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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyonthespot View Post
    this might be off topic but how about trading for or sending an offersheet to ted purcell or dubinsky....i know both will be getting in the 3mill range but with the teams that need to hit cap minimum we could easily make moves

    both tampa and NY are going to struggle to sign them

    well like joeyc has said numerous times, extending an offer sheet to a player is just considered bad form and is frowned upon.

    the purcell situation will be more clear once stamkos is signed/traded. whenever that occurs, purcell will be dealt i imagine.

    as for dubinsky, i doubt the rangers would trade him to a division opponent, especially one they hate so much.


    honestly there isn't much room for either of those players on the roster. however, if the price is right, i could see it happening.


    i'd be more interested in purcell. if dubinsky shaved his stupid mustache maybe i'd warm up to him more

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    well like joeyc has said numerous times, extending an offer sheet to a player is just considered bad form and is frowned upon.

    the purcell situation will be more clear once stamkos is signed/traded. whenever that occurs, purcell will be dealt i imagine.

    as for dubinsky, i doubt the rangers would trade him to a division opponent, especially one they hate so much.


    honestly there isn't much room for either of those players on the roster. however, if the price is right, i could see it happening.


    i'd be more interested in purcell. if dubinsky shaved his stupid mustache maybe i'd warm up to him more
    the whole frowned upon thing is funny......flyers have sent offersheets out before or have made it known they will send an offersheet out if they can't get a trade done. if you look at how many trades the flyers have done in the offseason about 50% have been them picking up RFA. look over the past 15 years.

    we do no business with the ranger now and why would it be bad for business for homer to send an offersheet to dubinsky?
    not many GMs like sathers so other teams wouldn't care and it would just make the rivalry and the winter classic that much better

    and we did it to tampa before (gratton) and don't see why we couldn't again.

    I think what we have on paper is what we are going to have for the opener but i was just throwing out a "why not try" opinion

    dubinsky would be a perfect match for this team though.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyonthespot View Post
    the whole frowned upon thing is funny......flyers have sent offersheets out before or have made it known they will send an offersheet out if they can't get a trade done. if you look at how many trades the flyers have done in the offseason about 50% have been them picking up RFA. look over the past 15 years.

    we do no business with the ranger now and why would it be bad for business for homer to send an offersheet to dubinsky?
    not many GMs like sathers so other teams wouldn't care and it would just make the rivalry and the winter classic that much better

    and we did it to tampa before (gratton) and don't see why we couldn't again.

    I think what we have on paper is what we are going to have for the opener but i was just throwing out a "why not try" opinion

    dubinsky would be a perfect match for this team though.

    that's a trade. you're talking about signing them to an offer sheet. completely different things. the Flyers do make a lot of trades for RFAs, but only twice in my memory can i remember them extending an offer sheet to a player, and only once did they succeed in signing that player, chris gratton.

    this explains the gratton situation:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/k...atton/recent/3


    the other was ryan kesler, which obviously failed.


    point being, it just isn't easy to sign a player to an offer sheet that the current team can't/won't match.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    that's a trade. you're talking about signing them to an offer sheet. completely different things. the Flyers do make a lot of trades for RFAs, but only twice in my memory can i remember them extending an offer sheet to a player, and only once did they succeed in signing that player, chris gratton.



    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/k...atton/recent/3


    the other was ryan kesler, which obviously failed.


    point being, it just isn't easy to sign a player to an offer sheet that the current team can't/won't match.
    dude i know chris grattons situation they said there fax machine didnt work and cried about it..... the nhl granted it

    point being this you send an offersheet and dick them over either way ei sharks/hawks last year or oilers/ducks years back.

    its a win win for the flyers if they did this. they either get a good player or tampa/rangers need to buck up for them. then causing more problems signing player in the near future.

    this explains the gratton situation (the offer sheet was nixed but they traded him here (they had to keep that queer esposito happy):

    http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/twocen...-chris-gratton
    Last edited by johnnyonthespot; 07-15-2011 at 03:51 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyonthespot View Post
    dude i know chris grattons situation they said there fax machine didnt work and cried about it..... the nhl granted it

    point being this you send an offersheet and dick them over either way ei sharks/hawks last year or oilers/ducks years back.

    its a win win for the flyers if they did this. they either get a good player or tampa/rangers need to buck up for them. then causing more problems signing player in the near future.

    this kind of attitude works in leagues like the NBA, NFL, and MLB, but in the NHL it doesn't fly. there's a respect in hockey that isn't found in other sports. players actually respect their peers and their organizations and the sport they play. they actually care about the sanctity of the game, and it's why i love hockey and have much more respect for this sport than any other.

    "dicking them over" is exactly the kind of attitude that gets you a bad reputation around the league and severely hurts your chances of making deals with not just TB or NYR, but any team in the future.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    this kind of attitude works in leagues like the NBA, NFL, and MLB, but in the NHL it doesn't fly. there's a respect in hockey that isn't found in other sports. players actually respect their peers and their organizations and the sport they play. they actually care about the sanctity of the game, and it's why i love hockey and have much more respect for this sport than any other.

