NBA D-League (Iowa Energy)

[mgjohnson7851]

Wikipedia says Stone is back in the D league. Did he just get sent back there?

les hope so... he is awful!

[DenButsu]

He might as well. Only 13 players can be listed as active, and he's definitely the first of the 15 to be inactive unless Ty or Dre is injured. And they're not, so better to have him on wheels getting more experience than attached to the bench.

And I think "awful" is too harsh. "Not ready yet" and "raw"... I'd take those.

[IgglesFanInCO]

ive liked what ive seen of him so far to be perfectly honest, best defender not named afflalo we have at either guard position, he is already very capable of being an nba backup pg, but sending him down was a smart move, better to get him a lot of experience so he can step up as the back up next year when miller walks

[moonchild32]

les hope so... he is awful!

I don't think so. He's a guy with very few minutes of playing time. He didn't have the opportunity to prove himself. He could have some more minutes with weaker teams recently, which didn't happen.
Nuggets need a PG that can give the assists, be solid on defence and occasionaly hit some 3's. So far Lawson has been inconcisent, Miller is too old for being the primary PG (and who probably will walk this summer), so nuggets definetly need a new PG.

[IgglesFanInCO]

I don't think so. He's a guy with very few minutes of playing time. He didn't have the opportunity to prove himself. He could have some more minutes with weaker teams recently, which didn't happen.
Nuggets need a PG that can give the assists, be solid on defence and occasionaly hit some 3's. So far Lawson has been inconcisent, Miller is too old for being the primary PG (and who probably will walk this summer), so nuggets definetly need a new PG.

ya miller is old and will be walking, ya stone is young raw and unproven, but saying we need a new pg when we have ty? thats crazy, yes he has been inconsistent, but thats a team thing, behind AAA he has been our second most consistent player, teams are planning against him now and he has to learn how to deal with that but he is young and improving and has star potential, give him a chance to adapt to the new learning curve before calling for his head

[moonchild32]

I didnt actually say he should be traded or something. I just said that Nuggets need a second (and young) point guard. And in that respect, Stone should be used more.

[IgglesFanInCO]

I didnt actually say he should be traded or something. I just said that Nuggets need a second (and young) point guard. And in that respect, Stone should be used more.

Oh sorry my bad, i misinterpreted what you said haha, but ya, after this year miller will walk hoping to find a starting job and the nuggets will probably either draft another pg or if Stone continues to develop he might be ready for that bigger role, I could definitely see us going PG with our 1st round pick though, only because we really dont have any longterm needs at any positions, maybe another PF but thats all i could think of

[iGerman]

I say we package our first with Andersen and get his contract out.

[DenButsu]

I say we package our first with Andersen and get his contract out.

Gotta disagree bigtime with that. Bird can still produce, and there could be teams out there, especially contenders, who might pick him up for frontcourt depth. Also we still have our amnesty to use.

At any rate, no way is his contract enough of a liability to warrant dumping a first. Think of it this way, Lawson wasn't a lottery pick. Would you package him with Bird and ship them out just to get cap relief?

[mgjohnson7851]

I don't think so. He's a guy with very few minutes of playing time. He didn't have the opportunity to prove himself. He could have some more minutes with weaker teams recently, which didn't happen.
Nuggets need a PG that can give the assists, be solid on defence and occasionaly hit some 3's. So far Lawson has been inconcisent, Miller is too old for being the primary PG (and who probably will walk this summer), so nuggets definetly need a new PG.

i would take an "inconsistant: ty over stone any day... watching him had been painful, and i guess i dont see why everyone likes him so much.

i understand hes only averaging 9 mins a game and only played in 16 games, but his 3 point % is 18%!!! he averages 2 points in those 9 mins, one turnover, and 2 assists.

when he was in there, our half court offense stalled, and made for some miserable basketball. he might be able to take over as our backup in a couple years, but make no mistake he will not ever be anywhere close to ty lawson

[mgjohnson7851]

I didnt actually say he should be traded or something. I just said that Nuggets need a second (and young) point guard. And in that respect, Stone should be used more.

ok i didnt see this post... but at any rate, stone does not have any business being in the NBA yet. if he keeps working hard tho he can become a decent backup... but he is definately a project player right now.

[iGerman]

Gotta disagree bigtime with that. Bird can still produce, and there could be teams out there, especially contenders, who might pick him up for frontcourt depth. Also we still have our amnesty to use.

