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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostfaceDrilla View Post
    I'd still take Duncan and Hakeem over Shaq.
    Me too.

    Also how the hell did McGrady make it into the top 50? haha

    This should be THE list.

    http://www.austinbell.tv/bookofbasketball.html
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    AARON RODGERS

    *Super Bowl XLV Champion
    *Super Bowl XLV MVP
    *2011 NFL MVP

  2. #197
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    I would take out Kevin Mchale,Bill Walton,Sam Jones,and Tracy McGrady. Would insert Bernard King,Wes Unseld,Nate Thurmond,and Dave Debeshere. Though Walton was very good he just did not play enough years healthy. I believe that Alajuwon was a better all around center than Shaq. Steve Nash in my opinion is slightly better at his position than John Stockton. David Robinson and Scottie Pippen are rated too high.
    Last edited by jayjay16; 10-24-2011 at 04:02 PM. Reason: more info

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by hgtiger32 View Post
    Me too.

    Also how the hell did McGrady make it into the top 50? haha

    This should be THE list.

    http://www.austinbell.tv/bookofbasketball.html

    lol really?

    People like Horry or Sabonis and no Pau?

    the MOST you can drag him down in a list is to 65-75 positon

    I hope that list is from 4 or 5 years ago.
    ]

  4. #199
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    uhmm,,,barkley < lebron. can't use the championship argument there.

  5. #200
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    this list got real ****ed up toward the end

  6. #201
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    How did Ray Allen not even get nominated in the last thread? #fail

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayjay16 View Post
    I would take out Kevin Mchale,Bill Walton,Sam Jones,and Tracy McGrady. Would insert Bernard King,Wes Unseld,Nate Thurmond,and Dave Debeshere. Though Walton was very good he just did not play enough years healthy. I believe that Alajuwon was a better all around center than Shaq. Steve Nash in my opinion is slightly better at his position than John Stockton. David Robinson and Scottie Pippen are rated too high.
    Dave D while a great defender, but was a pathetic offensive player. Bernard King wasn't great long enough. Thurmond was inept offensively. Unseld played in a weak era and wasn't that special. OTOH I can't buy McGrady. And Walton? Nah. Not top 50. Way too high here.

    Meanwhile McHale was probably one of the 5 greatest low post offensive players of all time - AND - a First Team Defender that could cover anyone in the league from 6' 11" to 6' 5" - and did. He got the tougher offensive player every time he was on the floor of the two forwards, and sometimes Centers.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  8. #203
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    A terrible list overall.

  9. #204
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    will LBJ go higher if he wins even 1 championship?
    “You can’t worry about things you have no control over.”

    "Above and Beyond"

    -- Steve Nash

    "I don't even care how much I score.
    I just want to win."
    -- Ron Artest

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by naps View Post
    A terrible list overall.
    Not really that bad except for maybe a good 4-5 spots.
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJBASEBALL22 View Post
    I know I'm getting in on the conversation a little late, but I really dig this formula. It might not be perfect but it is really interesting. I do similar with baseball- top 3 seasons, top 5 consecutive- usually with OPS+ or ERA+ or whatever looks like their best years. I do value peak over longevity as long as it makes sense (ie. only one year of Shaq or 14 years of David Robinson- you have to go Robinson because of the window it gives you to win).

    So with your combined formula, you have:

    1. MJ
    2. Wilt (not that far off)
    3. Kareem
    4. Shaq
    5. Hakeem
    6. Duncan
    7. Dirk
    8. Jerry West
    9. Oscar
    10. Barkley

    The problem is... where are Magic and Larry? Both top five/ top seven players. Well they fit in with Magic tied for 11th with David Robinson and Bird at 14th, below Karl Malone, David Robinson, Dirk (who I actually think this formula does a great job ranking because as good as he has been, he is still underrated- definitely a top 15 player and a top 2-3 PF) and Charles Barkley. Well, I think the problem that comes in for Magic and Bird is that this formula is based off PER (or your adjusted PER). PER is a good indicator but it does have its flaws. It favors big men because it is very reliant on playing closer to the basket- it relies heavily on FG% and rebound rate... case in point Elton Brand (nice career) has a higher career PER than Scottie Pippen (a top 20 player), Gary Payton (top 10 pg all time), Clyde Drexler (a top 10 sg), Steve Nash (a top 10 pg) and John Stockton (a top 5 pg who has gaudy assist numbers and a great FG% for a guard). Also, it doesn't give many points for play making and actually get more credit for shooting more- one of the reasons Magic, Bird, Stockton, Nash, etc... are not close to where they should be ranked.
    I'm glad you liked my formula. As I believe I stated in the post, it's based purely on stats (and in the case of both WS and PER, they both have their flaws. I was hoping by combining the 2, it would help even out the 2) and as with all stats, it may not tell the whole picture. Certainly, you'd never catch me saying Bird and Magic aren't top 10 players because I think they are. However, it is somewhat interesting they ranked a bit lower.

