Lockout info/News

[Pacers_4Live]

2011-12 82 season Games Plus 2011-12 8 Pre-season Games.... Let's Go Pacerssssss

[matthollabak]

2011-12 82 season Games Plus 2011-12 8 Pre-season Games.... Let's Go Pacerssssss

Wow you are just trying to bait now aren't you? This is your 10th post in this thread, 6 of which are this exact same post give or take a word or two.

[Pacers_4Live]

All i want is for everyone to know that matthollabak and cardinals both was wrong about the lockout, both of you think that you know everything and i dont have respect for your theories about BASKETBALL. I want to remind you, one more time...... that the temporary 2011-2012 will take place with 8 pre-season games and 82 season games.........Let's Go Pacers

[matthollabak]

Good, at least you are finally forming somewhat understandable sentences now.

While I hope I am wrong about the lockout and there is a season, unless you have a link that says there is a signed agreement neither of us is right, since the season shouldn't have started yet, and there is no agreement.

Well since I will just end up getting banned or infracted if I keep reading your posts and responding to someone who is making attempts at baiting me, you can have fun talking to yourself when I ignore you. I don't see anyone else jumping at the opportunity to talk to you in here.

[Pacers_4Live]

2011-12 82 season Games Plus 2011-12 8 Pre-season Games.... Let's Go Pacerssssss..

[matthollabak]

NEW YORK -- The long looks on players' faces and the anger in Deputy Commissioner Adam Silver's voice made it obvious: There was no progress Tuesday in talks to end the NBA lockout.

And with less than three weeks until training camps, the latest setback may be a tough one.

"I think coming out of today, obviously because of the calendar, we can't come out of here feeling as though training camps and the season is going to start on time at this point," players' association president Derek Fisher of the Lakers said.

Still divided over the salary cap structure, owners and players decided to pass on talking again Wednesday, and no further meetings are scheduled at this point.

"Well, we did not have a great day, I think it's fair to say that," Commissioner David Stern said. "On the other hand, we did say that it is our collective task to decide what we want on the one hand on each side, and two, what each side needs if we choose to work ourselves in such a way as to have the season start on time. That's still our goal."

Training camps have been expected to open Oct. 3 and the regular season's opening night is scheduled for Nov. 1.

"We're a bit pessimistic and discouraged at one, the ability to start on time, and we're not so sure that there may not be further damages or delay trying to get the season started," union executive director Billy Hunter said. "The owners are not inclined at this stage to move off the position where they've anchored themselves."

Stern and Silver countered that the union insisted the current soft cap system remain exactly as it is before they would agree to discuss anything else.

"Frankly, we're having trouble understanding why the label of a hard cap is what's breaking apart these negotiations right now, and that's what we discussed for a long time as a committee and then discussed together with the players," said Silver, his voice rising as he spoke.

After three meetings among small groups in the last two weeks, full bargaining committees returned to the table Tuesday. They could also have met Wednesday, but Stern said it was best the two sides step away and meet with their own membership groups on Thursday.

Though owners are seeking an overhaul of the league's financial system after saying they lost $300 million last season and hundreds of millions more in each year of the previous collective bargaining agreement, the salary cap appears to have emerged as the biggest obstacle to a new deal.

The current system allows teams to exceed the ceiling through the use of various exceptions if they are willing to pay a luxury tax, giving big-market teams such as the Lakers -- who can take on added payroll -- an advantage over the little guys.

But Hunter said a hard cap is "highly untenable," referring to it as a "blood issue" to the players. He added the players were prepared to make a "significant" financial move, but they would only agree to give on dollars if they got a win on the system.

"For us, if we give on one, we have to have the other. It can't be just a total capitulation," he said.

The league said players wanted owners to guarantee they would concede on the cap as a condition of talking about anything further, but Stern said "all of the owners were completely unified in the view that we needed a system that at the end of the day allowed 30 teams to compete."

