Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 3 of 86 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 1281
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,519
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Swashcuff View Post
    I know you just wanted to share but word of advice anything you see on Bleacher Report just ignore bro. They are incredibly inconsistent and in no form or fashion should they be taken seriously.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6...rs-of-all-time

    That's a top 25 where the got MJ 3rd behind Kareem and Magic and their readers for the most part agree.
    And the thing is is that MJ achieved more than both of them despite both of them actually being on the same team for 9 years.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,590
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by JordansBulls View Post
    And the thing is is that MJ achieved more than both of them despite both of them actually being on the same team for 9 years.
    cause all the good teams were old in the 90s, the celtics were old, the lakers the, bad boy pistons
    (im not saying the 6 rings were not impressive, just saying that it was a different situation)

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    33,406
    vCash
    1000
    I still don't know why people love Wilt. Stat Whore who could never beat Bill.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    RI
    Posts
    14,860
    vCash
    1500
    I'm not sure which thread to post this in but I guess I'll post it in here. It's more relevant to the overall rankings vs. the #11. And beware, this is a VERY long post.

    I had come up with a method of getting essentially a "statistical snapshot" of a player's career (basically Kevin Pelton/Bill James' method with a few adjustments) and had posted it in one of the earlier threads. I know a couple posters were asking that I do it for a bunch of other players and I have. It's far from perfect and because it's all numbers, it ignores whatever other intangibles each player possesses. But in conjunction with factoring in other aspects such as the era played in, teammates, determination, etc., I think it can be pretty useful.

    Anyways, what I did is I used two different stats: EWA (which is a variant of PER found on ESPN's stats pages) and Win Shares. Both of these stats try to capture the overall value of a player. Unfortunately, there's some other nice ones out there (like WARP) that I can't use because the numbers aren't publicly available.

    So first, I found the best 3 seasons for each player regardless of whether they were in a row or not. For Hakeem, using Win Shares, that would be his 92-93 season, his 93-94 season and his 88-89 season. I then added that up to get his best 3 seasons total.

    I also took the best 5 consecutive seasons. For Hakeem, this was from his 91-92 season to his 95-96 season. This was his best 5 year stretch of basketball in terms of Win Shares. For EWA (PER's cousin), the years could've been different (although it wasn't for Hakeem).

    Finally, the last regular season component is a player's career Win Shares or EWA totals.

    For the playoffs, what I did is I used mostly career numbers with a mix of the player during his best playoff runs. The way this worked is that I took a player's 3 best playoff runs and weighted it at 10% each with the other 70% being the player's career playoff numbers. However, the player had to have played 500 minutes in the postseason.

    For some guys, like Charles Barkley, they had only 3-4 playoff runs with 500+ minutes. And in Chuck's case, 2 of those playoff runs (with 500+ minutes) were below his career averages, so that left only 2 playoff runs with 500+ minutes played at a higher level then his career playoff averages. So for Chuck, I weighted it 80% career playoff numbers and 10% for his 2 best playoff runs with 500+ minutes. This happened for some other players as well. For Oscar, when using EWA, he only had 1 playoff run with 500+ minutes that was above his career playoff averages. So his EWA playoff numbers ended up being 90% career and 10% best playoff run. (Weirdly enough, this wasn't the case for his Win Share numbers).

    Also, for Barkley, I should also point out and say I was a bit kind to him when I included one of his playoff runs that had 497 minutes.

    In addition, the playoff numbers were found by dividing WS (or EWA) by games played to get WS/G (or EWA/G) and then that was multiplied by 82 to get a full seasons' worth of games. The reason I did this instead of just using WS/48 is because I wanted minutes played to be a factor too. The more minutes you play in a playoff game, the more it helps your team, especially if you're an all-time great. And the reason a seasons worth of games is important is to get it on an even scale with the regular season numbers.

    Here are the results:

    Win Shares:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	playoff WS
    Hakeem	162.8	42.5	60.3	13.66
    Barkley	177.2	50.1	75.8	13.34
    Duncan	170.0	47.5	73.6	14.55
    Kobe	156.3	44.0	64.2	12.30
    KG	174.7	50.0	77.7	10.52
    MJ	214.0	61.9	98.0	19.27
    Shaq	181.7	50.4	69.8	13.48
    Magic	155.8	48.5	74.8	14.87
    Drob	178.7	55.8	82.9	12.04
    Kareem	273.4	69.6	101.8	14.77
    Wilt	247.3	70.0	104.8	18.09
    Bill R	163.5	49.7	76.2	15.93
    L Bird	145.8	46.7	75.3	13.76
    John St	207.7	44.1	71.5	 9.99
    Dirk	161.3	50.1	77.2	15.08
    Karl M	234.6	49.0	77.1	11.30
    Oscar 	189.2	55.0	88.7	13.29
    Moses M	167.1	44.6	70.2	12.69
    Jerry W	162.6	49.0	69.1	15.76
    EWA:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	playoff EWA
    Hakeem	286.01	72.87	110.67	25.71
    Barkley	256.33	73.15	113.41	20.76
    Duncan	255.31	71.06	108.10	23.87
    Kobe	259.64	79.47	112.66	20.94
    KG	259.99	79.32	121.26	17.12
    MJ	355.01	101.21	164.56	32.11
    Shaq	329.50	88.70	123.75	26.45
    Magic	216.67	68.74	105.19	20.15
    Drob	265.98	88.94	132.22	17.75
    Kareem	400.12	93.48	139.43	22.02
    Wilt	369.06	119.63	181.48	27.41
    Bill R	168.17	46.44	 73.80	17.84
    L Bird	222.77	74.45	118.48	20.14
    John St	256.64	56.62	 91.50	13.29
    Dirk	219.94	70.04	107.86	22.71
    Karl M	338.39	75.06	113.16	18.01
    Oscar 	266.37	82.26	130.76	18.34
    Moses M	262.35	72.89	115.06	18.91
    Jerry W	221.06	65.31	 93.55	21.99
    After doing all of that, I divided the career by 10, which is a pretty arbitrary number (I'm thinking of changing it) but basically this gives credit to the people who played longer and the players who had shorter careers get penalized. I divided the best 3 seasons by 3 and the 5 consecutive seasons by 5. This essentially puts everything on the same scale of sorts.

