Blockbuster Possibility - Stamkos - 7/2/11

[Philly4for4Phan]

if it's Meszaros, they can't do that deal. that would just deplete their D corp too much.

even with carle, idk why but i just have such a hard time taking that deal. i just don't see schenn going anywhere, the way they talk about him and the fact that he was introduced at the presser and given a number and all that jazz. just doesn't add up.

and personally, i don't see couturier going anywhere, either. this kid has serious skill. for him to fall to #7 seriously was just unacceptable. GMs all over the NHL are going to be kicking themselves in a few years for letting him fall that far.


take one of the young 3, throw a bunch of first round picks in there and add carle and i'll take the deal. otherwise, i think it's best they walk away and watch these young guys grow.

Bob is the only acceptable loss of the big three. Maybe Schenn, only because its only a center for center deal, potential versus proven(even though i think Schenn could be a beast and a top player in the league, given the right situations.... plus as stated by someone else He had a number assigned to him and a press conference to introduce him.... just seemed like a lot for a player to be traded away.

Also on trading either Giroux or JVR away "straight up" or even as part of a package for Stamkos is just plain dumb. Straight would never happen, even if it did I wouldn't want to lose either one of them. They have chemistry together and Giroux's playmaking ability will do well along side JVR as a great power forward(which are hard to find IMO). I understand that Stamkos is a prolific goal scorer, and if he turns out how it seems, which may or may not happen, will only get better.

In my head, one of Bob/Schenn, Carle, plus many picks is what I'd want. Probably would never happen, but thats what I'd want.

[phillyeaglesman]

Bob is the only acceptable loss of the big three. Maybe Schenn, only because its only a center for center deal, potential versus proven(even though i think Schenn could be a beast and a top player in the league, given the right situations.... plus as stated by someone else He had a number assigned to him and a press conference to introduce him.... just seemed like a lot for a player to be traded away.

Also on trading either Giroux or JVR away "straight up" or even as part of a package for Stamkos is just plain dumb. Straight would never happen, even if it did I wouldn't want to lose either one of them. They have chemistry together and Giroux's playmaking ability will do well along side JVR as a great power forward(which are hard to find IMO). I understand that Stamkos is a prolific goal scorer, and if he turns out how it seems, which may or may not happen, will only get better.

In my head, one of Bob/Schenn, Carle, plus many picks is what I'd want. Probably would never happen, but thats what I'd want.

that was me


and i totally agree with the rest. it's not likely to occur, but who knows really. the longer this drags out, the worse it becomes for TB. just let this thing drag on as long as it can and see what happens.

no point rushing into a trade like this.

[GagneFan4Life]

Yes, all of the Flyers' on-ice sessions at Camp are open to the public.

In-season practices are all open to the public except during playoff time when the coaching staff may want to have some private practices.

The Camp schedule and player roster is usually announced about a week before the start date. We all will be watching the Flyers web site for that announcement in early September:

http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/

The Camp Guide is a great thing to have. It includes extensive info on all the players and includes pictures. It can be downloaded and printed from the Flyers web site announcement. Also, if you can make contact with the right people at Camp, you may be able to get the actual color Camp Guide.

If I'm reading between the lines of your post correctly, yes, you can talk with the players and get autographs in the front parking lot as they arrive, and as they depart, "to and from" their east side secured parking area.

`

Thanks so much for all the information. And thank you, Ace23, too! I really appreciate it. I used to go to practices and chase players down in the parking lot, but that was back in the Primeau days, so it has been a while. But I'd love to see some camp and watch some practices, so I appreciate all the information. Very helpful! Thanks again.

[PhillyForevr215]

In All of this stamkos drama, did anybody hear that he might go to LA?. There Talking Mike Richards/Bierner or jack johnson + whatever else. I feel like they would be favorites if there really was a "stamkos sweepstakes".

And Btw Ecklund is out of his ****ing mind if he think We'd Give up Schenn, Jvr, And Courtier, and more.

[ABRO]

In All of this stamkos drama, did anybody hear that he might go to LA?. There Talking Mike Richards/Bierner or jack johnson + whatever else. I feel like they would be favorites if there really was a "stamkos sweepstakes"

Yes. Check the last few pages of this thread.