Added Silver: "That should be the goal of both the owners and the players in this negotiation, not to come in and say that that's off the table, and we won't discuss it and it's a precondition of us making an economic move."

The recent meetings had been cordial, sparking hopes that progress was being made. Instead, Fisher and Hunter sat in the middle of a row of players who looked dejected, and now may have to wonder if they need to look harder at finding a job overseas.

A sign of how the day went: Owners spent the majority of about five hours behind closed doors caucusing among themselves.

"We can't find a place with the league and our owners where we can reach a deal sooner rather than later," Fisher said.

Besides the cap, the other main issue remains the division of revenues. Players were guaranteed 57 percent under the old deal and had offered to lower that to 54.3 percent before owners locked them out on July 1. They say the league's proposal would have them a percentage in the 40s, and Hunter said if the owners are serious about a hard cap, he'll give it to them if players get 65 percent.

Owners are scheduled to meet Thursday in Dallas, and Stern again said there won't be any decisions to cancel training camps at that session. But that would have to come sometime later this month without a deal. The opening of camps was postponed on Sept. 24 during the 1998 lockout, which reduced the season to 50 games.

The union will update players Thursday in Las Vegas, and Fisher said he will tell them that "the way it looks right now we may not start on time." He stressed that players are still committed to the process and "not walking away from the table," but Hunter repeated that they "have instructed us that they're prepared to sit out" rather than accept owners' current proposals.

Progress should come eventually over finances. Settling the cap issue could take longer.

"We know how to negotiate over dollars when the time comes, but they so conditioned any discussion on our acceptance of the status quo, which sees a team like the Lakers with well over $100 million in payroll and Sacramento at 45," Stern said. "That's not an acceptable alternative for us. That can't be the outcome that we agree to."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/69...ason-now-doubt

It looks like all the good will that they were talking about last week just ended.

[SteBO]

^Not so fast

NBA Lockout: Don’t panic, they are posturing

September 13, 2011 By Chris Sheridan

By Chris Sheridan

I am tweeting from afar on today’s lack of progress in NBA labor negotiations, and I am not the least bit surprised that everyone is emerging from the meeting in New York spewing doom and gloom.

That is what always happens when the owners’ and players’ full bargaining committees get together. It is a total dog-and-pony show, and anyone who expected the sides to emerge today with a sense of optimism was fooling themselves.

This dispute will get settled when there are a lot fewer people in the room. David Stern and Billy Hunter can reach a suitable middle ground by meeting by themselves for a couple hours, which was what happened back in 1999 when that lockout was settled.

Why would the owners want to budge now, just two days before the Board of Governors meets in Dallas? That meeting will serve to inform all the owners how strong their negotiating position is or isn’t, and they’ll emerge with a plan for moving toward a settlement now that they know what additional concessions the players are willing to make.

September 13 is not, and was never going to be, a movement day for the owners.

The time for them to improve their offer will come later this month, when the calendar dictates that it is time to move toward closure. In a labor negotiation, both sides do not make small incremental moves toward the center. They make a big leap when it comes time to make a big leap.

That time is not now. It is probably another two weeks away.

Today was a day for the owners to instill fear and put whatever the union offered them into their wallets. I’d say their mission was accomplished.

Source: http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/09/13/...are-posturing/

It all makes sense to me. It's really all part of negotiation because let's face it; the players don't want to make it look like they're selling out the next generation of players by caving a little to the owners' demands. They want to make it look like they essentially care, but I think we all know that this point they really don't. The star players couldn't really care less now because of the money they're currently owed under the terms of the contracts they signed last summer. This applies to LeBron, Wade, Bosh, 'Melo, and Amare.

[matthollabak]

^Not so fast

NBA Lockout: Don’t panic, they are posturing


Source: http://sheridanhoops.com/2011/09/13/...are-posturing/

It all makes sense to me. It's really all part of negotiation because let's face it; the players don't want to make it look like they're selling out the next generation of players by caving a little to the owners' demands. They want to make it look like they essentially care, but I think we all know that this point they really don't. The star players couldn't really care less now because of the money they're currently owed under the terms of the contracts they signed last summer. This applies to LeBron, Wade, Bosh, 'Melo, and Amare.