    Since I do value peak more, this ends up being a bigger part of the overall regular season numbers which I found by adding the 3 (career, 3 best and 5 consec) and dividing that by 3.

    For the Overall numbers, I then did the following:
    regular season*40% + playoffs*60% = Overall

    Here's the overall numbers, along with a combined total (EWA + Win Shares /2):

    Win Shares:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	RegSeas	Overall
    Hakeem	16.28	14.17	12.06	14.17	13.86
    Barkley	17.72	16.70	15.16	16.53	14.614
    Duncan	17.00	15.83	14.72	15.85	15.07
    Kobe	15.63	14.67	12.84	14.38	13.13
    KG	17.47	16.67	15.54	16.56	12.94
    MJ	21.40	20.63	19.60	20.54	19.78
    Shaq	18.17	16.80	13.96	16.31	14.610
    Magic	15.58	16.17	14.96	15.57	15.15
    Drob	17.87	18.60	16.58	17.68	14.30
    Kareem	27.34	23.20	20.36	23.63	18.31
    Wilt	24.73	23.33	20.96	23.01	20.06
    Bill R	16.35	16.57	15.24	16.05	15.98
    L Bird	14.58	15.57	15.06	15.07	14.29
    John St	20.77	14.70	14.30	16.59	12.63
    Dirk	16.13	16.70	15.44	16.09	15.48
    Karl M	23.46	16.33	15.42	18.40	14.14
    Oscar 	18.92	18.33	17.74	18.33	15.31
    Moses M	16.71	14.87	14.04	15.21	13.70
    Jerry W	16.26	16.33	13.82	15.47	15.64
    EWA:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	RegSeas	Overall
    Hakeem	28.60	24.29	22.13	25.01	25.43
    Barkley	25.63	24.38	22.68	24.23	22.15
    Duncan	25.53	23.69	21.62	23.61	23.76
    Kobe	25.96	26.49	22.53	25.00	22.56
    KG	26.00	26.44	24.25	25.56	20.50
    MJ	35.50	33.74	32.91	34.05	32.88
    Shaq	32.95	29.57	24.75	29.09	27.51
    Magic	21.67	22.91	21.04	21.87	20.84
    Drob	26.60	29.65	26.44	27.56	21.68
    Kareem	40.01	31.16	27.89	33.02	26.42
    Wilt	36.91	39.88	36.30	37.69	31.52
    Bill R	16.82	15.48	14.76	15.69	16.98
    L Bird	22.28	24.82	23.70	23.60	21.52
    John St	25.66	18.87	18.30	20.95	16.35
    Dirk	21.99	23.35	21.57	22.30	22.55
    Karl M	33.84	25.02	22.63	27.16	21.67
    Oscar 	26.64	27.42	26.15	26.74	21.70
    Moses M	26.24	24.30	23.01	24.51	21.15
    Jerry W	22.11	21.77	18.71	20.86	21.54
    Combined:

    Code:
    	WS	EWA	Combined
    Hakeem	13.86	25.43	19.64
    Barkley	14.61	22.15	18.38
    Duncan	15.07	23.76	19.42
    Kobe	13.13	22.56	17.85
    KG	12.94	20.50	16.72
    MJ	19.78	32.88	26.33
    Shaq	14.61	27.51	21.06
    Magic	15.15	20.84	17.99
    Drob	14.30	21.68	17.99
    Kareem	18.31	26.42	22.37
    Wilt	20.06	31.52	25.79
    Bill R	15.98	16.98	16.48
    L Bird	14.29	21.52	17.90
    John St	12.63	16.35	14.49
    Dirk	15.48	22.55	19.01
    Karl M	14.14	21.67	17.91
    Oscar 	15.31	21.70	18.50
    Moses M	13.70	21.15	17.42
    Jerry W	15.64	21.54	18.59
    Note: Magic and Robinson were tied but Magic actually finished ahead.

    There are still some issues with what I've done. Obviously if you think career is more important then peak, you won't like the fact that peak gets weighted basically twice as much as career. I'll also be willing to admit, that maybe more emphasis does need to be placed on being dominant for say a decade. I'm thinking of adding a best 10 consecutive seasons to the totals. I'm still tweaking this whole thing so it's not really finished per say.

    Anyways, as far as the results, pretty surprising. If this does show one thing, its that all of these players are really close. You're splitting hairs essentially, with the exception of MJ, Wilt and Kareem. PSD voted those guys the top 3 players of all-time so my results seem to align with the general population.

    Magic and Bird were probably hurt by the relatively short careers compared to a lot of the other all-time greats. Karl Malone, Stockton and KG were definitely hurt by their playoff numbers. Oscar actually appears to have a case over Barkley unlike what I initially thought. Of course, turnover #'s were also not tracked so those could/would definitely affect Oscar's numbers.

    Bill Russell comes out with one of the lowest totals but I'm NOT saying he's the worst among these all-time greats. His strength was defense, which is something that's hard to quantify. He also possessed many intangibles that made him a great player. Wilt, on the other hand, looks great but many accuse him of being a stat whore and well, the stats definitely agree.

    Anyways, enjoy.

    Edit: I did not include Moses Malone's ABA numbers. I'm not sure how they would translate over and frankly, I don't think it'd make much of a difference since he only played 2 seasons in the ABA, one of which was cut in half due to injuries (I'm guessing, maybe not).
    Last edited by PatsSoxKnicks; 07-19-2011 at 11:58 PM.
    Patriots Forum HOF Class of 2011

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    12,513
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by patsSOXknicks View Post
    I'm not sure which thread to post this in but I guess I'll post it in here. It's more relevant to the overall rankings vs. the #11. And beware, this is a VERY long post.

    I had come up with a method of getting essentially a "statistical snapshot" of a player's career (basically Kevin Pelton/Bill James' method with a few adjustments) and had posted it in one of the earlier threads. I know a couple posters were asking that I do it for a bunch of other players and I have. It's far from perfect and because it's all numbers, it ignores whatever other intangibles each player possesses. But in conjunction with factoring in other aspects such as the era played in, teammates, determination, etc., I think it can be pretty useful.

    Anyways, what I did is I used two different stats: EWA (which is a variant of PER found on ESPN's stats pages) and Win Shares. Both of these stats try to capture the overall value of a player. Unfortunately, there's some other nice ones out there (like WARP) that I can't use because the numbers aren't publicly available.