    Anyways, I've actually created a thread in the NBA Stats forum where I've expanded on the formula and on the list of players. Here's the link: http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums...d.php?t=634461

    I expanded it to include best 10 years as well because well, dominating for a decade is something that should be rewarded.

    What I'd certainly hope this formula does is maybe poke at conventional wisdom and show us which guys might be a little overrated or a little underrated. As you mentioned with Dirk, I do believe he's underrated.

    But I'm glad you liked it. I've dedicated that thread in the Stats forum to both improving on the formula and adding more players.
    Patriots Forum HOF Class of 2011

  12. #207
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    I don't quite understand the Larry Bird > Kobe Bryant argument.
    I'm a Lakers fan...BUT:

    1) No I don't think Kobe > MJ

    2) No I don't think LeBron sucks.

    3) No I don't think it's funny to continuously make jokes about Charles Osborne.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitemamba33 View Post
    I don't quite understand the Larry Bird > Kobe Bryant argument.
    Sentimental attachment to Bird and the glory days of the 1980's. Birds stats aren't better, he wasn't a better defender, his peak wasn't more dominant, his longevity wasn't as long, he has less championships, and equal Finals MVPs. Bird does dominant Kobe in regular season MVP awards. Bird/Magic boost each-other in all-time rankings because of what they did for the NBA, brining it to the global stage and setting the table for MJ. I don't agree with it either, but I respect the hell out of Bird; warrior and champion of hard-work and dedication/grit. He had the intensity and mental dedication of a champion. Politics/team loyality aside, he's probably my second favorite player of all-time, even though he was a Celtic. I almost bought him on the 2k12 cover before Magic, but couldn't bring myself to such blasphemy.
    Last edited by Bruno87; 10-25-2011 at 07:50 PM.
    Dirk dominating at age 35

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno87 View Post
    Sentimental attachment to Bird and the glory days of the 1980's. Birds stats aren't better, he wasn't a better defender, his peak wasn't as dominant, his longevity wasn't as long, he has less championships, and equal Finals MVPs. Bird does dominant Kobe in regular season MVP awards. Bird/Magic boost each-other in all-time rankings because of what they did for the NBA, brining it to the global stage and setting the table for MJ. I don't agree with it either, but I respect the hell out of Bird; warrior and champion of hard-work and dedication/grit. He had the intensity and mental dedication of a champion.
    For sure. Don't get me wrong....i'll always be a HUGE Larry Legend fan. He's proof that you don't need to be able to be a genetic freak in order to make it into the league.

    It's just funny because I commonly hear two very different arguments on PSD when comparing player A to player B. A lot of times it's championships, and other times it's PER. Kobe has more championships, and has the exact same regular season PER as Bird..BUT Kobe has a higher playoff PER. So really, Kobe wins it both ways. And according to this list, Kobe isn't even in the spot right behind Bird, let alone in front of him like he should be.
    I'm a Lakers fan...BUT:

    1) No I don't think Kobe > MJ

    2) No I don't think LeBron sucks.

    3) No I don't think it's funny to continuously make jokes about Charles Osborne.

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno87 View Post
    Sentimental attachment to Bird and the glory days of the 1980's. Birds stats aren't better, he wasn't a better defender, his peak wasn't more dominant, his longevity wasn't as long, he has less championships, and equal Finals MVPs. Bird does dominant Kobe in regular season MVP awards. Bird/Magic boost each-other in all-time rankings because of what they did for the NBA, brining it to the global stage and setting the table for MJ. I don't agree with it either, but I respect the hell out of Bird; warrior and champion of hard-work and dedication/grit. He had the intensity and mental dedication of a champion. Politics/team loyality aside, he's probably my second favorite player of all-time, even though he was a Celtic. I almost bought him on the 2k12 cover before Magic, but couldn't bring myself to such blasphemy.
    Bingo

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