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  1. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Baseball is too much of a sport to be called a business, and too much of a business to be called a sport. - Philip Wrigley
    I agree! lol

  2. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraiff View Post
    When we talk about inequity...one has to be reminded, that over the past 10 seasons, 25 of 30 MLB teams have appeared in the playoffs. 9 teams have won the World Series (only Boston twice) and 14 teams (out of 30) have appeared in the fall classic. That does not appear like inequity to me.While I haven't completely checked it out.. I think that would match up easily, or surpass any of the so called leveled sports...with "pseudo" salary caps.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again.

    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

    True parity in competitive pro sports is about every team in the league being able to play on an even economic playing field and every team economically being able to do what every other teams does. Currently this is NOT true in MLB. Very few teams can compete economically with the Yankees, Red Sox, or Phillies. Their home media markets simply cannot provide that level of support economically.



    Attendance and gate receipts are not the issue. Local media revenue is where the real inequity is.The spread from top to bottom there, easily exceeds 100 million dollars per year. However, during the last MLB labor dispute, when Bud Selig suggested that local media revenue be shared 50/50 with the visiting team (after expenses) it was voted down soundly Only a few teams voted for it, including the New York Yankees. The middle tier teams...particularly the one's with the worst businessmen were the most adamant in their opposition.
    I would agree that sharing local media revenues would go a long way towards evening the playing field. But as you point out, very few teams support it. Actually, I'm a bit surprised that more teams don't support it.

    Heck, I'd suggest that all local media revenues should be thrown into the same pot as national TV revenues and then the pot should be divided equally. But that has absolutely zero chance of passing.

    Let's face it. The reason that the Yankees can spend so much money isn't their gate receipts. It's the massive income that they derive from the YES Network. But very few other media markets can produce that level of income. I don't think that the Red Sox NESN network produces that much, though I'm sure that it does a good job of staying close. One would think that if the Dodgers (under new ownership) was smart, they'd set up their own YES-like network to broadcast Dodger games and rake in the money. And one would think that LA ought to be a big enough market to make the Dodgers an economic powerhouse on the West Coast. But teams like the Royals or the Pirates or the Rays can't do that. Their markets just aren't that large and can't produce that level of revenue.



    The greatest vulgarity of it all is.. most of the owners who have made tens of millions of dollars on the equity of their teams (almost all of them).. some hundreds of millions of dollars...would surely support, not having to pay their players as much as they do...through the passage of a salary cap. Then instead of having business vision they could be protected by what fans perceive as the vision of the level playing field...through a salary cap.

    The rich get richer.
    Oh puh-leeeeze. Cut this left-wing, oh-woe-is-me, class warfare crap.

  3. #543
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    Baseball almost more than any other sport, does not have to worry about "parity". Different teams win almost every year.

    And to be honest, if the Pirates refuse to spend their money to compete, or keep the amazing players they mold, thats on them. If the Rays cant get anyone to come watch them play, thats also on them.

    The owner of the A's is what, the 9th richest owner in all of sports? His lack of investment in the team, players, a stadium, etc, is his own downfall.

    The Redsox, one of the "evils" you are describing, didnt win a championship for what 70 years, and it wasnt from lack of spending.

    I know its over simplifying it, but if a team has money, uses it to win, then actually does win, and that breeds more money, I dont have a problem.

    Profit sharing sucks, studies show teams like the Pirates take the 30 million they get from it, or whatever the exact number is, and they pocket it. **** them.

  4. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingPosey View Post
    Baseball almost more than any other sport, does not have to worry about "parity". Different teams win almost every year.
    Posey, you're wrong. The fact that different teams seem to win regularly is completely irrelevant to the question of parity. parity is about having an even playing field economically so that every team is playing the same "economic game" when building their teams. Right now, MLB is like playing Monopoly except that 1 or 2 of the players in the game gets 10 times whatever money the cards say he should get. Would that player have a huge advantage? Of course he would. And that's the point. MLB is a rigged game because a small number of teams play be different off-season economic rules than all the others.


    And to be honest, if the Pirates refuse to spend their money to compete, or keep the amazing players they mold, thats on them. If the Rays cant get anyone to come watch them play, thats also on them.
    The Pirates know that putting more money into their payroll won't produce any real on-field results. And IIRC I read where they're in an argument about what's a legitmate use of revenue sharing money. I read where they (or maybe some other team, don't recall) uses revenue sharing money to pay down debts (like the stadium mortgage). I would NOT call that "pocketing the money". Not be a long shot. It may not be "sexy" from a fan's perspective, but it's a legit use of the revenue sharing money IMO. It's money being put towards "the team", since paying a team's business debts is part of the big picture.