`

[PhillyForevr215]

Yes. Check the last few pages of this thread.


`

Ah. I see. Just saying at that point i wouldint even bother going for stamkos.

[Hatch]

those 3 and hartnell won't be here, but the core will: schenn, couturier, giroux, JVR, simmonds, voracek, Bryz, Coburn, Meszaros, Gustaffson. this is the team.


you got all those guys that in 5 years will be some early 30's but most mid to late 20's. that's a scary thought, no?

.

Well if you asked us years ago we'd have said that Carter and Richards were our core of the future and we'd be adding Brad Richards this year to play with them. That didn't turn out to be too prophetic it would seem. And we can all be hopeful that the scouting reports on Schenn and Couturier are on target. But in reality you've also used three guys that have barely even taken a shift in NHL games and proclaimed the "core" five years from now. We're HOPING that...but Homer sitting here eyeballing Stamkos five years from now based on that is too much of a reach. The other side of that is that if all those players listed play up to the potential and remain that "core" of the future then they will all be picking up the paychecks of 20 something Free Agents in the prime of their careers and affording a Stamkos caliber guy would most likely not be likely. The point is there are just way too many factors to dream about the possibility of picking a guy up after his next contract.......nothing stays static enough to even plan that.

Sure it's a nice thought.......but thinking about his free agency five years from now isn't even in the ballpark of considerations. The only thing we need to consider in thinking about a potential trade is if the move makes us a better team in years 1 through 4 or 5. Let's be realistic, how many players stay on the same team for that long anyway? Heck, take almost every player we have......I don't know the answer to this..but off the top of my head who do we have on our team right now that's either been with us for 5 years or played for a minimum of 5 years with their previous team?.....I'm guessing that's a VERY low number.

[phillyeaglesman]

Well if you asked us years ago we'd have said that Carter and Richards were our core of the future and we'd be adding Brad Richards this year to play with them. That didn't turn out to be too prophetic it would seem. And we can all be hopeful that the scouting reports on Schenn and Couturier are on target. But in reality you've also used three guys that have barely even taken a shift in NHL games and proclaimed the "core" five years from now. We're HOPING that...but Homer sitting here eyeballing Stamkos five years from now based on that is too much of a reach. The other side of that is that if all those players listed play up to the potential and remain that "core" of the future then they will all be picking up the paychecks of 20 something Free Agents in the prime of their careers and affording a Stamkos caliber guy would most likely not be likely. The point is there are just way too many factors to dream about the possibility of picking a guy up after his next contract.......nothing stays static enough to even plan that.

Sure it's a nice thought.......but thinking about his free agency five years from now isn't even in the ballpark of considerations. The only thing we need to consider in thinking about a potential trade is if the move makes us a better team in years 1 through 4 or 5. Let's be realistic, how many players stay on the same team for that long anyway? Heck, take almost every player we have......I don't know the answer to this..but off the top of my head who do we have on our team right now that's either been with us for 5 years or played for a minimum of 5 years with their previous team?.....I'm guessing that's a VERY low number.

hartnell was with the preds for 6 years; comin up on 5 years with Flyers

jagr was with the pens for a long time

lappy was with the kings for 9 years

talbot was with the penguins for 6 years

coburn with the Flyers for 5 years

lilja with the wings for 5 years

pronger with the blues for a long time

timonen with the preds for 8 years; comin up on 5 years for Flyers

briere with coyotes for 6 years; comin up on 5 with Flyers

bryzgalov was 6 years with ducks


long list, but most were around 5 or 6 years.


i know what you're saying. and i'm not really for the Flyers waiting til stamkos is a UFA if he ever becomes one. all i'm saying is they have a nice young core that can grow together as a unit. they'll lose contracts like timonen, hartnell, briere, and pronger over the next 4 years so they'll have money to keep all these guys around.

i know these guys (schenn and couturier) are all based on potential, but it's not potential like you have absolutely no idea what these guys are going to do. schenn is considered by EVERY GM in the league to be the best player outside of the NHL right now. every GM in the league was trying to pry this kid away from LA. if it's unanimous, the kid can play, and he can play really well.

