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  1. #1
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    The Ryan Howard debate

    We have the age old question - is Ryan Howard an elite player? At The Hardball Times, that topic is debated today by two PSD alums. Stop by and share your thoughts.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...e-ryan-howard/
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  2. #2
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    Howard will consistently be towards the top of the league in RBI's, HR's, and K's

    I think he is border line elite. The .249 average is what makes him not elite for me. If he was batting .265-.270 right now, id put him in there.
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  3. #3
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    I can't think of a more pointless debate. I mean I can but that too would be pointless

    Would you trust a blind scout? Of course you wouldn't but that's what you do when you simply go by stats

    Some do not understand the ignore list.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTL View Post
    I can't think of a more pointless debate. I mean I can but that too would be pointless
    As long as people can avoid insults and stay civil I think it's one the best debates between traditional/sabr stats.

  5. #5
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    One of the best debates on one's definition of the word "elite" Maybe if it were for a player coming up on free agency or something of more relevance but this is just a pointless debate.
    Last edited by RTL; 09-22-2011 at 11:23 AM.

    Would you trust a blind scout? Of course you wouldn't but that's what you do when you simply go by stats

    Some do not understand the ignore list.

  6. #6
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    Elite?

    In 2006 he was near elite.

    RBI? How about OBP? How about SLG? He's been going downhill since 2006. If he was getting paid $8M a year he'd be fine.

    He's not in the top 5 1B in the ML, in fact he barely scrapes into the top 10 since 2007. If we isolate on just '10 and '11, he may in fact be out of the top 10.

    His contract will be seen as an albatross sooner rather then later. He appears to be in decline, early, like many large sluggers.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  7. #7
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    This has been discussed ad nauseum in the Phillies forum, but my 2 cents is this;

    Any guy that averages 40HR 120RBI is elite. Period.

    It's not his fault RAJ gave him a 5/125 contract. Yeah, I wish he played better defense and hit for a higher average, but when he's hot there is no more feard slugger in the game.

    It is worrisome that his #'s have steadily declined the last few seasons, but I believe part of that to be a product of the lineup surrounding him not being quite as cosistent as in 06-08. He's also battled some nagging injuires the last few years.

    Regardless, is he great? Probably not. Is he really good? Certainly.

    It is one of the great debates in the sport.
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  8. #8
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    not even close to elite. Honestly, is he even a top 75-100 player in baseball?

    I am not so sure.

    And please dont ask me to name 100 better I dont have the time or desire

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    This has been discussed ad nauseum in the Phillies forum, but my 2 cents is this;

    Any guy that averages 40HR 120RBI is elite. Period.
    With his table setters? BTW, he is averaging 36.3 HR the past 3 years, and 120 RBI's when the prior 3 years he was at 144 per year.

    It's not his fault RAJ gave him a 5/125 contract.
    Who said fault, I'm talking value.

    when he's hot there is no more feard slugger in the game.
    he's not hot that much because he is NOWHERE near the best hitter in baseball these last 3 years.


    In fact in MLB each year the past 3 years, he's not even in the top 10 in any year in Offensive WAR, but Votto, Berkman, Cabrera, Gonzalez, Pujols, Fielder, Youkilis have all appeared at least once.

    The only time he got on was in 9th place in 2006. Feared? Maybe that he'll strike out.

    If you like counting stats he's your guy. If you like rate stats, he has a lot of holes.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 09-22-2011 at 11:58 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  10. #10
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    Hes good for the Phillies. Elite? Not even close. I dont even know if he has one elite tool anymore(power)

  11. #11
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    He's close to elite but until his average goes up a bit more he won't be elite IMO.
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  12. #12
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    40/130

    Quote Originally Posted by todu82 View Post
    He's close to elite but until his average goes up a bit more he won't be elite IMO.
    I don't care what your batting avg. is if you average 40 HR and 130 RBI a season for your whole career, then you ARE ELITE.

  13. #13
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    Dunn/Howard

    Adam Dunn is sort of similar to Howard. But Dunn's career season average is 38 HR and 96 RBI, whereas Howard's numbers are 45 HR and 137 RBI's. So Howard is elite.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTuzSea View Post
    As long as people can avoid insults and stay civil I think it's one the best debates between traditional/sabr stats.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTL View Post
    One of the best debates on one's definition of the word "elite" Maybe if it were for a player coming up on free agency or something of more relevance but this is just a pointless debate.
    Aubrey Huff is elite.

  15. #15
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    Huff is elite when it comes to wearing thongs.

    Would you trust a blind scout? Of course you wouldn't but that's what you do when you simply go by stats

    Some do not understand the ignore list.

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