    The owner of the A's is what, the 9th richest owner in all of sports? His lack of investment in the team, players, a stadium, etc, is his own downfall.
    More ignorant BS. The wealth of owners is an irrelevant point and grossly ignorant argument from a business perspective. Team owners are businessmen. They're not there to dump bucket loads of cash out of their wallets to buy players and build stadiums just so that you can get your jollies. They're in it to make a buck, just like any other business. They may make an "investment" in the product from time to time, but in general they're going to always try to live within the means of the business, i.e. within the revenues that the team produces. This rich owner argument is thoroughly ignorant and childish, and shows no understanding of how businesses operate.


    The Redsox, one of the "evils" you are describing, didnt win a championship for what 70 years, and it wasnt from lack of spending.
    86 years. And in case you didn't notice my avatar, I'm a Red Sox fan.

    I don't think that they're evil. They have little choice when it comes to spending a lot of money. They're in the same division as the Yankees. If the Sox want to stay competitive with the Yanks and be a world series contender year in and year out, as their fan base demands, they have to spend a lot of money. Thankfully for Sox fans, the Boston/New England media market is quite large, the fan base rabid, and the NESN network brings in a lot of revenue to help fund the team.


    I know its over simplifying it, but if a team has money, uses it to win, then actually does win, and that breeds more money, I dont have a problem.

    Profit sharing sucks, studies show teams like the Pirates take the 30 million they get from it, or whatever the exact number is, and they pocket it. **** them.
    They don't pocket it. They use it for things other than free agent salaries, like paying team debts and paying for amateur talent in the draft and the international free agent market.

  5. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Posey, you're wrong. The fact that different teams seem to win regularly is completely irrelevant to the question of parity. parity is about having an even playing field economically so that every team is playing the same "economic game" when building their teams. Right now, MLB is like playing Monopoly except that 1 or 2 of the players in the game gets 10 times whatever money the cards say he should get. Would that player have a huge advantage? Of course he would. And that's the point. MLB is a rigged game because a small number of teams play be different off-season economic rules than all the others.




    The Pirates know that putting more money into their payroll won't produce any real on-field results. And IIRC I read where they're in an argument about what's a legitmate use of revenue sharing money. I read where they (or maybe some other team, don't recall) uses revenue sharing money to pay down debts (like the stadium mortgage). I would NOT call that "pocketing the money". Not be a long shot. It may not be "sexy" from a fan's perspective, but it's a legit use of the revenue sharing money IMO. It's money being put towards "the team", since paying a team's business debts is part of the big picture.




    More ignorant BS. The wealth of owners is an irrelevant point and grossly ignorant argument from a business perspective. Team owners are businessmen. They're not there to dump bucket loads of cash out of their wallets to buy players and build stadiums just so that you can get your jollies. They're in it to make a buck, just like any other business. They may make an "investment" in the product from time to time, but in general they're going to always try to live within the means of the business, i.e. within the revenues that the team produces. This rich owner argument is thoroughly ignorant and childish, and shows no understanding of how businesses operate.




    86 years. And in case you didn't notice my avatar, I'm a Red Sox fan.

    I don't think that they're evil. They have little choice when it comes to spending a lot of money. They're in the same division as the Yankees. If the Sox want to stay competitive with the Yanks and be a world series contender year in and year out, as their fan base demands, they have to spend a lot of money. Thankfully for Sox fans, the Boston/New England media market is quite large, the fan base rabid, and the NESN network brings in a lot of revenue to help fund the team.




    They don't pocket it. They use it for things other than free agent salaries, like paying team debts and paying for amateur talent in the draft and the international free agent market.
    lol, how would the pirates not produce onfield results by retaining talent? Thats just stupid.

    And I dont know what you think you know, but some teams, especially the Pirates pocket their revenue sharing, and turn a profit because of it, and dont spend it on talent because they have no incentive to win. Thats FACT, so stop being completely misinformed.

    And if these owners are "businessmen", then obviously they get the point of investing to recieve fouture dividends. You go on to say ur a Sox fan and they spend money because they HAVE TO TO COMPETE, AND THE FANBASE WANTS IT, and then you say " They're not there to dump bucket loads of cash out of their wallets to buy players and build stadiums just so that you can get your jollies." Totally just ignoring whatever you said last to argue your next point.

    How is a nicer stadium, that isnt EXTREMELY outdated, awful for baseball, or in a terrible part of town, coupled with adding and keeping product the people want to see, and expressing interest in your fans aka the customers, not a smart move? I really wish you knew how absurd your words sound man, I just wanted to have a post just to speak on it, but your rude *** mouth coupled with your lack of anything credible made me have to respond.

