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Thread: Defense

  1. #61
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    Just cause wete paying him 2 doesn't mean he's making 2. The mans making 4 a year

  2. #62
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    We're*, and what I'm trying to say is you can't compare him to Rupp, the price tag isn't remotely close

  3. #63
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    He costs us 1.9 on the books. That's what we'd free up by getting rid of him. It's been a ****ing awesome contract for us.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Avery's minutes have gone from a 16 average to about 11 under Torts. You're not going to get any more production from a 2 million player seeing that kind of ice time. We just gave Mike Rupp 1.5 and he's most likely not going to match Avery's production assuming Torts plays them equally.

    For arguments sake, what kind of production do you expect from a guy who's making that kind of money?
    Well, for arguments sake, Tyler Kennedy, Blake Wheeler, Anthony Stewart, Brian Boyle, Fedetenko, Prust, etc....are all players which contribute more to their teams for that kind of $$, or less.

    Look, like I said, Avery can be a solid 4th line winger. But let's be serious and not make him out to a potential 2nd or 1st line player, as some have suggested. He isn't even a 3rd line winger on the Rangers, or most other teams. And, he is very inconsistent. He looks great in a few games and then the next 7-10 games does nothing or, worse, hurts the team.

    Rupp may or may not match Avery's production; time will tell. Yet, Rupp in my view will make many other contributions that Avery will not.

    Finally, Avery's minutes are a function of his performance, not the other way around. If his play dictated more ice time, I am sure he would get it.

  5. #65
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    Fust an FYI look at Avery's production while he has been a Ranger:

    06-07 GP 29 G 8 A 12 PTS 20
    07-08 GP 57 G 15 A 18 PTS 33
    08-09 GP 18 G 5 A 7 PTS 12
    09-10 GP 69 G 11 A 20 PTS 31
    10-11 GP 76 G 3 A 21 PTS 24

    So in terms of production he hasnt been a force in the last 2 yrs and 3 yrs ago it was only for a very small amount of games.

  6. #66
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    I think Avery is a better player than he shows on most nights, and that's what frustrates me. He can play but he seems to only play against certain teams and he's inconsistant, so for a coach that's hard to figure out, which Avery are you gonna get tonight because he can help you win when he's on but when he's not on, he costs us games. It may be different this year if our powerplay gets going and we have more offense with Richards where a penalty here or there doesn't hurt us but the last couple years we were winning our games by a goal and a penalty was the difference between winning and losing. I really liked how he played with Boyle and Prust in the playoffs, but he has to show up like he did in playoffs from day 1.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redfish View Post
    Well, for arguments sake, Tyler Kennedy, Blake Wheeler, Anthony Stewart, Brian Boyle, Fedetenko, Prust, etc....are all players which contribute more to their teams for that kind of $$, or less.

    Look, like I said, Avery can be a solid 4th line winger. But let's be serious and not make him out to a potential 2nd or 1st line player, as some have suggested. He isn't even a 3rd line winger on the Rangers, or most other teams. And, he is very inconsistent. He looks great in a few games and then the next 7-10 games does nothing or, worse, hurts the team.

    Rupp may or may not match Avery's production; time will tell. Yet, Rupp in my view will make many other contributions that Avery will not.

    Finally, Avery's minutes are a function of his performance, not the other way around. If his play dictated more ice time, I am sure he would get it.

    Four of those guys were signed as RFA's and Avery has given us just as much as Prust and IMO more. Avery would put up more points than Fedetenko if you flipped their ice time. Torts doesn't like Avery. The second Torts took over he cut his minutes.
    Last edited by fingerbang; 07-15-2011 at 01:13 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Four of those guys were signed as RFA's and Avery has given us just as much as Prust and IMO more. Avery would put up more points than Fedetenko if you flipped their ice time. Torts doesn't like Avery. The second Torts took over he cut his minutes.
    Honestly who cares about those guys. The reality is that Avery has only broken 40 pts once in his career and that was way back in 06-07. Christ in less games last year scored more pts then him and he had a lot less playing time then Avery.

    2 mill is a lot of money for a guy that if he has a good season puts up 30 pts while registering 174 penalty minutes unless he is an enforcer and Avery is not an enforcer by any means. We all know Prust and Rupp will be our enforcers. Christ as much as i want him gone is a better offensive option for less money.

    Like i said before the only thing avery brings is his ability to agitate and we all know its not working anymore. Refs are onto him and his antics are not flying anymore. He is a redundency on this team, thats why some of us want him gone.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by commonsense12 View Post
    Honestly who cares about those guys. The reality is that Avery has only broken 40 pts once in his career and that was way back in 06-07. Christ in less games last year scored more pts then him and he had a lot less playing time then Avery.

    2 mill is a lot of money for a guy that if he has a good season puts up 30 pts while registering 174 penalty minutes unless he is an enforcer and Avery is not an enforcer by any means. We all know Prust and Rupp will be our enforcers. Christ as much as i want him gone is a better offensive option for less money.

    Like i said before the only thing avery brings is his ability to agitate and we all know its not working anymore. Refs are onto him and his antics are not flying anymore. He is a redundency on this team, thats why some of us want him gone.
    It really isn't. Throw in the fact that points aren't everything. Avery skates hard, digs in the corners, and throws his body around.

    I'm done arguing. It's funny how quickly the fans turn on a player.