    So first, I found the best 3 seasons for each player regardless of whether they were in a row or not. For Hakeem, using Win Shares, that would be his 92-93 season, his 93-94 season and his 88-89 season. I then added that up to get his best 3 seasons total.

    I also took the best 5 consecutive seasons. For Hakeem, this was from his 91-92 season to his 95-96 season. This was his best 5 year stretch of basketball in terms of Win Shares. For EWA (PER's cousin), the years could've been different (although it wasn't for Hakeem).

    Finally, the last regular season component is a player's career Win Shares or EWA totals.

    For the playoffs, what I did is I used mostly career numbers with a mix of the player during his best playoff runs. The way this worked is that I took a player's 3 best playoff runs and weighted it at 10% each with the other 70% being the player's career playoff numbers. However, the player had to have played 500 minutes in the postseason.

    For some guys, like Charles Barkley, they had only 3-4 playoff runs with 500+ minutes. And in Chuck's case, 2 of those playoff runs (with 500+ minutes) were below his career averages, so that left only 2 playoff runs with 500+ minutes played at a higher level then his career playoff averages. So for Chuck, I weighted it 80% career playoff numbers and 10% for his 2 best playoff runs with 500+ minutes. This happened for some other players as well. For Oscar, when using EWA, he only had 1 playoff run with 500+ minutes that was above his career playoff averages. So his EWA playoff numbers ended up being 90% career and 10% best playoff run. (Weirdly enough, this wasn't the case for his Win Share numbers).

    Also, for Barkley, I should also point out and say I was a bit kind to him when I included one of his playoff runs that had 497 minutes.

    In addition, the playoff numbers were found by dividing WS (or EWA) by games played to get WS/G (or EWA/G) and then that was multiplied by 82 to get a full seasons' worth of games. The reason I did this instead of just using WS/48 is because I wanted minutes played to be a factor too. The more minutes you play in a playoff game, the more it helps your team, especially if you're an all-time great. And the reason a seasons worth of games is important is to get it on an even scale with the regular season numbers.

    Here are the results:

    Win Shares:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	playoff WS
    Hakeem	162.8	42.5	60.3	13.66
    Barkley	177.2	50.1	75.8	13.34
    Duncan	170.0	47.5	73.6	14.55
    Kobe	156.3	44.0	64.2	12.30
    KG	174.7	50.0	77.7	10.52
    MJ	214.0	61.9	98.0	19.27
    Shaq	181.7	50.4	69.8	13.48
    Magic	155.8	48.5	74.8	14.87
    Drob	178.7	55.8	82.9	12.04
    Kareem	273.4	69.6	101.8	14.77
    Wilt	247.3	70.0	104.8	18.09
    Bill R	163.5	49.7	76.2	15.93
    L Bird	145.8	46.7	75.3	13.76
    John St	207.7	44.1	71.5	 9.99
    Dirk	161.3	50.1	77.2	15.08
    Karl M	234.6	49.0	77.1	11.30
    Oscar 	189.2	55.0	88.7	13.29
    Moses M	167.1	44.6	70.2	12.69
    Jerry W	162.6	49.0	69.1	15.76
    EWA:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	playoff EWA
    Hakeem	286.01	72.87	110.67	25.71
    Barkley	256.33	73.15	113.41	20.76
    Duncan	255.31	71.06	108.10	23.87
    Kobe	259.64	79.47	112.66	20.94
    KG	259.99	79.32	121.26	17.12
    MJ	355.01	101.21	164.56	32.11
    Shaq	329.50	88.70	123.75	26.45
    Magic	216.67	68.74	105.19	20.15
    Drob	265.98	88.94	132.22	17.75
    Kareem	400.12	93.48	139.43	22.02
    Wilt	369.06	119.63	181.48	27.41
    Bill R	168.17	46.44	 73.80	17.84
    L Bird	222.77	74.45	118.48	20.14
    John St	256.64	56.62	 91.50	13.29
    Dirk	219.94	70.04	107.86	22.71
    Karl M	338.39	75.06	113.16	18.01
    Oscar 	266.37	82.26	130.76	18.34
    Moses M	262.35	72.89	115.06	18.91
    Jerry W	221.06	65.31	 93.55	21.99
    After doing all of that, I divided the career by 10, which is a pretty arbitrary number (I'm thinking of changing it) but basically this gives credit to the people who played longer and the players who had shorter careers get penalized. I divided the best 3 seasons by 3 and the 5 consecutive seasons by 5. This essentially puts everything on the same scale of sorts.

    Since I do value peak more, this ends up being a bigger part of the overall regular season numbers which I found by adding the 3 (career, 3 best and 5 consec) and dividing that by 3.

    For the Overall numbers, I then did the following:
    regular season*40% + playoffs*60% = Overall

    Here's the overall numbers, along with a combined total (EWA + Win Shares /2):

    Win Shares:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	RegSeas	Overall
    Hakeem	16.28	14.17	12.06	14.17	13.86
    Barkley	17.72	16.70	15.16	16.53	14.614
    Duncan	17.00	15.83	14.72	15.85	15.07
    Kobe	15.63	14.67	12.84	14.38	13.13
    KG	17.47	16.67	15.54	16.56	12.94
    MJ	21.40	20.63	19.60	20.54	19.78
    Shaq	18.17	16.80	13.96	16.31	14.610
    Magic	15.58	16.17	14.96	15.57	15.15
    Drob	17.87	18.60	16.58	17.68	14.30
    Kareem	27.34	23.20	20.36	23.63	18.31
    Wilt	24.73	23.33	20.96	23.01	20.06
    Bill R	16.35	16.57	15.24	16.05	15.98
    L Bird	14.58	15.57	15.06	15.07	14.29
    John St	20.77	14.70	14.30	16.59	12.63
    Dirk	16.13	16.70	15.44	16.09	15.48
    Karl M	23.46	16.33	15.42	18.40	14.14
    Oscar 	18.92	18.33	17.74	18.33	15.31
    Moses M	16.71	14.87	14.04	15.21	13.70
    Jerry W	16.26	16.33	13.82	15.47	15.64
    EWA:

    Code:
    	career	best 3	5 consc	RegSeas	Overall
    Hakeem	28.60	24.29	22.13	25.01	25.43
    Barkley	25.63	24.38	22.68	24.23	22.15
    Duncan	25.53	23.69	21.62	23.61	23.76
    Kobe	25.96	26.49	22.53	25.00	22.56
    KG	26.00	26.44	24.25	25.56	20.50
    MJ	35.50	33.74	32.91	34.05	32.88
    Shaq	32.95	29.57	24.75	29.09	27.51
    Magic	21.67	22.91	21.04	21.87	20.84
    Drob	26.60	29.65	26.44	27.56	21.68
    Kareem	40.01	31.16	27.89	33.02	26.42
    Wilt	36.91	39.88	36.30	37.69	31.52
    Bill R	16.82	15.48	14.76	15.69	16.98
    L Bird	22.28	24.82	23.70	23.60	21.52
    John St	25.66	18.87	18.30	20.95	16.35
    Dirk	21.99	23.35	21.57	22.30	22.55
    Karl M	33.84	25.02	22.63	27.16	21.67
    Oscar 	26.64	27.42	26.15	26.74	21.70
    Moses M	26.24	24.30	23.01	24.51	21.15
    Jerry W	22.11	21.77	18.71	20.86	21.54
    Combined:

    Code:
    	WS	EWA	Combined
    Hakeem	13.86	25.43	19.64
    Barkley	14.61	22.15	18.38
    Duncan	15.07	23.76	19.42
    Kobe	13.13	22.56	17.85
    KG	12.94	20.50	16.72
    MJ	19.78	32.88	26.33
    Shaq	14.61	27.51	21.06
    Magic	15.15	20.84	17.99
    Drob	14.30	21.68	17.99
    Kareem	18.31	26.42	22.37
    Wilt	20.06	31.52	25.79
    Bill R	15.98	16.98	16.48
    L Bird	14.29	21.52	17.90
    John St	12.63	16.35	14.49
    Dirk	15.48	22.55	19.01
    Karl M	14.14	21.67	17.91
    Oscar 	15.31	21.70	18.50
    Moses M	13.70	21.15	17.42
    Jerry W	15.64	21.54	18.59
    Note: Magic and Robinson were tied but Magic actually finished ahead.

    There are still some issues with what I've done. Obviously if you think career is more important then peak, you won't like the fact that peak gets weighted basically twice as much as career. I'll also be willing to admit, that maybe more emphasis does need to be placed on being dominant for say a decade. I'm thinking of adding a best 10 consecutive seasons to the totals. I'm still tweaking this whole thing so it's not really finished per say.

    Anyways, as far as the results, pretty surprising. If this does show one thing, its that all of these players are really close. You're splitting hairs essentially, with the exception of MJ, Wilt and Kareem. PSD voted those guys the top 3 players of all-time so my results seem to align with the general population.

    Magic and Bird were probably hurt by the relatively short careers compared to a lot of the other all-time greats. Karl Malone, Stockton and KG were definitely hurt by their playoff numbers. Oscar actually appears to have a case over Barkley unlike what I initially thought. Of course, turnover #'s were also not tracked so those could/would definitely affect Oscar's numbers.

    Bill Russell comes out with one of the lowest totals but I'm NOT saying he's the worst among these all-time greats. His strength was defense, which is something that's hard to quantify. He also possessed many intangibles that made him a great player. Wilt, on the other hand, looks great but many accuse him of being a stat whore and well, the stats definitely agree.

    Anyways, enjoy.

    Edit: I did not include Moses Malone's ABA numbers. I'm not sure how they would translate over and frankly, I don't think it'd make much of a difference since he only played 2 seasons in the ABA, one of which was cut in half due to injuries (I'm guessing, maybe not).
    I like the idea of putting all the big stat posts in this thread. Not quite as active as the voting/active player rating threads so these posts won't get lost back in old/big threads.

    Thanks for posting sox

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,519
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by knightstemplar View Post
    cause all the good teams were old in the 90s, the celtics were old, the lakers the, bad boy pistons
    (im not saying the 6 rings were not impressive, just saying that it was a different situation)
    1991 Los Angeles Lakers

    58-24, #2 in the West, #3 in the league
    Ranked #5 in offensive rating, #5 in defensive rating

    Past regular season performance: 63-19 (#1 in the West, #1 in the league), 57-25 (#1 in the West, #2 overall), 62-20 (#1 in the West, #1 in the league)
    Past playoff performance: lost in second round, lost in NBA finals, won NBA finals (they also won the championship the previous year)

    Personnel

    All-stars in 1990-91: Magic Johnson, James Worthy
    HOFers: Magic Johnson, James Worthy
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Magic Johnson (12x), James Worthy (7x), Vlade Divac (1x), AC Green (1x—1990)
    Other key players: Byron Scott, Sam Perkins

    MVP caliber players: Magic Johnson. He was a 3-time MVP, was the MVP the previous season and finished second in MVP voting in 1991. Johnson also finished second in 1985 and was third on four other occasions.
    All-NBA players: Magic Johnson (1st team), James Worthy (3rd team)
    All-defensive players: None

    Magic Johnson ranked second in the league in assists that season with 12.5. He was 4th in PER, 3rd in offensive win shares, 4th in overall win shares, and 7th in offensive rating. Vlade Divac was 17th in blocks.

    Magic Johnson is considered by some to be the overall GOAT and by most to be the GOAT pg. In 1991 Magic was considered by most to be either the best player in the league or second behind Michael Jordan. He was clearly the best player at his position in 1991.

    Leading scorers: James Worthy 21.4, Magic Johnson 19.4, Byron Scott 14.5, Sam Perkins 13.5, Vlade Divac 11.2
    Leading rebounders: Vlade Divac 8.1, Sam Perkins 7.4, Magic Johnson 7.0
    Leading passers: Magic Johnson 12.5 assists, James Worthy 3.5, Larry Drew 2.5

    How they got there

    They swept the 52-30 Hakeem Olajuwon Rockets in the first round, they defeated the 44-38 “run TMC” Golden State Warriors 4-1 in the semifinals, and beat the the Portland Trailblazers 4-2 in the WCF. Portland had the best record in the league.