    "dicking them over" is exactly the kind of attitude that gets you a bad reputation around the league and severely hurts your chances of making deals with not just TB or NYR, but any team in the future.
    i don't see where this "doesn't fly in the nhl".........because it has happened more over the past 5 years then in the previous 10 years. why because the new nhl is set up for BUSINESS like moves. if you don't get the man you sent the offer sheet to then you also win because you make the other team have to get creative to make room. which then could benefit you just like the sharks sending one to Hjalmarsson then causing the hawks to let go niemi and the sharks grabbing him getting niemi

    you can't compare the nba mlb or nfl to the nhl. business wise the nhl is totally different then those 3.
    Last edited by johnnyonthespot; 07-15-2011 at 04:10 PM.

  7. #37
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    ^ he got you

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGPHIFLYSIX View Post
    ^ he got you
    got what

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyonthespot View Post
    i don't see where this "doesn't fly in the nhl".........because it has happened more over the past 5 years then in the previous 10 years. why because the new nhl is set up for BUSINESS like moves. if you don't get the man you sent the offer sheet to then you also win because you make the other team have to get creative to make room. which then could benefit you just like the sharks sending one to Hjalmarsson then causing the hawks to let go niemi and the sharks grabbing him getting niemi

    you can't compare the nba mlb or nfl to the nhl. business wise the nhl is totally different then those 3.

    i know it's different, and the reason is because it's not nearly as cut-throat. there's a respect there that isn't present in the other sports.

    people have made more offer sheets recently, but no one is really signing them. only one i can remember is penner going to the oilers, and look how that back-fired on them. he's not there anymore, and the rest of the league won't deal with them.

    the sharks getting niemi is more of a coincidence than a strategic move. and in all honesty, it worked out perfect for chicago, because they like crawford better anyway, and for good reason. niemi would've been gone regardless. chicago won that ordeal. they kept their defenseman and got better between the pipes.

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGPHIFLYSIX View Post
    ^ he got you
    i don't know who you're talking to....

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    i know it's different, and the reason is because it's not nearly as cut-throat. there's a respect there that isn't present in the other sports.

    people have made more offer sheets recently, but no one is really signing them. only one i can remember is penner going to the oilers, and look how that back-fired on them. he's not there anymore, and the rest of the league won't deal with them.

    the sharks getting niemi is more of a coincidence than a strategic move. and in all honesty, it worked out perfect for chicago, because they like crawford better anyway, and for good reason. niemi would've been gone regardless. chicago won that ordeal. they kept their defenseman and got better between the pipes.
    yo boss ducks and oilers just made a deal about a week ago cogliano for a 2nd rd...so the two teams involved in that ordeal have made trades since, so much for losing respect for a team.....and where do you get the rest of the nhl won't deal with the oilers anymore? you're just talking out your *** now

    oilers have had no problems making trades or even unloading penner contract to the kings or getting back a player they wanted in smyth a few weeks ago

    better between the pipes? niemi's won a cup and took the sharks to the semifinals........crawford is not better now or won't be. chicago overpaid to keep a mediocre Dman (3.5mill) you think he is worth that much?
    Last edited by johnnyonthespot; 07-15-2011 at 06:35 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyonthespot View Post
    yo boss ducks and oilers just made a deal about a week ago cogliano for a 2nd rd...so the two teams involved in that ordeal have made trades since, so much for losing respect for a team.....and where do you get the rest of the nhl won't deal with the oilers anymore? you're just talking out your *** now

    oilers have had no problems making trades or even unloading penner contract to the kings or getting back a player they wanted in smyth a few weeks ago

    better between the pipes? niemi's won a cup and took the sharks to the semifinals........crawford is not better now or won't be. chicago overpaid to keep a mediocre Dman (3.5mill) you think he is worth that much?

    niemi won a cup against a team who had michael leighton as their starting goalie. yeah, real impressive.


    and the oilers made a few deals, sure. i never said they can't make any deals at all. the big offer sheet that's been coming back to bite the oilers was when they tried to sign vanek away.


    ask anyone: they'll tell you the oilers have had some problems since Vanek.



    really isn't even the point. once again you're mentioning trades. this has to do with offer sheets. how many times do you see players actually getting signed away from their current team for an offer sheet? it's a very low success rate.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyonthespot View Post
    i don't see where this "doesn't fly in the nhl".........because it has happened more over the past 5 years then in the previous 10 years. why because the new nhl is set up for BUSINESS like moves. if you don't get the man you sent the offer sheet to then you also win because you make the other team have to get creative to make room. which then could benefit you just like the sharks sending one to Hjalmarsson then causing the hawks to let go niemi and the sharks grabbing him getting niemi

    you can't compare the nba mlb or nfl to the nhl. business wise the nhl is totally different then those 3.
    You're right, the NHL is a business and it's a bad business practice to sign players to offer sheets. It's not a win win for the Flyers...its a lose-lose because most likely they will not get the player they signed and then other teams will feel obligated to return the favor when players like JVR becomes a RFA. Sports leagues are unique because even though they are techincally a business, they must fuction within the community of the NHL. Signing player like Stamkos or Dubinsky to an OS is acheiving nothing more than driving up the price of those players because both NY & TB can simply match the offer. I believe it was Vancouever and ST Louis that signed each others player to an OS last season, which did neither team any favors. I'm not saying its right, but the NHL GMs do not take kindly to teams just signing players to OS to drive up the price...its bad business.