    *BTW Avery prorates to about a 40 pt average given legitimate ice time and a full season worth of games.

    2011 free agents signings similar to Avery's Cap hit:

    Chris Higgins: 1.9
    Max Talbot: 1.8
    Andrew Brunette: 2
    Last edited by fingerbang; 07-15-2011 at 02:05 PM.

  10. #70
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    How did a thread on defense get turned into an Avery argument? It's the second thread that its happened to.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MentalHockey View Post
    How did a thread on defense get turned into an Avery argument? It's the second thread that its happened to.
    XD hahaha. Well to put my $.02 in, I feel like Avery could put up the points IF he tried hard enough, which in turn would give him more time. Those nights he was digging for the puck every time he was out were great examples, but the next time he'd play that would disappear and Torts would sit/scratch him. Brian Boyle was getting the same treatment until night in and night out he was putting in endless effort for the team. I don't think its as much of a problem with Torts as you think it is. I feel like Torts probably doesn't like him, but he's still a professional. He just needs to work a little harder. He did great in the assist dept., but I'd like to see between 10-15 goals from the guy. Technically he is earning 4mil. I've loved Avery since he's been in NY so don't say I'm hating on him, I'd just like to see a little more production out of him.

    And whoever said he has more production than Prust, you're out of your freakin mind. Prust sticks up for everyone. He's always skating his hardest. He can also score some goals too and set people up. I'm not knocking either of them, but Prust is a better pest/enforcer. He keeps it within the boundaries so he won't get dogged by zebras every night he plays.

    And how bout that defense huh? To get back on topic, I'd like to say our defense has evolved a lot over the past couple years. No more Redden or Rozy (even though I have his autograph haha), our young guys are proving themselves (McDonaugh, Sauer, and others soon), and hopefully our vets will give them a thing or two to learn.

  12. #72
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    Yeah, back on topic: 'Hawks signed Lepisto for $750k (no great loss to the Rangers), and have decided in advance to walk away from Campoli's arbitration award, so he will be an UFA. Problem is his cap hit was $1.4 mil last season and combined with whatever bump he gets in arbitration, the Rangers won't have the room to sign him. I suppose it's looking more like Eminger is coming back as the 7th, but they're likely to go into camp with just the kids and after that gets sorted out add Eminger or someone like him before they head overseas for the opener.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashripdot View Post
    Yeah, back on topic: 'Hawks signed Lepisto for $750k (no great loss to the Rangers), and have decided in advance to walk away from Campoli's arbitration award, so he will be an UFA. Problem is his cap hit was $1.4 mil last season and combined with whatever bump he gets in arbitration, the Rangers won't have the room to sign him. I suppose it's looking more like Eminger is coming back as the 7th, but they're likely to go into camp with just the kids and after that gets sorted out add Eminger or someone like him before they head overseas for the opener.
    not to once again go off topic... but i will be at the rangers v ducks game in stockholm!!!!! cant wait!!!

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    It really isn't. Throw in the fact that points aren't everything. Avery skates hard, digs in the corners, and throws his body around.

    I'm done arguing. It's funny how quickly the fans turn on a player.

    *BTW Avery prorates to about a 40 pt average given legitimate ice time and a full season worth of games.

    2011 free agents signings similar to Avery's Cap hit:

    Chris Higgins: 1.9
    Max Talbot: 1.8
    Andrew Brunette: 2
    We have plenty of guys who dig pucks out from the boards, body check and skate hard. BTW Avery doesnt do this every game. In fact he was invisible for large portions of the season. Hence why his ice time was cut.

    How quickly people turn? His worst seasons as a Ranger were his last 2. So 2 seasons is pretty quick? Plus on top of that last season was not just bad it was terrible. 3 goals is just unacceptable for any player that is not a goon.

    You cant prorate ice time and say thats how players will perform. The reality is Avery did not perform last season while he was on the ice so he got less ice time. Others players that were doing better then him received more ice time. I mena who are you going to take ice time away from? Christ, Prust and MZA all were better players then him last year and more effective.

    Also comparing him to FA signings doesnt make sense. When Avery hit FA he got signed for 4 mill per year, its only after our waiver claim we got him for 2 mill. Plus the cap was way lower back then so in theory similar players should make more money today in free agency as players of a few years ago.

  15. #75
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    Avery can neither play every night, nor get significant icetime on this team anymore. With all back in the fold, which I think we're all assuming will be the case, there are too may forwards in the mix in front of him to make that option realistic or justifiable.

    Assuming all are back, the top 9 forwards are likely to be:
    Richards, Gaborik, Dubinsky, Callahan, Anisimov, Stepan, Boyle, Prust, and Fedotenko.

    That's 8 of 9 from last year, and Richards is certainly in that group.

    That list excludes Wolski, MZA, and Christensen, all of whom out-produced Avery last year. And those guys are all on the bubble in their own way.

    It is possible that Wolski and MZA play top 9 minutes/roles, but if that is the case, then some combo of Boyle Prust and Feds is the 4th line. With the addition of Rupp, and the slight possibility of own of the prospects making the team out of camp, Avery has his work cut out for him.

    I think he'll make the team, but I think he's an extra forward at this point.

    As it stands right now, assuming Dubi and Cally are back, there are 5 guys playing for those last 3 starting spots among the forward group.

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