    You are ridiculous dude, Im done talking with you. How can someone be so smug and self righteous, but not know what they are talking about? You just dont have much to say really. Well, anything with knowledge behind it, this wont go anywhere if we continue.
    Last edited by KingPosey; 08-22-2011 at 04:29 AM.

  6. #546
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    crucis you should just sig it

    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  7. #547
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    Back to the topic though, I just dont agree with profit sharing in principle, because a lot of lower market teams (some by their own decisions), dont use the money for anything but to turn a profit from it, which isnt the point of it in the first place. I also dont agree in principle, to the Orioles getting money from they Yankees when they come to play them in NY. The split that the visiting teams gets now is enough.

  8. #548
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    As much as I have wanted a salary cap in the past, I've changed on that stance after watching these teams shell out a ton of money in the draft the past couple years. It's about time they draft the best available player, opposed to the best talent they can afford or sign.

  9. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariner4life View Post
    Some people think that the yankees deserve to spend more money because they earned it by past winnings. This is simply not true. N.Y. has the largest economy in the u.s and the second highest in the world behind Tokyo. A lot of the money that they are able to generate has nothing to do with baseball at all. Things are just not the same there. All the high rollers are there. Most industries will thrive in N.Y. For example, how much does the average hair dresser make in K.C? How much does the average hairdresser make in N.Y.?
    I'm not saying the aren't smart. They are indeed. The yes network and the way they run their teams is far more superior than that of the mets.
    The mets for the most part are losers and don't have 10% the history the yankees have but can still spend in the top 5 when they want. Because the market can bear it!
    Give the yankees credit but if you think all there money comes from past success your romanticising the situation.
    You know what they say. Location, location, location!

    Many more times than not N.Y. will thrive better than not in all industries.
    Cost of living my friend. Salaries in either location is irrelevant considering the price differences in each location for housing, food, entertainment, etc.

  10. #550
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    Very insightful OP..Btw result are everything buddy that is all that matters

  11. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugbees View Post
    Very insightful OP..Btw result are everything buddy that is all that matters
    Yeah this is really what matters, results. The Cubs can spend 130 million a year, but they aren't winning anything anytime soon. The Yankees were #1 in payroll for the whole decade pretty much and only got 1 championship.

    Their may not be "parity" in baseball, but there is a "parity" in the results. The MLB has the best record of many teams making the playoffs and winning the World Series. What needs to be done is that teams that almost all of the revenue sharing money should go to PLAYERS, not the owners. If you want real parity then Major League Baseball needs to force the teams to use revenue sharing money on making their team better, not to pad the owners pockets.

  12. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post

    Let's face it. The reason that the Yankees can spend so much money isn't their gate receipts. It's the massive income that they derive from the YES Network. But very few other media markets can produce that level of income. I don't think that the Red Sox NESN network produces that much, though I'm sure that it does a good job of staying close. One would think that if the Dodgers (under new ownership) was smart, they'd set up their own YES-like network to broadcast Dodger games and rake in the money. And one would think that LA ought to be a big enough market to make the Dodgers an economic powerhouse on the West Coast. But teams like the Royals or the Pirates or the Rays can't do that. Their markets just aren't that large and can't produce that level of revenue.
    That's obviously part of it actually. The Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies all draw heavily to their stadium and have high ticket prices. I'm sure a good chunk of their revenue is gate receipts.

  13. #553
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    the real question is whether the ante for AFraud's poker game is higher in NY than in KC!


    /(jump off) soap box

  14. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by "Ace"ves View Post
    I never tried covering up that there was an advantage. I simply stated that having a larger salary doesn't = winning. Larger salary = competing

    And thats a horrible example!! You are leaving out entitlement. This is capitalism, not socialism. The head start wasn't given, it was earned. And as for those that "lose", sometimes they don't even "try" cause they are in a rebuilding year. Stop with examples that make no sense and do not relate.

    And I agree it is MLB, not the NFL and not a race.
    There we are folks. The Yankee view in this country.

    Hence why these discussions are such a waste of time sometimes. This is sports we are talking about here, not politics. You all feel you are entitled to win every year and to do so you will take that advantage over everyone else. Sorry, but that is not what sports should be about. The Mara Family knew that with New York Giants and look at what the league has become. They have sacrificed their own personal dominance for the benefit for the entire league which we all can agree shreds every league in this country. Believe it or not, my family in these smaller cities of KC & PITT who love baseball realistically know their only chance for championship is their NFL team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crucis View Post
    Parity is about equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

  15. #555
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    Here we go again

    I think I'll just take a seat and watch.

    [munch, munch, munch]


    Had to be done! Go T-Rex

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