couturier was ranked as the #1 prospect in hockey coming into this past season. had he not come down with a serious case of mono, he probably would've gone #1 or #2. it's widely considered around the league that the Flyers got an absolute steal at #7 with couturier. this kid led the QMJHL in points when he was 17. he's also won a QMJHL championship.


these are blue-chip prospects we're talking about here. it's going to be a lot harder for them to miss than it is for them to hit.


stamkos is more of a sure thing; i get that. but with the money it's going to cost to sign him, it's going to be sooner rather than later that the Flyers will have to start shedding players like giroux, jvr, simmonds, couturier, and voracek.

depth is the key to a champion; stamkos takes away from that depth.

[Ace23]

I see you two failed to mention the main meaning of my post which was JVR for Stamkos straight up. If either one of you wouldn't pull off this hypothetical trade, neither of you have any business being on here.
Of course this trade can't be done because of $$$, but then Stamkos is a superstar, and JVR currently a middle of the road forward that has above average potential at best.

Do us all a favor and read my post where I said:

I don't think Yzerman is going to offer Stamkos for JVR + picks anytime soon, so yeah.

And if he did, I'd say take it. But that's not going to happen, so let's move on.

Now that we have that settled, let's move on.

JVR has "above average potential at best".

Considering most scouting reports project JVR to be a "first line" to "elite" talent, I'd say "above average potential at best" is wrong. That is, unless you know more than professional scouts. Do you?

Let's compare, though. Just for funsies.

Steven Stamkos, year #1:

GP: 79 G: 23 A:23 P:46 TOI: 14:57 SOG: 181 S%: 12.7

James van Reimsdyk, year #2:

GP: 75 G:21 A:19 P:40 TOI: 14:31 SOG:173 S%: 12.1


Now tell me how you KNOW that JVR is at best a "career 30 goal player". Tell me.

Look at those statistics. Go ask anyone who is familiar with the NHL game, and they'll tell you that power forwards develop at a slower pace than snipers. How slow? That's a funny question. It just so happens that most power forwards tend to lag 1-2 NHL seasons behind their counterparts.

Why might that be? Funny you should ask. It usually has something to do with those players filling out their frame, getting used to dealing with NHL-levels of punishment, and becoming comfortable using their size and strength to drive their offensive game.

Am I saying JVR will ever be Stamkos? NO. Am I saying he does have 40 goal potential? Yes. 50 goal potential? Maybe.

Any more ridiculous comments you'd care to share?

[Skip25]

hartnell was with the preds for 6 years; comin up on 5 years with Flyers

jagr was with the pens for a long time

lappy was with the kings for 9 years

talbot was with the penguins for 6 years

coburn with the Flyers for 5 years

lilja with the wings for 5 years

pronger with the blues for a long time

timonen with the preds for 8 years; comin up on 5 years for Flyers

briere with coyotes for 6 years; comin up on 5 with Flyers

bryzgalov was 6 years with ducks


long list, but most were around 5 or 6 years.


i know what you're saying. and i'm not really for the Flyers waiting til stamkos is a UFA if he ever becomes one. all i'm saying is they have a nice young core that can grow together as a unit. they'll lose contracts like timonen, hartnell, briere, and pronger over the next 4 years so they'll have money to keep all these guys around.

i know these guys (schenn and couturier) are all based on potential, but it's not potential like you have absolutely no idea what these guys are going to do. schenn is considered by EVERY GM in the league to be the best player outside of the NHL right now. every GM in the league was trying to pry this kid away from LA. if it's unanimous, the kid can play, and he can play really well.

couturier was ranked as the #1 prospect in hockey coming into this past season. had he not come down with a serious case of mono, he probably would've gone #1 or #2. it's widely considered around the league that the Flyers got an absolute steal at #7 with couturier. this kid led the QMJHL in points when he was 17. he's also won a QMJHL championship.


these are blue-chip prospects we're talking about here. it's going to be a lot harder for them to miss than it is for them to hit.


stamkos is more of a sure thing; i get that. but with the money it's going to cost to sign him, it's going to be sooner rather than later that the Flyers will have to start shedding players like giroux, jvr, simmonds, couturier, and voracek.

depth is the key to a champion; stamkos takes away from that depth.

