Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





View Poll Results: Who's better?

Voters
84. You may not vote on this poll
  • Adrian Gonzalez

    29 34.52%
  • Miguel Cabrera

    55 65.48%
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 93
  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,028
    vCash
    1500
    It hasn't stopped him producing at a HOF pace for the first eight years of his career. I doubt it will stop anytime soon.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,497
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by i.got.the.nutz View Post
    It hasn't stopped him producing at a HOF pace for the first eight years of his career. I doubt it will stop anytime soon.
    He's already burned his chances, next time he gets arrested, or put away to dry out - he'll get real time, and they won't pay attention to his schedule. Plus he's obese or nearly so. That always cuts down guys early too.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    422
    vCash
    1500
    Other then Pujols, these are probly the 2 i'd pick to build a franchise around. I'd give the edge to Cabrera however.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,028
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    He's already burned his chances, next time he gets arrested, or put away to dry out - he'll get real time, and they won't pay attention to his schedule. Plus he's obese or nearly so. That always cuts down guys early too.
    Either way it will be interesting to see how both their careers pan out. I agree that off field issues can hurt a professional athlete's career on the field, but it doesn't seem to bother Cabrera in his case.

    For the next three years, I expect Cabrera to put up better numbers than Gonzalez.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,497
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by i.got.the.nutz View Post
    For the next three years, I expect Cabrera to put up better numbers than Gonzalez.
    Unless Gonzalez has shoulder problems he can't shake, by raw numbers I expect Gonzalez to take the next 5 on average, and most of the individual ones.

    Adjusted numbers would be closer, until you add in the defense.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    53,292
    vCash
    1450
    Wow talk about a ****ing comparison. I honestly had a real hard time with this one and for me I just took the guy I liked more in Miggy.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Heart of Long Island
    Posts
    7,312
    vCash
    1500
    id rather have agon, on account of his much better defense

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Boston/Florida
    Posts
    9,244
    vCash
    1500
    its a coin flip IMO
    Proud to be PSD's Chris Kelly!
    The Chris Kelly Watch: 3 G /0 A/ 3 Pts / 2 +/-


    He went to the top self where Momma keeps the Peanut Butter & Where i hid the Porno's

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    15,173
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    He's already burned his chances, next time he gets arrested, or put away to dry out - he'll get real time, and they won't pay attention to his schedule. Plus he's obese or nearly so. That always cuts down guys early too.
    Miggy is not obese. If you want to say that about Prince Fielder I definitely would not disagree.... but Miggy is just a gigantic/muscular dude with some extra fat. Hardly obese. This picture was taken just a few days ago.

    http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/marli...pCMAER-3A1.jpg

    If you think that is obese we just have different definitions I guess.
    Last edited by americaspasttim; 01-26-2012 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Posting Images not Permitted
    2014 Adopt-A-Lion: Golden Tate

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    955
    vCash
    1500
    It's Gonzalez. When you adjust for the fact that he's been hitting in Petco their offense is pretty similar. Gonzalez has a 140 OPS+ to Cabrera's 149 OPS+. Gonzalez is an elite defensive player though while Cabrera is terrible defensively.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    15,173
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by MmmRocks View Post
    It's Gonzalez. When you adjust for the fact that he's been hitting in Petco their offense is pretty similar. Gonzalez has a 140 OPS+ to Cabrera's 149 OPS+. Gonzalez is an elite defensive player though while Cabrera is terrible defensively.
    Sure, if we were comparing Miggy to Gonzalez from when he was on the Padres. But we're not. He was playing in one of the best offensive ballparks in all of MLB last season and his numbers from last season were still well below what Cabrera has done the past two seasons.
    Last edited by FortDetroit; 01-26-2012 at 06:15 PM.
    2014 Adopt-A-Lion: Golden Tate

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    7,854
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    Sure, if we were comparing Miggy to Gonzalez from when he was on the Padres. But we're not. He was playing in one of the best offensive ballparks in all of MLB last season and his numbers from last season were still well below what Cabrera has done the past two seasons.
    Fenway is not a great hitters park. And Miggy can't play D.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,497
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    Sure, if we were comparing Miggy to Gonzalez from when he was on the Padres. But we're not. He was playing in one of the best offensive ballparks in all of MLB last season and his numbers from last season were still well below what Cabrera has done the past two seasons.
    Let's see, late to ST, shoulder surgery, new league...