    1991 Detroit Pistons

    They were the reigning two-time NBA champions, and reigning three-time Eastern conference champions. They went 50-32 in 1991, giving them the #3 seed. They made the ECF after defeating the 43-39 Dominique Wilkins Atlanta Hawks 3-2 in the first round, and beating the #2 seed, the 56-26 Larry Bird/Kevin McHale/Reggie Lewis/Robert Parish Celtics in six games in the ECSF.

    They ranked 4th in defensive rating, 12th in offensive rating.

    All-stars in 1990-91: Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars
    HOFers: Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman?
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Isiah Thomas (12x), Joe Dumars (6x), Dennis Rodman (2x—1990 and 1992)
    Other key players: Bill Laimbeer, Vinnie Johnson, Mark Aguirre

    MVP caliber players: Isiah Thomas. Isiah finished 5th in MVP voting in 1984.
    All-NBA players: Joe Dumars (3rd team)
    All-Defensive players: Dennis Rodman (1st team), Joe Dumars (2nd team)

    Joe Dumars was 20th in scoring, 19th in offensive win shares.
    Dennis Rodman was 2nd in rebounding, 7th in defensive win shares.
    Isiah Thomas was 6th in assists,
    Bill Laimbeer was 14th in rebounding, 14th in defensive rating, 14th in defensive win shares.
    John Salley was 19th in blocks, 9th in defensive rating.

    Isiah Thomas is generally considered to be a top 5 all-time PG. Dennis Rodman is considered by some to be the GOAT rebounder. Isiah was probably the second best PG in the league in 1991 behind Magic.

    1992 Portland Trailblazers

    57-25, #1 in the West and #2 overall
    7th in offensive rating, 2nd in defensive rating

    Past regular season performance: 63-19 (#1 in the West, #1 overall), 59-23 (#2 in the West, #2 overall), 39-43 (#8 in the West, #18 overall)
    Past playoff performance: lost in the WCF, lost in the NBA finals, lost in the first round

    Personnel

    All-stars in 1990-91: Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, Kevin Duckworth
    HOFers: Clyde Drexler
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Clyde Drexler (10x), Buck Williams (3x), Terry Porter (2x), Kevin Duckworth (2x), Danny Ainge (1x), Cliff Robinson (1x)
    Other key players: Jerome Kersey

    Talk about talent! Half the team was at some point an all-star!

    MVP caliber players: Clyde Drexler. Drexler finished 2nd in MVP voting in 1992. He was 5th in 1988.
    All-NBA players: Clyde Drexler (1st team)
    All-Defensive players: Buck Williams (2nd team)

    Clyde Drexler was 4th in scoring, 20th in assists, 19th in steals, 5th in PER, 15th in defensive rating, 7th in offensive win shares, 9th in defensive win shares, 6th in overall win shares

    At the time some people considered Clyde Drexler to be the second best player in the NBA, as a sort of MJ-lite. He was the consensus #2 at his position at the time. He is generally considered to be one of the top 5 SG's of all-time.

    Leading scorers: Drexler 25.0, Porter 18.1, Kersey 12.6, Robinson 12.4, Williams 11.3
    Leading rebounders: Williams 8.8, Kersey 8.2, Drexler 6.6
    Leading passers: Drexler 6.7, Porter 5.8, Kersey 3.2

    How they got there

    They beat the 43-39 defending Western conference champion Los Angeles Lakers 3-1 in the first round (Magic Johnson retired before the season began), the 53-29 Phoenix Suns 4-1 in the WCSF, and the 55-27 Malone/Stockon Jazz 4-2 in the WCF.

    1992 Cleveland Cavaliers

    57-25, #2 in the East, #2 overall
    #2 in offensive rating, #11 in defensive rating

    This team was 33-49, 42-40,l and 57-25 in the previous three seasons. It had never made it past the first round during this time.

    All-stars in 1991-92: Brad Daughtery, Mark Price
    HOFers:
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Brad Daughtery (5x), Mark Price (4x), Larry Nance (3x, including 1993)
    Other key players: John “Hot Rod” Williams, Craig Ehlo

    MVP caliber players: None. Price did finish 7th in MVP voting in 1992 and Daughtery was 11th but they were never serious MVP candidates at any points in their careers.
    All-NBA players: Brad Daughtery (3rd team), Mark Price (3rd team)
    All-Defensive players: Larry Nance (2nd team)

    Brad Daughtery was 13th in scoring, 13th in rebounding, 7th in PER, 8th in offensive rating, 9th in offensive win shares, 14th overall in win shares
    Mark Price was 10th in assists, 10th in PER, 7th in offensive rating, 13th in offensive win shares
    Larry Nance was 3rd in blocks, 12th in PER, 4th in offensive rating, 10th in offensive win shares, 15th in defensive win shares, 9th in overall win shares

    Daughtery and Price were generally considered to be among the top 5 players at their positions in 1992. Daughtery was the third all-NBA center, although it can be argued that Hakeem Olajuwon was still better than him in 1992. These two were likely hall of famers but had their careers either ended prematurely by injury or reduced to a role player due to them.

    1993 Phoenix Suns

    62-20, #1 in the West, #1 in the league
    #1 in offensive rating, #9 in defensive rating

    Past regular season performance: 53-29, 55-27, 54-28
    Past playoff performance: lost in WCSF, lost in the first round, lost in the WCF

    Personnel

    All-stars in 1992-93: Charles Barkley, Dan Majerle
    HOFers: Charles Barkley
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Charles Barkley (11x), Tom Chambers (4x), Kevin Johnson (3x, including 1994), Dan Majerle (3x), Cedric Ceballos (1x, 1995), Danny Ainge (1x)
    Other key players: Richard Dumas

    Half the team was all-star level at some point!

    MVP caliber players: Charles Barkley. He was the 1993 MVP. He also finished 2nd in MVP voting in 1990 and 4th in 1991 and 1988.
    All-NBA players: Charles Barkley (1st team)
    All-defensive players: Dan Majerle (2nd team)

    Charles Barkley was 4th in scoring, 6th in rebounding, 4th in PER, 7th in offensive rating, 16th in defensive rating, 3rd in offensive win shares, 10th in defensive win shares, and 4th in overall win shares.
    Kevin Johnson was 11th in assists.
    Dan Majerle was 17th in steals, 8th in offensive rating, 13th in offensive win shares, and 14th in overall win shares.

