Lockout info/News

[Pacers_4Live]

2011-12 82 season Games Plus 2011-12 8 Pre-season Games.... Let's Go Pacerssssss

[matthollabak]

NEW YORK -- With perhaps days left to avoid further damage to the NBA schedule, negotiators for owners and players are talking again in hopes of ending the lockout.

The sides returned Monday in small groups after taking a day off following talks Friday and Saturday. The weekend passed without the "enormous consequences" commissioner David Stern warned of without significant progress toward a new labor deal. But they would likely come this week without an agreement.

The sides will meet again Tuesday with their full bargaining committees, with perhaps some star players again invited. With the regular season scheduled to start Nov. 1, there is little time left before cancellations would become necessary, though Stern said there would be none Monday.

Training camps would have opened Monday, but those were postponed and 43 preseason games scheduled for Oct. 9-15 have already been canceled.

Stern said last week there needed to be progress during the weekend, but little came. The league called off the remainder of its preseason schedule on Oct. 6 in 1998, when the regular season was reduced to 50 games because of a work stoppage. But Stern is already cautioning of what could happen beyond just the loss of more exhibition play.

"When you start losing regular-season games, on top of losses in the exhibition season, you have two sort of parties to an agreement that have been financially wounded in some way, those being the players and the owners," Stern said Saturday. "Not to mention the extraordinary number of people who depend on our game for their livelihood. And those are the consequences that I worry about because then ... positions harden when regular-season games start to be lost on top of the exhibition season, which is not inconsequential."

Nearly all the talk Saturday during a seven-hour meeting, the longest of the lockout, was focused on the salary-cap system. Stern indicated afterward there was a little progress on that, but the sides are still far apart on the split of revenues, with Stern saying there is a "a pretty broad gap on both."

Union executive director Billy Hunter said owners are still calling for the players' guarantee of revenue to drop to 46 percent after they were guaranteed 57 percent in the previous deal. But he said assumed it would be possible to start the season on time if the sides agreed to a deal by the middle of this week.

Well it's down to make or break time.

[jacquewho?]

This is going to be a messy lockout.

[cardinals1226]

NBA commissioner David Stern announced on Tuesday that the league would cancel the rest of its preseason schedule effective immediately and expected to cancel the first two weeks of the 2011-2012 regular season on Monday, Oct. 10, as a result of a lack of progress in ongoing labor negotiations between the league and the National Basketball Players Association.

"Today we will be announcing the cancellation of the rest of the exhibition season and by Monday we will have no choice but to cancel the first two weeks of the season," Stern said. Back on Sept. 23, the NBA announced the cancellation of the first two weeks of the preseason.

The NBA's regular season was supposed to start on Nov. 1.

NBPA executive director Billy Hunter said that the two sides do not currently have any further negotiating meetings scheduled and that the next meetings might be "a month or two months" away.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...48484/32508152

[matthollabak]

So we start cutting into the season if the deal isn't signed today. I've heard that the players won't even go as low as 53% and the owners wont even talk about a deal that isn't 50/50.

How many think we will see any basketball this year? I have been holding hope, but am starting to lean towards the fact that we may not see a game.

It kind of bothers me that this is the sticking point. Until last year the players were guaranteed 57% and if the total salaries did not add up to 57% they got a bonus check, which really shouldn't happen anyway. Can't this be taken care of by players signing more lucrative contracts and not accepting less than market value for themselves? They really need to talk to vets taking less than market value for a chance at a ring, say if LBJ could have gotten more and decided to play for less why should the owners have to distribute that salary he gave up to sign a contract? In most other strikes/lockouts I sided with the players since they were fighting for something, some for player safety, some for retired players, some to just be paid what they were worth. In this case however the players are just being greedy and want to stay overpaid with their cash guaranteed...I would understand if they took some concessions like if they got over 50% of the revenue their contracts are like the NFL and not fully guaranteed but I haven't seen any reports of anything like that. The owners signed a horrible deal last time and I think the players are thinking they can dupe them again.

[Pacers_4Live]

2011-12 Season.....82 Games, Let's Go Pacers

Deal Close On New Mid-Level
Oct 10, 2011 4:45 PM EDT


The NBA and NBPA are close to an agreement on a new, shorter mid-level exception for free agents, according to a source.

Owners have sought a major reduction in the mid-level, which allows teams over the cap to sign free agents.

The two sides spent almost all of their five-plus hours of negotiations on Sunday on system issues, and not the split of Basketball-Related Income that the players will receive in the next CBA.



Read more: http://basketball.******.com/wiretap...#ixzz1aPwjKZVT

[matthollabak]

NBA cancelled the first 2 weeks of the season. Not happy about this at all, but if you didn't see this coming you have either been buying into Chris Sheridan's BS (I've posted many times my opinion on why he was the only one writing positive about the situation) or not paying attention to any of the happenings of the NBA lockout.

[cardinals1226]

NBA cancelled the first 2 weeks of the season. Not happy about this at all, but if you didn't see this coming you have either been buying into Chris Sheridan's BS (I've posted many times my opinion on why he was the only one writing positive about the situation) or not paying attention to any of the happenings of the NBA lockout.

2011-12 Season... 62 games. Plus no pre-season... Let's Go Pacers.

[Colts2180]

I dont know what to think anymore. Everytime I think there getting close they have a setback. This is like watching Bob Sanders thinking hes going to come back healthy and gets hurt again. Just dont know..

[matthollabak]

I dont know what to think anymore. Everytime I think there getting close they have a setback. This is like watching Bob Sanders thinking hes going to come back healthy and gets hurt again. Just dont know..

I'm not sure they've ever been close. There were many reports they were getting closer, but I can take a step to the south and say I'm closer to Mexico than I was...doesn't mean I'm almost there, it just means I took a step in the right direction. I wonder how long it will take the players to realize that many owners are losing less money right now than they were during the season last year? If there is one thing rich people hate it is losing money and I think they are digging in, so its up to the players to save the season.

I kind of laughed when I saw TJ Ford tweet about getting 30 some thousand people to retweet "Let us Play." Does TJ not realize that his 8.5 million guaranteed salary last year is a prime example of one of the main problems? They are either going to have to give up a guaranteed percentage or fully guaranteed contracts, and possibly both since I'm sure the owners don't feel the heat as bad since the threshold has been crossed with the first two weeks cancelled.

[matthollabak]

Hooray mediation and threats to start a new league run by the players. I'm curious as to what venues they would be renting out.

[Colts2180]

Players are so freaking greedy its unreal. These guys are spoiled little rich brats. 50-50 split and they turned it down?? Come on man. These greedy bastards are why so many have stopped watching the NBA in recent years.

[SteBO]

How are the players greedy when they've been the only side conceeding?

[matthollabak]

How are the players greedy when they've been the only side conceeding?

I am having a slow day at work so here is the long answer....

The owners started out wanting over 50% so they are also conceeding. The players raked the owners over the coals last time, that is why we have players like Rashard Lewis with a 20 or so million guaranteed contract, and TJ ford sitting on the inactive list making 8.5 million and not willing to accept a buyout, and teams losing money trying to compete for players with the 10 or so teams actually making money. So the players are in a place where they should be losing a lot more than the owners and conceeding more, since the owners are actually losing money.

This isn't the exact same situation but it comes close: I come from a town that was built on factories and unions. When the factory line workers and janitors start making more than engineers and front office people the factory becomes less and less profitable if it still is at all to the point it is more profitable to shut it down completely or move it, hence why they are all gone now. Unions get too powerful and think they have leverage they just don't and push too far into the profits. The same happened with the players union and the owners. The players got more and more forcing the owners profit margins down until it went into the red in many cases. Now the owners are happy to not have a season due to the fact that they are actually making money by not losing it as they would with a season. It has gotten to the point that the minimum teams are allowed to spend is getting close to operating costs of some of the low end teams. That is how at least I believe they are being greedy...The same reason the factories across the country starting closing down and/or moving, they can't make money and and a greedy union happy at the same time.

Here is a list of Basketball Related Income which they are fighting over.

What is included in Basketball Related Income (BRI)?

Basketball Related Income (BRI) essentially includes any income received by the NBA, NBA Properties or NBA Media Ventures. This includes:

Regular season gate receipts
Broadcast rights
Exhibition game proceeds
Playoff gate receipts
Novelty, program and concession sales (at the arena and in
team-identified stores within proximity of an NBA arena)
Parking
Proceeds from team sponsorships
Proceeds from team promotions
Arena club revenues
Proceeds from summer camps
Proceeds from non-NBA basketball tournaments
Proceeds from mascot and dance team appearances
Proceeds from beverage sale rights
40% of proceeds from arena signage
40% of proceeds from luxury suites
45% - 50% of proceeds from arena naming rights
Proceeds from other premium seat licenses
Proceeds received by NBA Properties, including international television,
sponsorships, revenues from NBA Entertainment, the All-Star Game, the
McDonald's Championship and other NBA special events.

The Bold ones confuse me. I understand players wanting 50% or more of the ticket sales and anything involving game day...but there are a few that baffle me. This isn't all the players fault since I'm sure they will take a share of whatever the owners will give them as they should, but some of it is a bit ridiculous.

I would love for the owners to ask for a 50% share of all the players endorsements, since the players are getting proceeds from the owners doing the same...If LBJ wants some of my McDonalds money I want some of his Nike money. This includes stadium signage, bevarage sale rights (basically coors, miller, Pepsi, Coke, and/or bud paying to sell in the stadium...I understand the sale of the beverages being part of the players money), team sponsorships (official hamburger of the Pacers) this I could see being the players if they use them in the commercials...but they don't ask for a share Fox sports midwest's advertising dollars so shouldn't that be a part of that deal?

Why are naming rights to stadiums even involved in this because shouldn't this be between the city and the owner? Usually the City owns the stadium so shouldn't the name be owned by the city and a good portion of the proceeds from the naming be given to the city?

Why should the players get a share of the cheerleaders and mascot appearances?

What exactly are non NBA basketball tournaments and why if they are non NBA should they get money from it? Is this any tourney that takes place in an NBA venue?

Basically I already think the Players have their hands too far into the owners and the league's pockets to begin with so they are asking for over half of things they shouldn't be getting in the first place, why don't the owners have their hands in the player's pockets? Honestly if I was an owner I'd be making that a another sticking point.

This all also doesn't include market value and players taking less than it. Say if LBJ or Wade could have gotten 2-3 million more a season that is their fault for not taking that chunk of the BRI. It may not look like a lot in the scheme of things, but if any player takes less than the max he could have gotten like say giving hometown discounts so his current team can sign him isn't that the players working against themselves in not maximizing their share of the BRI so why should the owners have to make up the rest? Also I'm pretty sure the players aren't going to have to give back to the owners if they go over whatever they eventually agree upon? The owners have to do this if they are under 57% (I think that is what it is at) under the current rules. Shouldn't the Union be regulating how low of a salary top players can accept for this reason or at least count their market value towards the BRI rather than the lesser salary they accepted? I think that alone would go a long way in getting the BRI to where the union wants it. This would also level the playing field so players couldn't take a pay cut going to desirable locations forcing smaller teams to overpay for players services just to get them there.

[Colts2180]

Exactly Matt. I couldnt of said it better myself. Players are ruining the NBA experience and making it hard for teams to make a profit.