Not bustin balls, but more of an errors and omissions a la PTI style. We drafted Couturier in the 8th, Mark Scheifele went 7th to the Jets. Just noticed you mentioned it twice now

[Arsenal17]

If you actually believe the bolded statement then your knowledge of hockey is on par with my knowledge of nuclear physics...and if I need to spell it out...I know zero about nuclear physics.

JVR has the potential to be a top notch goal scoring forward, I'm not sure if he'll be as good as Stamkos because they would say a lot but he will be up there. I think a conservative guess of his potential would be a 35 goal/70+ point player but it could easily be more....

He showed that he has a power/speed combo that can make him one of the best players in the ice as he did several times in the playoffs.

You don't trade JVR straight up for Stamkos because Stamkos will need to make $7-8M but JVR wont and he can come close to his numbers.

I definatly wouldnt trade Giroux straight up for Stamkos....JVR would be a tough decision but after sleeping on it I would have to tell the Lightning no thanks.....Im catching *** for saying JVR will be a 40 goal player for a while but I do think he will be a consistent top scorer in the league for a while. There arent many players in the league with his combo of size, strength, speed, and skill......there is a reason he was the #2 pick in the draft and it was assumed he would take a while to develop. He is still developing and I never said he would score 40 NEXT year. As you stated in your post though the main reason you couldnt make that trade is $$$$$$. Wouldnt make sense to me to add all that $ when you have a player making MUCH less than that for a few more years that should become a dominating player in the near future.

[JDink24]

I definatly wouldnt trade Giroux straight up for Stamkos....JVR would be a tough decision but after sleeping on it I would have to tell the Lightning no thanks.....Im catching *** for saying JVR will be a 40 goal player for a while but I do think he will be a consistent top scorer in the league for a while. There arent many players in the league with his combo of size, strength, speed, and skill......there is a reason he was the #2 pick in the draft and it was assumed he would take a while to develop. He is still developing and I never said he would score 40 NEXT year. As you stated in your post though the main reason you couldnt make that trade is $$$$$$. Wouldnt make sense to me to add all that $ when you have a player making MUCH less than that for a few more years that should become a dominating player in the near future.

Giroux is by far my favorite Flyer...perhaps ever. But it would be absolutely foolish not to trade him in a straight up deal for Stamkos. Assuming we could sign him long term. Claude is 23 and has a very bright future but Stammer is 21 and all ready a top 3 player in the league. The fact we have even a remote opportunity to land him is crazy to me.

[Arsenal17]

I love the high expectations of both giroux and JVR, Arsenal, but they are a little lofty...Id be happy if JVR hit 30 goals this year...Bobby ryan is a year older and took that step in his third season...JVR can be expected to do the same but 40 is a bit much. Giroux has a lot of talent, but he certainly wont be the best in the league...top 15? i can see that without a doubt...there are a lot of really good players ahead of him, but I would expect him to be our best player going forward unless we get stamkos.

I dont expect JVR to score 40 NEXT year but it is possible if he stays healthy.....40 in the next few years is something I believe will be close to his norm......

As for Giroux I can see him leading the league in assists and scoring 30 goals.....if he does that then he would be the best player in the league or right there at the top.....maybe I am a bit optimistic but I am really high on both those players.....MUCH MUCH higher than I ever was on Richards or Carter.

[Giroux 4 MVP]

jvr can easily score 40 if he plays the entire season like he did in the playoffs especiallialy if he plays with jagr and giroux

[PhillyForevr215]

I dont expect JVR to score 40 NEXT year but it is possible if he stays healthy.....40 in the next few years is something I believe will be close to his norm......

As for Giroux I can see him leading the league in assists and scoring 30 goals.....if he does that then he would be the best player in the league or right there at the top.....maybe I am a bit optimistic but I am really high on both those players.....MUCH MUCH higher than I ever was on Richards or Carter.

A little on the optimistic side. But, As you should be