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  1. #811
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    If we must...

    Fair or not is all subjective. Our nation was founded "under God", as in the Christian God, not Allah or Buddha. If Muslims and Buddhists wanted better representation under the law they should have fought their own revolution.

    Freedom of Religion is one of the first few amendments, so probably pretty important to those who drafted our constitution, whether they were religious or not. And you must bear in mind it was THE reason many chose to fight; to worship freely. 230 years ago religion informed most every aspect of our culture, it's only in the last 30 years we've moved to a more secular society.

    These are simple facts, not judgments or opinions. My personal beliefs (pro-traditional marriage, NOT anti-gay marriage, pro-life with reasonable exceptions, worried as **** over our debt load) are very much mainstream. When you're all 42 it might be different.

    Anyway, 150-word blog posts in a sports forum lend very little nuance. I am nowhere near as "extreme" as my words in black and white might make it seem. I'm very open-minded and open to change (I've accepted VORP, haven't I?) and certainly more than the sum of my parts, as I think most of us are.

    Regardless, I'll be off this topic for the foreseeable future.
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  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    If we must...

    Fair or not is all subjective. Our nation was founded "under God", as in the Christian God, not Allah or Buddha. If Muslims and Buddhists wanted better representation under the law they should have fought their own revolution.

    Freedom of Religion is one of the first few amendments, so probably pretty important to those who drafted our constitution, whether they were religious or not. And you must bear in mind it was THE reason many chose to fight; to worship freely. 230 years ago religion informed most every aspect of our culture, it's only in the last 30 years we've moved to a more secular society.

    These are simple facts, not judgments or opinions. My personal beliefs (pro-traditional marriage, NOT anti-gay marriage, pro-life with reasonable exceptions, worried as **** over our debt load) are very much mainstream. When you're all 42 it might be different.

    Anyway, 150-word blog posts in a sports forum lend very little nuance. I am nowhere near as "extreme" as my words in black and white might make it seem. I'm very open-minded and open to change (I've accepted VORP, haven't I?) and certainly more than the sum of my parts, as I think most of us are.

    Regardless, I'll be off this topic for the foreseeable future.
    As an erstwhile American historian, I can assure you that this is not factually correct.

    While you could possibly argue that there has been a recent increase in frustration and intolerance for religion, the period from 2000 to now is the most god-evoking time in modern American history.

    Periods in the 1920's-40's and the 1960's are two examples of times that were definitively more god-less than now.

    Generally speaking, not much has changed from a religious perspective. There has been little gain/loss between the religionist and secular camps in the past 120 years. The only thing that has changed is the vitriol between the two camps, which makes the divide more stark.

    What you're observing is cognitive dissonance. Just as we say "this is the most polarized political moment" (not close to true), we have a habit of conflating today when yesterday was more of the same.
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  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    If we must...

    Fair or not is all subjective. Our nation was founded "under God", as in the Christian God, not Allah or Buddha. If Muslims and Buddhists wanted better representation under the law they should have fought their own revolution.

    Freedom of Religion is one of the first few amendments, so probably pretty important to those who drafted our constitution, whether they were religious or not. And you must bear in mind it was THE reason many chose to fight; to worship freely. 230 years ago religion informed most every aspect of our culture, it's only in the last 30 years we've moved to a more secular society.


    These are simple facts, not judgments or opinions.
    Again, our nation was not founded "under God" or the Christian God. Most of the founding fathers who are constantly idolized, refer to God from the perspective of Deism. Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, etc. have all outright condemned Christianity basically saying it was detrimental. I already outlined where religion is mentioned in the Constitution and its context in my previous post and none of it mentions a nation Under God.

    You also are continuing to refer to the American Revolution and how it was for religious freedom. That is not a fact as its just no correct. The colonies were not allowed to print their own legal tender, were not allowed their own economy to flourish, were forced under autocratic rule from across an ocean, and forced to pay taxes without representation. Those are all reasons a revolution was fought. Religion may have played a minor role, but England had very little control over what religions were practiced in the colonies so there was very little persecution. Pilgrims were the ones fleeing from religious persecution, while the American Revolution was a war for independence.

    The Government was always intended to be a secular entity that allowed people to worship in their own manner, not one where decisions are governed by the whims of certain believers.

  4. #814
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    I just saw a bit of Who Wants to be a Millionaire. Cheech (from Cheech and Chong) was asked a racing question that could simplified to - what is 500 divided by 2.5?

    He had to ask the audience...

    Only 76% got it right...

    What the **** guys?
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  5. #815
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    People who don't value education.

    Props.LgnD.

  6. #816
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    That barely qualifies as education...they teach that in 3rd grade once you figure out the multiplication tables.

    I'm not sure how you stumble through life not being able to solve that. How much of our GDP is lost because people can't answer a question like that?
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  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    That barely qualifies as education...they teach that in 3rd grade once you figure out the multiplication tables.

    I'm not sure how you stumble through life not being able to solve that. How much of our GDP is lost because people can't answer a question like that?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steven..._b_150933.html

    I think this is even worse.

    Props.LgnD.

  8. #818
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    You know...

    "Editor's note: This post is a satire."

    Right?
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  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    That barely qualifies as education...they teach that in 3rd grade once you figure out the multiplication tables.

    I'm not sure how you stumble through life not being able to solve that. How much of our GDP is lost because people can't answer a question like that?
    Look at the HS graduation drop out rates, and then look at those who choose to not attend college. So....those simple structures they once possessed are now long forgotten. Native Americans & Hispanics in America fall into this category in America. There kids are smarter than then at one point, and the process repeats itself.

    You can't be serious, you really expect Cheech Marin to know what 500 divided by 2.5 is on the spot. You're too tuned to yourself and your mechanisms. You're some white male with an education who studies economics. Are you "supposed" to assume some hippie actor from the 80's can retain knowledge that you (yourself) comprehend and know as "common sense" in a shorter time span?

  10. #820
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    Cheech I get. He's an actor. I expect actors to be able to read and make facial expressions.

    I do expect something more like 95% of the audience to know very basic arithmetic. How do they shop for food?
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  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    You know...

    "Editor's note: This post is a satire."

    Right?
    Wow, I missed that.

    But I believe I had heard somewhere that something like a fifth of Americans couldn't locate the US in a map.

    Props.LgnD.

  12. #822
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    95% of the audience that watches "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"?

    Basic cable, I bet most use coupons. Buy 1 get 1 free.

  13. #823
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    It's just the people who go to the studio. So they presumably have some money since they're in NYC in the first place. And wealth is a good proxy for education.
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  14. #824
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    Oh....you're talking about the audience for the show. That's different.

    Wealth should equate to a good education, but I think that statement is going downhill. Considering socialites, and children of the power class can be dumb as a doornail, but be the executive producer of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire".

  15. #825
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsw3TILXXBk

    That was epic. I remember watching it live.

    Props.LgnD.

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