  13. #43
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    ^on jvr, or the flyers could stop waiting so ****ing long to sign a rfa and sing him during the season to avoid the whole thing, its stupid how players as highly touted as doughty stamkos and company havnt been signed and idc if they have as long as they want i think its selfish and un-professional


    FLYERS/EAGLES

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giroux 4 MVP View Post
    ^on jvr, or the flyers could stop waiting so ****ing long to sign a rfa and sing him during the season to avoid the whole thing, its stupid how players as highly touted as doughty stamkos and company havnt been signed and idc if they have as long as they want i think its selfish and un-professional

    it's not the team dragging their feet so much as the players wanting to wait it out. the longer you wait as the player, the more leverage you gain, and the more money you make. or, in the case of phil kessel or maybe steven stamkos, you wait, because you don't want to play for that team and end up forcing a trade. it's very selfish on the player's part, but hey, it is a business, and it goes both ways.


    with the Flyers, their problem is that they put themselves up tight against the cap every year, so signing players in season is hard to do. maybe this extra cap space is what their going to use on a JVR extension instead of another player coming in. that's definitely something to look out for IMO.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    - - - - - with the Flyers, their problem is that they put themselves up tight against the cap every year, so signing players in season is hard to do.

    maybe this extra cap space is what their going to use on a JVR extension instead of another player coming in. that's definitely something to look out for IMO.
    The significant Flyers who will be free agents at the end of next season are UFAs Jagr, Coburn, and Carle - and RFAs vanRiemsdyk and Voracek.

    The club's pressure is to get new contracts (unofficially called "extension") for the valued, and wanted, impending UFAs, ie: Coburn and Carle. (For those suddenly thinking - "Carle?" - no, the club would not want Carle to go to UFA and walk away without compensation to the Flyers.)

    The other UFA, Jagr, is a "wait and see".

    For the club, there is no pressure to sign the RFAs during this prior year. In fact there could be strategy to wait, pending how "tagged" Cap Space evolves.

    Also, with a rising player like Voracek, usually the agent strongly advises the player to wait to after the season which the player is expected to excel.


    CBA

    Article 50.5

    >> (f) Contract Extensions.

    (i) An “extension” of an SPC [Standard Player Contract], as such term is used in this Agreement, shall mean a new SPC entered into between a Club and a Player, which SPC is to be effective immediately upon the expiration of the Club and Player’s existing SPC.

    To the extent a Club and Player enter into a valid contract extension during the final year of the Player’s SPC, the contract extension will be fully enforceable pursuant to its terms even in the event the Player is injured prior to the commencement date of the contract extension.

    (ii) A Club that wishes to sign a Player to an “extension” of an existing SPC, may do so only in the final year of such SPC.

    (iii) A Club shall only be permitted to sign a Player to an “extension” of the existing SPC in the amount of: (A) the SPC of the Player to be extended (then included in the Club’s Averaged Club Salary); plus (B) the Club’s Payroll Room [Cap Space] in the current year; plus (C) the aggregate Averaged Amounts of any other SPC or SPCs that expire at the end of such League Year (to extent the Club has other such SPCs which are currently counting in the Club’s Averaged Club Salary); minus any previously Tagged Payroll Room. The Tagging Rule referred to in paragraph (e)(iv)(C) above will thereafter apply.

    Illustration #1: A Club, during the 2005-06 League Year, has $1.5 million of Payroll Room, and it has $4 million in Averaged Amount of SPCs scheduled to expire at the end of the 2005-06 League Year, including the $1 million Averaged Amount of Player B’s SPC. The Club may “extend” Player B’s SPC during the 2005-06 League Year with Player Salary and Bonuses of up to an Averaged Amount of $5.5 million, and the Club shall be deemed to have $5.5 million of Tagged Payroll Room. <<

    >> (iv) A Player who is party to a one-year SPC may not enter into an “extension” of such SPC prior to January 1 of the League Year covered by such SPC.

    (v) No Entry Level SPC may be “extended” under this Agreement. <<



    Flyers' players with expiring contracts after next season, in addition to the 5 mentioned above, are Laperriere and Betts.

    Impending RFA vanRiemsdyk can not get a contract extension during this coming season because he is coming off an Entry Level SPC. It must wait until July 1, 2012.



    `
    Last edited by ABRO; 07-16-2011 at 12:18 PM.

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