At any rate, no way is his contract enough of a liability to warrant dumping a first. Think of it this way, Lawson wasn't a lottery pick. Would you package him with Bird and ship them out just to get cap relief?

I just don't see any needs, so why not take advantage of that and get some cap relief? Maybe get a pick down the road.

And speakin about Ty, I'm starting to doubt him. I think he has a team option after this year. We'l obviously accept that, but if he doesn't start producing consistantly next year, I'd like to go with another PG... that's just me.

But on the other hand, it's not like he's bad right now, it's just that he could be so much better. Maybe what he is right now is all our team really needs with all the depth.

[DenButsu]

I just don't see any needs, so why not take advantage of that and get some cap relief? Maybe get a pick down the road.

And speakin about Ty, I'm starting to doubt him. I think he has a team option after this year. We'l obviously accept that, but if he doesn't start producing consistantly next year, I'd like to go with another PG... that's just me.

But on the other hand, it's not like he's bad right now, it's just that he could be so much better. Maybe what he is right now is all our team really needs with all the depth.

No needs? As of the end of this season, here's our backcourt depth:

Ty/Stone
Afflalo/Hamilton/(Brewer - who's really not a 2)

I have high hopes for J-Ham, and modest hopes for Stone, but looking down the line even just to next season, let alone the next two or three, we'll need to add players to develop at both the guard positions.

Also, with the Nene trade, we now have no bigs who post up. I suspect one of either Moz or Koufos won't be around too much longer (and hopefully Bird as well). We're going to need at least one player in the frontcourt who can produce on offense. Gallo and Chandler will have some minutes at the 4 with Karl's small ball forever in effect. But Al's offensive game has a short half life from here on out, and we're gonna need a 4/5 who can legitimately put pressure on opposing defenses in half court situations.

This team is deep, but some players won't be around much longer, and others have limited potential in terms of development. Given that, we definitely have at least those^ three needs, and maybe even more if McGee doesn't pan out.

All of that said, the draft is not the only way to meet team needs, but a first round pick is a valuable asset (whether used in a trade or in the draft) that shouldn't be needlessly thrown away.

Bird's contract is really not that bad. He's playing 15.5 minutes per game this season, has a PER of 19.1, and per 36 minutes he's averaging 12.4 poitns and 11.1 rebounds. So let's look at some guys who are averaging between 14-25 minutes per game, have a PER of 16 or higher, and average 9+ points and 9+ rebounds per 36 minutes:

			2011-12	2012-13	2013-14	2014-15	
Samuel Dalembert	7000000	6700000			
Taj Gibson		1195680	2155811	(rookie contract)		
Tiago Splitter		3672000	3944000			
Kenneth Faried		1254720	1311240	1367640	2249768	(rookie contract)
DeJuan Blair		986000	1054000	(rookie contract)		
Chris Andersen		4234000	4526000	4818000		
Derrick Favors		4443360	4753320	6008196		
Kosta Koufos		2203792	3000000	3000000	3000000	
						
Average			3123694				
						
Average w/o Bird	2965079				
						
Average w/o 
  rookie contracts	4277448

If you look at the group of players with approximately similar production in similar playing time, you can first of all see that it's a pretty damn solid bunch (and the Nuggets have 3 of them).

If you look at the average of all their salaries, it might seem that Bird is getting overpaid. Bu even so, not by very much. Andersen's salary is only about $1.25 million over the average of all the other players, not including him. That's not too bad.

But moreover, since about half of those players are on rookie contracts, those numbers don't really speak to their true value. If you look at the average of all the players not on rookie contracts (Bird's included), his contract is slightly under that average.

All of this adds up to this: He's probably getting paid spot on his market value. Bigs who can block are at a premium in this league, so that inflates it somewhat to be sure.

After this summer, he'll only have two years left on that contract, which is just over $4 million. It's easy to see where a Miami Heat, or LA Lakers, or San Antonio Spurs might want to have him as part of their bench to add some energy, blocks and size to their depth for what really is not an unreasonable fee.

And even if the Nuggets don't end up trading him at all, he's not that big a hit on the payroll.

No way should we dump a first for nothing to get rid of a player who not only isn't much of a financial liability, but could conceivably even be a trade asset. No way.

[moonchild32]

Did i say that Miller should walk? I realize later how important he is to the team. So keep him.

[BRAVE KID]

Quincy Miller finally assigned to the D league.