    In 2011 using BR's Runs created on offense and runs saved on defense we get:

    AG: 135+15 = 150
    MC: 149-08 = 141

    Hmmm....

    Fenway is big for high BA (least foul territory in MLB), and 2B's, but it's not good for HR's.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    15,173
    vCash
    1500
    Overall Fenway is a top offensive park (top 5), regardless of if it suppresses homers or not.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...rian-gonzalez/

    It looks like Fenway Park is helping Gonzalez a good amount, as only two of his home runs and doubles this season would have been home runs at PETCO. You also can tell that Gonzalez hasn’t hit any deep fly balls to center field in Fenway — regardless whether they’re home runs or doubles (the same goes for fly outs, even though they’re not on this map). Many of those doubles to short left field look like outs in PETCO; at Fenway, they bounce off the Green Monster.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb...ory?id=4673277

    Hit Tracker analysis of Gonzalez's 2009 home runs suggests he would lose a handful of line-drive homers at Fenway, but he could be expected to gain back some home runs from shorter, high flies to left that would clear the Monster but fall short at Petco.

    "Gonzalez's home run total would not be strongly affected by a move to Boston," Rybarczyk said. "The main difference in his production would be an increase in doubles. Virtually all of the home runs that the Green Monster takes away turn into doubles, and the shorter distance to the left-field wall in Boston will also turn some routine fly balls into wall-scraping doubles."
    http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/po...-bat-in-fenway

    Adrian Gonzalez rates right alongside Albert Pujols and Ryan Howard as one of the game's pre-eminent power-hitting first basemen. This, despite the fact that he played half of his games over the last five seasons in the pitcher friendly Petco Park. If Gonzalez had played in a hitter's park (like Fenway Park), his numbers would have been gargantuan.
    My only point is that he doesn't have the excuse that he's playing in an extreme pitchers park anymore because he is out of Petco. And even then, his numbers still do not stack up with Miggy across the board. Miggy had a slightly higher batting average, significantly higher OBP (+.038) and SL% (+.038), and hence a better OPS (+.076).
    Last edited by FortDetroit; 01-26-2012 at 10:49 PM.
    2014 Adopt-A-Lion: Golden Tate

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    39,497
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    Overall Fenway is a top offensive park (top 5), regardless of if it suppresses homers or not.
    My only point is that he doesn't have the excuse that he's playing in an extreme pitchers park anymore because he is out of Petco. And even then, his numbers still do not stack up with Miggy across the board. Miggy had a slightly higher batting average, significantly higher OBP (+.038) and SL% (+.038), and hence a better OPS (+.076).
    Yes, Fenway is an excellent offensive park. I am well versed in Agon's hitting charts since 2008. In Fenway his best years will look like: .315/.415/.615 with 50 2B's and 34 HR's. Since he'll be in Boston 7 years in his prime and the beginning of his decline years which maps closely with Jimmy Foxx, if healthy, I have Agon exceeding Foxx's 7 years in Boston, he already had a fine start on that. Not bad, he could be the best 1B of a very old franchise. Miggy going to outdo Greenberg or Cash? He's not even half way yet according to rWAR.

    I don't think Agon needs an excuse or wants one. He goes out and plays, and causes a minimum amount of trouble. Given the mammoth deals that Howard, Fielder, Cabrera, Albert, and Teixera have - I'm confident over the next 5 years Agon will either be #1 or #2 in WAR per $ paid out of that group.

    And yet Agon's numbers do stack up because he can field well and Miggy can't, according to the last thing I heard out of Detroit, Miggy will be the DH, so that will hurt his value even more if true.

    Agon has a 19.7 rWAR over the last 3 years, 18.4 for Cabrera. Usually the last 3 years are considered the best predictor of the next few. Hmmm.

    Agon hopefully has his shoulder together and his protection: Youk, Ortiz, Ross together for '12.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-27-2012 at 09:55 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •