Official Cavs trade rumors/discussions thread (all others will be closed)

[ottograham14]

Ok I first want to clarify, I'm not mad with what the Cavs have done so far. I have been high on TT and I think Waiters will continue to develop. But all I keep hearing is how we are only going to build through the draft. Which the draft is important, but I want the Cavs to at least try for the big names in FA this summer. The worst thing is they say no, then we continue with the draft.

Please read previous pages as I thought we went over these big names in 2013. Who are these big names you expect the Cavs to go after in FA this offseason? If you think Dwight Howard or Chris Paul the only two big name FA's are coming here then Im sorry you must be delusional. If you want to overspend for guys like Josh Smith, Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap just to lose out on the potential of being able to sign if you look at 2014 the real possibility of giving a star a max contract offseason (and no this doesn't mean just LBJ, as if you look at the 2014 UFA's there are a lot of big names) then that is just a bad move.

I expect them to look at some veteran depth FA's this offseason like they did with Miles in 2012 but I don't and hope they aren't signing FA's this offseason to max contracts or giving out 2-3 year deals that will hinder the cap space come 2014 when it seems like they will be ready to make their big move all at the same time being able to extend KI to a max contact and TT to a lofty contract.

[11tg635]

I dont like to lose either but i think you have to give our young kids time to develop. Look at the improvement each one of our young players have made T.T. looks like he might develop into a 16 12 guy if he keeps improving. Waiters is still a rookie and has proven he can score in bunches, he just has to get used to the grind of the nba. Zeller i think well be an excellent off the bench big. Now i would love to draft Mcclemore he is a beast. Then draft big later in the draft. I think next year we are going see some dramatic improvement.

[gilbertsfolly]

Otto - it was nice of you to respond to this one.


I read the post, shook my head and moved along.

I was thinking in terms of building a strong rotation not replacing the guys we have, any combination of the guys I mentioned would be better than minutes going to the likes of Casspi, Walton, Jones, Livingston. You guys just keep drinking the kool-aid, sounding like parrots

[ottograham14]

I was thinking in terms of building a strong rotation not replacing the guys we have, any combination of the guys I mentioned would be better than minutes going to the likes of Casspi, Walton, Jones, Livingston. You guys just keep drinking the kool-aid, sounding like parrots

No problem, ill keep drinking the kool-aid of being a fan of actually realizing what the FO is trying to do and the peramaters they deal with in the real world and you keep playing NBA2K thinking every FA is able to be had just because they are on the open market. Sounds good.

[Melo15]

Not sure why Livingston was thrown in there. I think he's played very well for us so far

[the_color_finn]

I was thinking in terms of building a strong rotation not replacing the guys we have, any combination of the guys I mentioned would be better than minutes going to the likes of Casspi, Walton, Jones, Livingston. You guys just keep drinking the kool-aid, sounding like parrots

What's funnier, us "drinking the cool-aid" by seeing improvement in the team, trusting and being patient with the front office OR you thinking you know something we don't about the Cavs and the NBA, you thinking you're a genious and know better than Grant, who gets paid BTW to deal with the roster and make moves, you thinking that NBA2K has bearings on the real world, you thinking you could do a better job than Grant with your knowledge...I say the latter ha

[gilbertsfolly]

What's funnier, us "drinking the cool-aid" by seeing improvement in the team, trusting and being patient with the front office OR you thinking you know something we don't about the Cavs and the NBA, you thinking you're a genious and know better than Grant, who gets paid BTW to deal with the roster and make moves, you thinking that NBA2K has bearings on the real world, you thinking you could do a better job than Grant with your knowledge...I say the latter ha

Never claimed to be anything but a Cavs fan since day 1,Really I was at the 1st game in Cleveland I've earned the right to offer up opinions Debate is what we are here for, what is nba2k ? I really have no idea. I don't think sucking for years is the only way to build a winning team. My team being the laughing stock of the league sucks, every time Cavs highlights are on a national show someone makes a joke. To intentionally suck for years to get high draft picks in drafts without franchise players is crazy. Not everyone that gets paid big money to do a job is great at it, I hope Grant proves me wrong, I really do

[ottograham14]

Never claimed to be anything but a Cavs fan since day 1,Really I was at the 1st game in Cleveland I've earned the right to offer up opinions Debate is what we are here for, what is nba2k ? I really have no idea. I don't think sucking for years is the only way to build a winning team. My team being the laughing stock of the league sucks, every time Cavs highlights are on a national show someone makes a joke. To intentionally suck for years to get high draft picks in drafts without franchise players is crazy. Not everyone that gets paid big money to do a job is great at it, I hope Grant proves me wrong, I really do

Its a video game. The reference was made to your bench/FA list you provided where you or I have no real clue who the team went after, if they were available and if they would even want to come here especially to ride the pine behind a bunch of kids 22 or younger which is where the focus needed to be this year in getting them the most PT available.

Listen nobody likes to continue to watch the team lose but you have to realize what the FO and team are trying to do especially if you say you are a loyal fan. I question sometimes Scotts lineups but I still don't get a feeling that this team is intentionally trying to lose especially when 3/4ths of their games are decided in the fourth. More I see it is that the team is developing their recent draft picks by giving them the most available PT they can and because of this they are just not that good yet because of inexperience, youth, etc. especially showing in the said earlier 4th quarter where closing out games in professional sports comes with experience. Now if they were only giving these youngsters 19-20 minutes ie the Pistons with Drummond then I would be really believing they are tanking but they are not doing that. They came into this season lying to nobody saying the focus was on the youth and their development. I don't know what you realistically were expecting coming into the season but to each his own I guess if you were expecting more.

[ClevelandFan11]

Please read previous pages as I thought we went over these big names in 2013. Who are these big names you expect the Cavs to go after in FA this offseason? If you think Dwight Howard or Chris Paul the only two big name FA's are coming here then Im sorry you must be delusional. If you want to overspend for guys like Josh Smith, Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap just to lose out on the potential of being able to sign if you look at 2014 the real possibility of giving a star a max contract offseason (and no this doesn't mean just LBJ, as if you look at the 2014 UFA's there are a lot of big names) then that is just a bad move.

I expect them to look at some veteran depth FA's this offseason like they did with Miles in 2012 but I don't and hope they aren't signing FA's this offseason to max contracts or giving out 2-3 year deals that will hinder the cap space come 2014 when it seems like they will be ready to make their big move all at the same time being able to extend KI to a max contact and TT to a lofty contract.

I don't see them coming here, but I at least went Grant to try to get Howard to at least look. If Grant doesn't even try then I have an issue with the team. I would be ok if Chris just called Howards agent and the agent just laughed. At least Grant tried.

[bigalow80]

For those of you who think the cavs are being ridiculous in why they have not signed any "major free agents" since LBJ left, here is an article explaining the new luxury tax and why Chris Grant is WAY ahead of every other nba team.

21. What is the "luxury tax?" Why does it exist? How is it determined? Who pays it?

The luxury tax is a mechanism that helps control team spending. While it is commonly referred to as a "luxury tax," the CBA simply calls it a "tax" or a "team payment." It is paid by high spending teams -- those with a team salary exceeding a predetermined tax level. These teams pay a penalty for each dollar their team salary (with a few exceptions, see below) exceeds the tax level. The tax level is determined prior to the season, and is computed as follows:

For 2011-12 the league and players association agreed to use a figure of $70.307 million for the tax level.
In 2012-13 the tax level was determined by taking 53.51% of projected BRI (see question number 13), subtracting projected benefits, and dividing by the number of teams in the league1. For 2012-13 the tax level was guaranteed to be no less than $70.307 million.
Starting in 2013-14 they apply the same formula as 2012-13, except there is no guaranteed minimum.
Starting in 2012-13, the tax level may be adjusted based on what happened during the previous season:

If the league didn't pay the players enough the previous season, i.e., if they had to cut the players a supplemental check to make their guarantee, then the shortfall, divided by the number of teams in the league1, is added to the tax level. For example, if the players are paid $15 million less in 2012-13 than they are guaranteed, then the 2013-14 tax level is adjusted upward by $500,000.
If there is an overage -- i.e., if the players were paid more (pre-escrow) than their guaranteed share in the previous season -- and the system is getting close to exceeding what the league can get back through the escrow system, then the tax level (and salary cap) may be reduced in order to put on the brakes (see question number 20 for more information).
The amount of tax a team pays depends on the season, the team salary as of the team's last regular season game, and whether the team is a "repeat offender":

For 2011-12 and 2012-13, teams pay $1 for every $1 their team salary exceeds the tax level. There is no repeater rate.
For 2013-14 teams pay an incremental rate based on their team salary. There is no repeater rate.
For 2014-15 teams pay an incremental rate based on their team salary. They pay the repeater rate if they also were taxpayers in all of the previous three seasons.
For 2015-16 and all subsequent seasons, teams pay an incremental rate based on their team salary. They pay the repeater rate if they were taxpayers in at least three of the four previous seasons.
Here are the tax rates beginning 2013-14:

Team salary above tax level Non-repeater Repeater
Lower Upper Tax rate Incremental maximum Tax rate Incremental maximum
$0 $4,999,999 $1.50 $7.5 million $2.50 $12.5 million
$5,000,000 $9,999,999 $1.75 $8.75 million $2.75 $13.75 million
$10,000,000 $14,999,999 $2.50 $12.5 million $3.50 $17.5 million
$15,000,000 $19,999,999 $3.25 $16.25 million $4.25 $21.25 million
$20,000,000 N/A $3.75, and increasing $.50 for
each additional $5 million. N/A $4.75, and increasing $.50 for
each additional $5 million. N/A
For example:

A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level in 2011-12 pays a tax of $12 million.
A team with a team salary $12 million over the tax level in 2013-14 pays a tax of $21.25 million (the incremental maximum of $7.5 million for $0 to $4,999,999, plus the incremental maximum of $8.75 million for $5 million to $9,999,999, plus $2 million times the incremental rate of $2.50 for $10 million to $14,999,999).
A team with a team salary $4 million over the tax level in 2015-16 pays a tax of $10 million ($4 million times the repeater rate of $2.50 for $0 to $4,999,999) if they also were taxpayers in three of the previous four seasons, or pays a tax of $6 million ($4 million times the non-repeater rate of $1.50 for $0 to $4,999,999) if they were not taxpayers in at least three of the previous four seasons.

23. Other than financial penalties, are there restrictions on taxpaying teams?

In addition to the tax payments described in question number 21, taxpaying teams have the following restrictions. Note that most of these restrictions aren't triggered unless the team would be over the "apron" -- the point $4 million above the tax level -- following a signing or trade.

Teams above the apron cannot use the Bi-Annual exception (see question number 25).
Teams above the apron have a smaller Mid-Level exception (see question number 25). Teams above the apron can offer contracts no longer than three years, while other teams can offer four. The starting salary is also lower (for example, in 2011-12 it is $3 million for teams above the apron, versus $5 million for other teams).
Taxpaying teams can acquire less salary in a simultaneous trade (see question number 82).
Starting in 2013-14, teams above the apron cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).
Teams above the apron do not have the same protections under the Gilbert Arenas provision (see question number 44). Under the Arenas provision other teams can offer restricted free agents salaries starting at the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception. If a team with the right of first refusal does not have Early Bird rights to the player and is over the apron, it will have only the smaller Taxpayer Mid-Level exception at its disposal, and cannot match an offer for the full Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception.

if you want more info: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

IMOP the cavs are playing this game perfectly. The big 3 in Miami are going to get blown up, one way or another because a franchise just can't live over the luxury tax for that long of a period anymore. It will kill all revenue streams. This summer or even at this year's trade deadline, watch as salary dumping from teams on the bubble begins to happen.

[ottograham14]

For those of you who think the cavs are being ridiculous in why they have not signed any "major free agents" since LBJ left, here is an article explaining the new luxury tax and why Chris Grant is WAY ahead of every other nba team.

if you want more info: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

IMOP the cavs are playing this game perfectly. The big 3 in Miami are going to get blown up, one way or another because a franchise just can't live over the luxury tax for that long of a period anymore. It will kill all revenue streams. This summer or even at this year's trade deadline, watch as salary dumping from teams on the bubble begins to happen.

Great find Big. This is an aspect that I think everyone seems to forget when they throw out what the Cavs need to do with all the cap space available that they have saved up. Look at a team like Memphis right now who is already worried about the new luxury tax plan and are taking calls and making calls about Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph just to get under the tax. The money Grant has freed up doesn't mean that he is just waiting for Lebron in 2014 but if a potential blockbuster trade comes along where he has to take on salary for multiple years he has that availability unlike most other teams in the NBA. In order of best trade assests the Cavs have would probably have to be their cap space #1 since AV went down and then the expirings of Walton and Boobie that could look attractive for a young piece come February as teams will continue as always to look to shed salary.

[Arch Stanton]

Varejao has a blood clot in his lungs and is out for the year.

[Arch Stanton]

ESPNCleveland #Cavs announce that Anderson Varejao developed a blood clot Thursday after surgery and will miss the remainder of the season.

[ottograham14]

ESPNCleveland #Cavs announce that Anderson Varejao developed a blood clot Thursday after surgery and will miss the remainder of the season.

Blood clots are very serious so hopefully everything goes well for him. Can't see anyone taking him on now even in the offseason until he proves next year hopefully that he is fully healthy. Looks like he will probably play out the rest of his contract here as I don't think he is that much of an attractive Trade Chip now, in the offseason or moving forward at any point especially if the Cavs would still be requesting what they have in the past for him.

[Melo15]

Cavs assign PF Kevin Jones to Canton Charge.

-Sam Amico

Sorry Carl