    Charles Barkley was considered by many to be the second best player in the NBA in 1993. He is a consensus top 5 all-time PF, usually placing third or fourth on most people's lists.

    Kevin Johnson was generally considered to be a top 5 PG during his prime.
    Johnson was a 20-22/10-12 guy when healthy. However, he was not healthy for much of 1992-93.

    Dan Majerle was an elite defender in his prime.

    Leading scorers: Barkley 25.6, Majerle 16.9, Johnson 16.1, Dumas 15.8, Ceballos 12.8 (Chambers and Ainge chipped in 12 each)
    Leading rebounders: Barkley 12.6, West 5.6, Ceballos 5.5
    Leading passers: Johnson 7.8, Barkley 5.1, Majerle 3.8

    How they got there

    They beat the 39-43 Lakers 3-2 in the first round, the 49-33 David Robinson Spurs 4-2, and the #3 seed (they tied for the second best record but Houston won the tiebreaker) Seattle Supersonics in 7 games in the WCF. This Seattle team was led by a young Shawn Kemp, a young Gary Payton, and Ricky Pierce.

    1993 New York Knicks

    60-22, #1 in the East, #2 overall
    #22 in offensive rating, #1 in defensive rating

    This team was 51-31, 39-43, and 45-37 in the previous three seasons. It twice made the ECSF during this span, including taking the eventual champion Bulls to 7 games in 1992.

    All-stars in 1992-93: Patrick Ewing
    HOFers: Patrick Ewing
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Patrick Ewing (11x), Rolando Blackman (4x), John Starks (1x, 1994), Charles Oakley (1x, 1994), Anthony Mason (1x), Doc Rivers (1x)
    Other key players: Charles Smith

    MVP caliber players: Patrick Ewing. Ewing placed in the top 5 in MVP voting six times in his career, including finishing 4th in 1993. He curiously never finished higher than 4th in the MVP race, though.

    All-NBA players: Patrick Ewing (2nd team)
    All-Defensive players: John Starks (2nd team)

    Patrick Ewing was 6th in scoring, 7th in rebounding, 10th in blocks, 13th in PER, #1 in defensive rating, #1 in defensive win shares, and 12th in overall win shares.
    John Starks was 17th in defensive rating, 17th in defensive win shares,
    Charles Oakley was 3rd in defensive rating, 11th in defensive win shares

    Patrick Ewing is generally considered to be one of the top 10 centers of all-time. In 1993 he was arguably a top 5 player overall and probably the second best center in the league then.[/QUOTE]




    1996-1998

    1996 Seattle Supersonics

    64-18, #1 in the West, #2 in the league
    Ranked #7 in offensive rating, #2 in defensive rating

    Past regular season performance: 57-25 (#4 in the West, #4 overall), 63-19 (#1 in the West, #1 overall), 55-27 (#2 in the West, #4 overall)
    Past playoff performance: lost in first round, lost in first round, lost in WCF

    Personnel

    All-stars in 1995-96: Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton
    HOFers: Gary Payton
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Gary Payton (9x), Shawn Kemp (6x), Detlef Scrempf (3x, including 1995 and 1997), Hersey Hawkins (1x)

    Other key players: Sam Perkins

    MVP caliber players: Gary Payton. He finished 3rd in MVP voting in 1998. He was also 6th five other teams, including 1996.
    All-NBA players: Shawn Kemp (2nd team), Gary Payton (2nd team)
    All-defensive players: Gary Payton (1st team), defensive player of the year

    Payton was arguably the best PG in the NBA in 1996. He was also the DPOY that year. Kemp was a top 3 player at his position (Malone, Barkley). Schrempf was an all-star level player who made the all-star team in the year prior to 1996 and the season after—and this was their #3 player! Hersey Hawkins was a player capable of averaging 20 ppg as the #1 option.

    Shawn Kemp was 5th in rebounding, 10th in PER, 17th in blocks, 2nd in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 8th in overall win shares
    Gary Payton was 10th in assists, 1st in steals, 20th in PER, 15th in defensive rating, 7th in overall win shares
    Detlef Schrempf was 17th in offensive rating

    Leading scorers: Kemp 19.6, Payton 19.3, Detlef Schrempf 17.1, Hersey Hawkins 15.6, Sam Perkins 11.8
    Leading rebounders: Kemp 11.4, Johnson 5.4, Schrempf 5.3
    Leading passers: Payton 7.6, Schrempf 4.4, McMillan 3.6

    How they got there

    They beat the 39-43 Kings 3-1 in the first round, swept the 48-34 two-time defending champion Hakeem/Drexler Rockers in the WCSF, and beat the 55-27 Malone/Stockton Jazz in seven games in the WCF.

    1996 Orlando Magic

    60-22, #2 in the East, #3 overall
    #3 in offensive rating, #12 in defensive rating

    This team was the reigning Eastern conference champions. It went 57-25 en route to the NBA finals in 1995. It was the only team to defeat Michael Jordan in the playoffs in the 1990's. Prior to that it was 50-32 (lost to the Pacers in the first round), and 41-41 (lottery).

    All-stars in 1995-96: Shaquille O'Neal, Penny Hardaway
    HOFers: Shaquille O'Neal
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Shaquille O'Neal (15x), Penny Hardaway (4x), Horace Grant (1x)
    Other key players: Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott

    MVP caliber players: Shaquille O'Neal, Penny Hardway. Shaq was the 2000 MVP. He has finished 6th or higher in MVP voting 10 times, including being 2nd in 2005, 1995, and 3rd in 2001 and 2002. Hardaway finished in the top 5 once—that was in 1996 when he was third in the MVP race.
    All-NBA players: Penny Hardaway (1st team), Shaquille O'Neal (3rd team)
    All-Defensive players: Horace Grant (2nd team)

    This was another very stacked team. It had not only two players who had HOF ability (we all know the tragic turn Penny's career took due to injuries), these two players were actually MVP level players. In addition, they had an elite defender and all-star capable player in Horace Grant, a former franchise player in Nick Anderson, and another player in Dennis Scott who was capable of scoring 20 ppg if he was a main option on a team.