I really do hope you are right, but it seems the only positive articles I've seen in the past weeks were written by one guy, Chris Sheridan. I'm not trying to discredit or disregard what he says but he also now is more independent rather than writing for a site or publication, so for him to just write the same bad news he won't sell much or get much attention for his blog that just launched something like a week or two ago, so writing something different will in turn sell more articles and get people looking at his new site...and since he doesn't work for the AP or ESPN anymore he needs to get something going. Plus the guy started the article by saying he was tweeting from afar, and that means he isn't close to the negotiations. I have seen the good news posted by Sheridan and really hope he is right, but until I see at least a few other people that aren't trying to get traffic to their brand new website writing that same thing, I'm going to stay pessimistic about his optimism, since there are multiple sources writing the opposite.

[SteBO]

I really do hope you are right, but it seems the only positive articles I've seen in the past weeks were written by one guy, Chris Sheridan. I'm not trying to discredit or disregard what he says but he also now is more independent rather than writing for a site or publication, so for him to just write the same bad news he won't sell much or get much attention for his blog that just launched something like a week or two ago, so writing something different will in turn sell more articles and get people looking at his new site...and since he doesn't work for the AP or ESPN anymore he needs to get something going. Plus the guy started the article by saying he was tweeting from afar, and that means he isn't close to the negotiations. I have seen the good news posted by Sheridan and really hope he is right, but until I see at least a few other people that aren't trying to get traffic to their brand new website writing that same thing, I'm going to stay pessimistic about his optimism, since there are multiple sources writing the opposite.

I agree with you here. I just think the owners are still posturing and this whole doom and gloom scenario makes no sense to me. Until preseason games get lost, there's still no instant pressure on either side. Besides, a letter from Derek Fisher to the union came out, and it stated that issue Tuesday had nothing to do with the players not accepting the owners' proposal, but rather the owners at a disagreement from within about the revenue sharing. The players were actually somewhat willing to take that deal, even it was shotty which I doubt will be by the end of this whole ordeal. If you want to read for yourself, check this out.

[matthollabak]

I agree with you here. I just think the owners are still posturing and this whole doom and gloom scenario makes no sense to me. Until preseason games get lost, there's still no instant pressure on either side. Besides, a letter from Derek Fisher to the union came out, and it stated that issue Tuesday had nothing to do with the players not accepting the owners' proposal, but rather the owners at a disagreement from within about the revenue sharing. The players were actually somewhat willing to take that deal, even it was shotty which I doubt will be by the end of this whole ordeal. If you want to read for yourself, check this out.

My worst fear is that the players get to the "we need to make a deal" mentality and get ready to make some deals and end up not being able to because the owners can't decide what they want due to being split and hence don't make an offer or counter offer in a timely manner holding negotiations up even further...and if they somehow make a weak agreement on what they want as owners will they be at it again on what concessions to make as soon as the NBAPA makes a counter proposal slowing things down further?

[matthollabak]

Per Roy Hibbert's twitter

@SlikSmits @daveyindy @redfoster I'm coming back into town for a week. We r working out as a team. Maybe we can set something up w Area55.

Jus landed in Indy. Can't wait to get to work tomorrow with my teammates.

Good to see them getting together and working out. I have seen nothing but players wanting to get better all off season and am glad to see it.

[Colts2180]

Will you shut the hell up please! Say something different for god sakes. Stop acting like a child.

[matthollabak]

Will you shut the hell up please! Say something different for god sakes. Stop acting like a child.

It is so nice to see things like "This user is on your ignore list" instead of the same post for the 12th time.

[matthollabak]

The NBA is expected to announce Friday it will postpone the start of training camp and the opening slate of exhibition games after a negotiating session Thursday in New York between players union executive director Billy Hunter and commissioner David Stern ended without a labor agreement or progress toward one soon, league sources said.

Stern, according to one source, told Hunter in Thursday's meeting the owners want to reduce the players' cut of basketball-related revenue to a figure well below 50 percent. Under the previous agreement, which expired July 1, the players were guaranteed a minimum of 57 percent of basketball-related revenue would be spent on salaries.

In negotiations, the players' union had offered to reduce its percentage to as much as 54 percent to accommodate the owners' contention they lost $300 million last season, with the stipulation that a mechanism would be instituted to reward the players if future revenue increased.

The league offered players a 46 percent of basketball-related revenue, 11 percent less than they received in last deal and seven percent less than last proposal by players, a league source said. Owners agreed to try to come up with a mechanism to solve their issues without adding a hard salary cap before the next meeting, according to the source.

The next negotiating session has not been scheduled, but the two sides agreed to contact each other with possible dates to reconvene next week, sources said. Whenever a deal is struck, it is expected to take at least two weeks to write out the complete terms and hash out the finer points.

A period for free agency and then a training camp, however truncated, also would be necessary before the regular season could begin. Most experts agree a minimum of four weeks is necessary to get it done, making the last week in September the absolute deadline for a deal to be struck before regular season games would have to be postponed or canceled.

Stern acknowledged Thursday that "the calendar is not our friend" when it comes to keeping the NBA season intact.

The league is at about the same point as when it postponed training camps in 1998, the only time it lost games to a work stoppage. The decision then came on Sept. 24 for camps that were set to begin Oct. 5. This year, players would be expected to report Oct. 3.

The regular season is scheduled to open Nov. 1, with the defending champion Dallas Mavericks hosting the Chicago Bulls. Though both sides have repeatedly said there is still time for a deal that would leave the regular season unaffected, neither would say so Thursday -- with union president Derek Fisher of the Los Angeles Lakers using virtually the same words as Stern about the coming weeks.

"I don't have control of that part of it, that would be more of a commissioner Stern, Adam Silver question in terms of logistics of starting the season on time," Fisher said. "I'm not going to try and make a guess on that one. The calendar's obviously not our friend, but we're not going to give up on the process because of the time."

Asked again if he thought things were far enough along to still believe in a Nov. 1 start, Stern said: "I don't have any response to that. I just don't. I don't know the answer."

Stern celebrated his 69th birthday Thursday but didn't appear in a festive mood after meeting for about five hours with leaders from the union. He was joined by Silver, the deputy commissioner, Spurs owner Peter Holt, who heads the labor relations committee, and NBA senior vice president and deputy general counsel Dan Rube. Fisher, Hunter, attorney Ron Klempner and economist Kevin Murphy represented the union.

Those small groups had good talks in recent weeks, but things went poorly last Tuesday when they were rejoined by their full committees. Hunter said after that meeting that players planned to make a "significant" financial concession, only to find that owners refused to agree to their condition of leaving the current salary cap system as is.

Fisher said he didn't believe Thursday's talks moved the situation beyond where it was last week.

Stern said the owners' labor relations committee would talk Friday, and both sides said they hoped to meet again next week.

"We'll keep working at it until we figure this thing out, but right now there isn't anything to really report or say," Fisher said. "I don't have any answers to any questions, other than we'll keep working until we find some solutions."

Not Looking Good

[SteBO]

Here are some bits on the latest lockout events for those that don't venture into the NBA forum alot. Alot of this is very interesting and intriguing.....

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Stern pointed at DWade, which DWade took as sign of disrespect. That triggered his outburst on the commish, sources said.
4 minutes ago

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Star players - LeBron, CP3, PPierce, Baron Davis, Melo, - were ready to leave meeting but Stern asked for private talk w/Billy Hunter....
6 minutes ago

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Hunter then calmed stars down and got them to return to meeting. Players' resolve stunned owners, sources said.
3 minutes ago