    Shaquille O'Neal was 3rd in scoring, 6th in rebounding, 9th in blocks,
    Penny Hardaway was 11th in scoring, 11th in assists, 6th in steals, 7th in PER, 8th in offensive rating, 3rd in offensive win shares, 4th in overall win shares
    Horace Grant was 19th in rebounding, 10th in offensive rating
    Dennis Scott 18th in offensive rating,

    Shaquille O'Neal is one of the top 10 players of all-time. He is consensus top 5 among centers, usually vying with Hakeem behind the trio of Wilt, Kareem, and Russell. Shaq was probably a top 5 player in 1996. Penny Hardaway was also arguably a top 5 player in 1996. Certainly both Shaq and Penny were at least top 10. Penny, along with Grant Hill, was considered by many to be the guy who would “replace” Jordan as the premier player in the NBA and the face of the league at the time. Only injuries ruined his career but the Penny of 1996 was a beast.

    Leading scorers: O'Neal 26.6, Hardaway 21.7, Scott 17.5, Anderson 14.7, Grant 13.4
    Leading rebounders: O'Neal 11.0, Grant 9.2, Anderson 4.2
    Leading passers: Hardaway 7.1, Shaw 4.5, Anderson 3.6

    This team was so stacked that had it not been for MJ's comeback it could have been the new NBA dynasty. If MJ did not come back they would have almost certainly made it to the finals and in that case it is hard to see Shaq leaving Orlando the next season.

    1997 Utah Jazz

    64-18, #1 in the West, #2 in the NBA
    #2 in offensive rating, #9 in defensive rating

    Past regular season performance: 55-27 (#3 in the West, #5 overall), 60-22 (#2 in the West, #2 overall), 53-29 (#5 in the West, #8 overall)
    Past playoff performance: lost in the WCF, lost in the first round, lost in the WCF (they also lost in the WCF in 1992)

    Personnel

    All-stars in 1996-97: Karl Malone, John Stockon
    HOFers: Karl Malone, John Stockton
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Malone (14x), Stockon (10x), Jeff Hornacek (1x)
    Other key players: Byron Russell

    MVP caliber players: Karl Malone. Malone was MVP twice, including in 1997. He finished second in MVP voting in 1998 , third twice, 4th three times.
    All-NBA players: Karl Malone (1st team), John Stockon (3rd team)
    All-Defensive players: John Stockon (2nd team)

    Malone is probably the GOAT PF! Stockton is the all-time leader in assists. Malone was also probably the second best player in the league in 1997. Hornacek was also a very good player who was an all-star and a 19-20 ppg scorer if given a big role in the offense.

    Karl Malone was 2nd in scoring, 11th in rebounding, 1st in PER, 2nd in offensive win shares, 13th in defensive win shares, 2nd in overall win shares
    John Stockton was 2nd in assists, 8th in steals, 7th in PER, 2nd in offensive rating, 12th in offensive rating, 4th in offensive win shares, 4th in overall win shares
    Jeff Hornacek was 6th in offensive rating, 14th in offensive win shares, 18th in overall win shares

    How they got there

    They swept that 36-46 Clippers, they crushed the 56-26 Shaq Lakers (a team which had four players who would be all-stars the next season), and they beat the 57-25 Hakeem/Barkley/Drexler Rockets 4-2 in the WCF. They beat a team with three HOFers! All three were still effective at that point, although they were all past their prime. Hakeem was still good for 23 points and 9 boards, Barkley 19 points and 14 boards, and Drexler was still a 18/6/6 player as the #3 player on the team.

    1997 Miami Heat

    61-21, #2 in the East, #3 overall
    #12 in offensive rating, #1 in defensive rating

    This team sucked until they traded for Alonzo Mourning. This team then became a perennial championship contender for a few years with prime Mourning and prime Tim Hardaway.

    All-stars in 1996-97: Alonzo Mourning, Tim Hardaway
    HOFers: Alonzo Mourning (likely)? Tim Hardaway (should be likely but has pr problems)???
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Alonzo Mouring (7x), Tim Hardaway (5x), Dan Majerle (3x), Jamal Mashburn (1x)
    Other key players: PJ Brown

    MVP caliber players: Alonzo Mourning, Tim Hardaway. Hardaway finished 4th in MVP voting in 1997. and was 6th the following season. Mourning was 2nd in 1999 and 3rd in 2000.
    All-NBA players: Tim Hardaway (1st team)
    All-Defensive players: PJ Brown (2nd team)

    Alonzo Mouring in 1997 was a top 5 center and arguably had eclipsed the aging Hakeem and Shaq for the #2 position.

    Alonzo Mouring was 10th in rebounding, 4th in blocks, 10th in PER, 1st in defensive rating, 6th in offensive win shares,
    Tim Hardaway was 17th in scoring, 7th in assists, 15th in steals, 16th in PER, 13th in offensive win shares, 15th in offensive win shares, 7th in overall win shares
    PJ Brown was 5th in defensive rating

    1998 Utah Jazz

    62-20, #1 in the West, #1 overall
    #1 in offensive rating, #16 in defensive rating

    Past performance: see above

    Personnel

    All-stars in 1997-98: Karl Malone
    HOFers: Karl Malone, John Stockton
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Malone (14x), Stockon (10x), Jeff Hornacek (1x)
    Other key players: Byron Russell

    MVP caliber players: Karl Malone. Malone was MVP twice, including in 1997. He finished second in MVP voting in 1998.
    All-NBA players: Karl Malone (1st team)
    All-Defensive players: None

    Malone is probably the GOAT PF! Stockton is the all-time leader in assists. Malone was also probably the second best player in the league in 1998. Hornacek was also a very good player who was an all-star and a 19-20 ppg scorer if given a big role in the offense.

    Karl Malone was 3rd in scoring, 6th in rebounding, 2nd in PER, 2nd in offensive win shares, 8th in offensive rating, 1st in offensive win shares, 19th in defensive win shares, 1st in overall win shares
    13th in defensive win shares, 2nd in overall win shares
    John Stockton was 5th in assists, 1st in offensive rating, 17th in offensive win shares,
    Jeff Hornacek was 4th in offensive rating, 9th in offensive win shares, 19thh in overall win shares

    How they got there

    They beat the 41-41 Rockets, the 56-26 Duncan/Robinson Spurs in a mere five games, and swept the Lakers, who had four all-stars on their team (Shaq, Kobe, Van Exel, and Eddie Jones!

    1998 Indiana Pacers

    58-24, #2 in the East, #5 overall
    #4 in offensive rating, #5 in defensive rating

    This Reggie Miller led team was a perennial contender from 1994-2000. During that time they made five conference finals and the NBA finals in 2000. They made three straight conference finals from 1998-2000.

    All-stars in 1997-98: Reggie Miller, Rik Smits
    HOFers: Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin?
    Players who were all-stars at some point in their career: Miller (5x), Mullin (5x), Smits (1x), Antonio Davis (1x), Dale Davis (1x, 2000), Jackson (1x)
    Other key players: Jalen Rose

    MVP caliber players: None.
    All-NBA players: Reggie Miller (3rd team)
    All-Defensive players: None

    Reggie Miller was 18th in points
    Mark Jackson was 3rd in assists
    Rik Smits was 19th in PER


    Summary

    Conference ranking of teams defeated in the NBA finals: #2, #1, #1, #1, #1, #1
    Conference ranking of teams defeated in the ECF: #3, #2*, #1, #2*, #2*, #2*
    *The Bulls were the #1 seed.

    Current all-stars faced in NBA finals: 2, 3, 2, 2, 2, 1
    Current all-stars faced in the ECF: 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2

    Players faced in the finals who were all-stars at some point: 4, 6, 6, 4, 3, 3
    Players faced in the ECF who were all-stars at some point: 3, 3, 6, 3, 4, 6

    HOF level players faced in the NBA finals: 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2
    HOF level players faced in the ECF: 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 2

    MVP level players faced in the NBA finals: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
    MVP level players faced in the ECF: 1, 0, 1, 2, 2, 0

    [/QUOTE]


    How old were Detroit's core players and did their performance decline? If so, was it due to age?

    Here are the ages of all their core players:

    Dumars: 27
    Thomas: 29
    Aguirre: 31
    Edwards: 35
    Johnson: 34
    Laimbeer: 33
    Rodman: 29
    Salley: 26

    Isn't the prime of a basketball player roughly between ages 27-30? If so, their two best players were within that range and their third leading scorer was just outside it at 31. Rodman was in his prime as well, Salley was about to enter it. Only Laimbeer, Edwards, and Johnson were truly old.

    Thomas 1988: 19.5/8.4/46%
    Thomas 1989: 18.2/8.3/46%
    Thomas 1990: 18.4/9.4/44%
    Thomas 1991: 16.2/9.3/44%

    In the case of Thomas there was a decline in scoring from the championship years, although his assists were actually higher than in his first title year and his field goal percentage was the same as in 1990. However, was this due to age?

    Thomas 1992: 18.5/7.2/45%

    His good 1992 campaign suggests his 1991 decline was due to injuries. He made every all-star team in the 90's except for his final season. He declined further in 1993 but 1994 is when he ceased being an all-star.

    Dumars 1988: 14.2/47%
    Dumars 1989: 17.2/50%
    Dumars 1990: 17.8/48%
    Dumars 1991: 20.4/48%

    Dumars was actually improving during this period, which is to be expected given his age. His best season was 1993 when he was 29 years old. Dumars made the all-star team as late as 1997 when he was 33.

    Aguirre 1989: 15.5/48% (his numbers in Detroit only)
    Aguirre 1990: 14.1/49%
    Aguirre 1991: 14.2/46%

    Aguirre showed no decline from 1990.

    Laimbeer 1988: 13.5/10/49%
    Laimbeer 1989: 14/10/50%
    Laimbeer 1990: 12/10/48%
    Laimbeer 1991: 11/9/48%

    He was a player clearly in decline, albeit a steady decline.

    Rodman 1988: 12/12/56%
    Rodman 1989: 9/9/60%
    Rodman 1990: 9/10/58%
    Rodman 1991: 8/13/58%

    Rodman was a player on the upswing. In 1992 he would shoot up to averaging 19 rebounds a game along with 10 points. He would lead the league in rebounding for the next seven years.

    Johnson 1988: 12/44%
    Johnson 1989: 14/46%
    Johnson 1990: 10/43%
    Johnson 1991: 12/43%

    Johnson was obviously past his prime but he was actually better in 1991 than in 1990.

    So Dumars, Rodman were improving players during this time. Laimbeer and Johnson were declining but Johnson in 1991 was better than in 1990. Isiah Thomas had a down year in 1991 but he rebounded in 1992.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    4,270
    vCash
    1500
    Hakeem over Duncan?

    Shaq over Kobe?


    Uhm, no.

    #24 Kobe "The Black Mamba" Bryant

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,685
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by asandhu23 View Post
    Why is Kareem higher than Wilt?
    As soon as I saw that, I stopped voting in this thread.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,569
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by kArSoN RyDaH View Post
    Hakeem over Duncan?

    Shaq over Kobe?


    Uhm, no.
    Hakeem over Duncan i could fly with that, Shaq over Kobe i completely agree.
    Knicks and 49ers!

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    32,664
    vCash
    1894
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    As soon as I saw that, I stopped voting in this thread.
    Thank you for that BTW
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    HCA (Homecourt Advantage)
    Posts
    65,519
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    As soon as I saw that, I stopped voting in this thread.
    You should provide an argument for Wilt then. This isn't just a simple vote in a poll and leave and get mad if people disagree when you are not providing any details on your opinion. "Chronz" for instance has Wilt #2 on his list all time, so for him I can understand why he would be upset when he provides details on his opinions.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Based
    Posts
    7,895
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by kArSoN RyDaH View Post
    Hakeem over Duncan?

    Shaq over Kobe?


    Uhm, no.
    Kobe over Duncan and Hakeem?


    Uhm, no.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    12,513
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by kArSoN RyDaH View Post
    Hakeem over Duncan?

    Shaq over Kobe?


    Uhm, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cano4prez View Post
    Kobe over Duncan and Hakeem?


    Uhm, no.
    The results are done, no point in getting into a statisticless debate over something that won't be changed.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,590
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Cano4prez View Post
    Kobe over Duncan and Hakeem?


    Uhm, no.
    uhm, yes

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,325
    vCash
    1500
    Bill Simmons doesn't even rank Bird ahead of Kobe.

Page 3 of 86 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •