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  1. #1261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    I don't see LeBron coming back to the Cavs until he's old and useless (like every falling star). He will either go to Brooklyn, NYK, or LAL.
    I really think the only way he would leave Miami is to go back to Cleveland to try making amends. I just can't see him going through all that nonsense again that he did before. He never went to college and seemed to wanted to be courted by all those teams as much as possible when he clearly knew all along that he was going to Miami. Maybe being a little more older and winning a Ship finally has made him more mature. Thats just me though. I think him coming back to Cleveland as well would be predicated on how many titles he wins in Miami. If he wins another one either this year or next year I can easily see him coming back to Cleveland if they start to show a competitive nature in 2013 and 2014 where Lebron would want to join KI and the other youngsters and would be the vet on the team. I am not holding hope or anything for this to happen but just what I think right now and in no way should Cleveland being basing any future decision that they have on the possibility of Lebron returning why that rumor the exec came out with about Andy is just ludacris IMO. Continue to build this team, try getting KI to a max deal in the offseason of 2013 and whoever else they think will be building blocks to this team in the future.

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  2. #1262
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    I might actually consider the Minnesota trade. Pekovic, Shved, and 1st (non lotto) for AV. Not my first choice but I'd consider it.
    I think AV needs to keep up these numbers to all star break in order to get one of these desirable trades.

  3. #1263
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    Other trade ideas from Cavs the Blog: http://www.cavstheblog.com/?p=15416


    Trade Ideas: Non-Varejao Edition
    December 20th, 2012 by Kevin Hetrick

    Why wait for free agency for Millsap? Let's get him now.
    The cool idea is to acquire more draft picks. I am anything but cool.

    It is time to start considering a different type of trade; the desired return no longer consists of unknown quantities, but instead, proven commodities.

    Assuming the Lakers reach the playoffs this year and Sacramento evades the dregs of the NBA in the next five; Cleveland possesses 14 draft picks in the next four years. Unfortunately, only twelve guys wear the wine & gold every night. With Kyrie quickly climbing the NBA ladder, next year represents the time for a big move forward. And frequently, free agency serves as a bastion of disappointment. So what to do?

    Time to turn palatable contracts and draft picks into contributors. Below, I present three trades where Cleveland helps a middling team turn their prospects in a more favorable projection.

    Trade One

    What a mess the Dwight Howard trade became for Philadelphia. Their payroll rests at $65 million this year, and $47 million next season, for nine players, none named Andrew Bynum. If they are a fringe playoff team, two of their next three first round draft picks are dealt. With that bloated payroll and dearth of upcoming draftees, they built a five-hundred team.

    I can help. How about: Thaddeus Young for Luke Walton, Samardo Samuels, 2013 Lakers / Miami pick and lesser of 2015 Miami or Cleveland selection?

    Why it works for Cleveland: At 24, Young combines youth, production, and a reasonable contract (3 years after this, for $28 million). In this season and the last two, his PER hovers between 18 & 19, while RAPM considers him an above-average defender. His most glaring weakness, rebounding, pairs well with the Cleveland contingent of Varejao and Tristan. Add in Tyler Zeller, and a strong, reasonably-priced rotation mans the frontcourt for several years.

    Why it works for Philadelphia: Did you see the lead? Other than owning Bynum’s Bird Rights, the Sixers could not make a max-offer to a free agent this off-season. If they make the playoffs, their pick goes to Miami, which then triggers their 2015 pick towards Orlando. A lottery pick this off-season remains theirs and sets the dominoes back one year. Trading Young and abandoning this season turns them from a “first-round-exit with a future of perpetual mediocrity” into a team building around Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Arnett Moultrie, $20 million in cap space and four 2013 draft picks (probably around 10th, 20th, 35th and 42nd…not bad). Other than this season, future prospects appear brighter.

    Trade 2

    Paul Millsap sits near the top of many free agent lists. But what if Utah wants something in return? In Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter, Utah currently preps twenty and twenty-one year old top-three draft picks as their front-court of the future. It seems unlikely to re-sign Millsap to a deal extending into their next contracts. Rather than plow through another April playoff exit, Utah should trade Millsap.

    How about: Paul Millsap (signing an extension) for Walton, Gee, 2013 Lakers / Miami pick, Orlando 2014 2nd rounder, and worse of Miami / Cleveland 2015 selection.

    Why it works for Cleveland: Millsap is really good. Plus a four-year contract amounts to his age 28 – 31 seasons, still very near prime performance. Based on PER, he always resides as a top-35 NBA player. RAPM, which loves his defensive contributions, ranks him as one of the NBA’s best-twenty from 2010 – 2011 through this season. An efficient scorer with a solid mid-range jumper, and an excellent rebounder, the Millsap / Varejao duo provides an exceptionally productive and underrated front-court to pair with Kyrie and whatever Tristan, Zeller, and Waiters become. Also, Cleveland still keeps all their picks, plus a future Sacremento first-round and two extra second-round choices.

    Why it works for Utah: Assume that February approaches, and Utah stands embroiled in a four-team race for the opportunity to get thumped by the Thunder in the Playoffs. Their long-term plans strongly consider letting Millsap walk via free agency. Shouldn’t they look to get something in return? With this trade, they enter Summer 2013 with their young core of Favors, Kanter, Gordon Hayward and Alec Burks, combined with three first-round choices and $30 million in cap space. Gee brings veteran athleticism at a reasonable price.

    Trade 3

    Portland’s record currently resides at a mediocre 11 and 12. Their 2013 – 2014 payroll eclipses $44 million for nine players, with 2014 – 2015 touching $45 million for eight players. None of those players is J.J. Hickson, presently fifth on the team in minutes and pacing them in PER. At some point, they owe a top-12 protected pick to Charlotte. Their best five players turned 27, 26, 24, 24 and 22 this season and have played in 96% of their games, against the League’s fifth-easiest schedule. Where is this team going? A fringe playoff team, minus one draft pick, with limited ability to add salary, and a bulk of their core already entering their prime? Maybe they win 8 of their next 10, but if not (Hollinger Playoff Odds are 7%), perhaps a shake-up is in order.

    How about: Wesley Matthews for Alonzo Gee, Jon Leuer and 2013 Laker / Miami pick.

    Why it works for Cleveland: As a third guard to pair with Kyrie and Dion, Matthews makes sense. Possessing good size, and as a 39% career three-point bomber, he will spread the floor for his new driving back-court mates. An efficient scorer, who tries on defense, there are a reasonable 2 years and $14 million remaining on his contract.

    Why it works for Portland: Did you read everything above? If January passes with this team still winning half and losing half, it seems time to make a move. This move gives them the opportunity to make a max offer (similar to this off-season with Hibbert) and also restores their missing draft pick. Gee presents a serviceable replacement for Matthews; before being buried in Cleveland, Jon Leuer played well for Milwaukee; this move offers reasonable ‘now’ and ‘later’ situations for the Blazers.

    Summary: Those are the three trades. Time to add some talent, using the plethora of picks the team accumulated.
    I like all these trades and would do all of them. We need some productivity from proven talent. I also think it would help the rookies develop.
    Last edited by Arch Stanton; 12-20-2012 at 10:27 PM.

  4. #1264
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    ^^^ the Milsap trade would be at the top of my list.

  5. #1265
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    I know its still early and Nash hasn't returne, but wouldn't it be great to see the Lakers lose just enough to get in that 11-15 pick range... Plus it would make it more likely for the Kings to make the playoffs

  6. #1266
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClevelandFan11 View Post
    I know its still early and Nash hasn't returne, but wouldn't it be great to see the Lakers lose just enough to get in that 11-15 pick range... Plus it would make it more likely for the Kings to make the playoffs
    If the Lakers don't make the playoffs they keep their pick and the Cavs get Miami's. So the best scenario is that the Lakers make the playoffs as the 8th seed and the Cavs get a pick in the 15-17 range. Also I don't know what NBA you are watching but the Kings are not making the playoffs even if the Lakers don't. Put the bath salts down.

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  7. #1267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    I might actually consider the Minnesota trade. Pekovic, Shved, and 1st (non lotto) for AV. Not my first choice but I'd consider it.
    I think AV needs to keep up these numbers to all star break in order to get one of these desirable trades.
    Did you watch the Thunder/Wolves game last night? I liked alot of what I saw out of Pekovic and Shved. I am really upset that Cleveland didn't go more in on Shved during the offseason as he would look great IMO running 3 guard sets with KI and Waiters but I think the Wolves signing Kirilenko had a lot with why he went there. Kid is really smooth out there, had a really good Olympics too. Both looked really good but if they do that trade I cannot see Zeller and Pekovic being able to play at the same time which would limit the rotations.

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  8. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    ^^^ the Milsap trade would be at the top of my list.
    I think honestly the Millsap trade would be the only one I would want to do. The other two have the feel of making a trade just to make a trade. Would rather wait till the offseason next year to see what becomes available then bringing in Young or Mathews.

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  9. #1269
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    I think honestly the Millsap trade would be the only one I would want to do. The other two have the feel of making a trade just to make a trade. Would rather wait till the offseason next year to see what becomes available then bringing in Young or Mathews.
    I think they need more Vets on this team. When was the last time a team full of lotto picks won the championship? OKC is an outlier and they got incredibly lucky. They went from a 26 game (or so) win season to a 55 game (or so) win season. And they still didn't win anything.
    If the Cavs win 20 something games this year I don't see them making the same jump as OKC. They need some consistency from vets. I'm worried that they are developing a losing mentality. Eventually they need to show some promise. I'll give them the rest of this year but if they don't start to show some more drastic improvement next season I think it might be time to let Grant and maybe Scott go.
    I don't know what their plan is??? Are they waiting for LeBron to become a FA? Or, do they value lotto picks more than they should?
    A lot of teams build through the draft and fail. Look at Sacto, Minny, NYK, the Bobcats... they are more practical examples of the Cavs direction.
    At the same time I understand that you don't want to get too good too soon. And become a perennial "one and done" 8th seed playoff team like the Sixers. It's a balancing act and the Cavs need to find their own path.
    I know you didn't say anything about the Cavs following a specific model I just through in my two cents anyways.

  10. #1270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    I think they need more Vets on this team. When was the last time a team full of lotto picks won the championship? OKC is an outlier and they got incredibly lucky. They went from a 26 game (or so) win season to a 55 game (or so) win season. And they still didn't win anything.
    If the Cavs win 20 something games this year I don't see them making the same jump as OKC. They need some consistency from vets. I'm worried that they are developing a losing mentality. Eventually they need to show some promise. I'll give them the rest of this year but if they don't start to show some more drastic improvement next season I think it might be time to let Grant and maybe Scott go.
    I don't know what their plan is??? Are they waiting for LeBron to become a FA? Or, do they value lotto picks more than they should?
    A lot of teams build through the draft and fail. Look at Sacto, Minny, NYK, the Bobcats... they are more practical examples of the Cavs direction.
    At the same time I understand that you don't want to get too good too soon. And become a perennial "one and done" 8th seed playoff team like the Sixers. It's a balancing act and the Cavs need to find their own path.
    I know you didn't say anything about the Cavs following a specific model I just through in my two cents anyways.
    I think its really to the point that they knew they needed another lotto pick to go with this young team this year and they didn't want to overspend for Veterans in the offseason this year due to the fact they feel they need to let the youth get the main PT and try geling together and then next year can bring in the BPA immediate impact in the draft with what they are growing and then can go after veteran FA's at that time with all of the cap space they have saved from not overspending. You have to remember too that Clevelands only building block after Lebron left was AV and that is not really a building block. They didn't have a good draft pick in 2010 to turn to to replace any of the loss and instead had an awful year trying to start obtaining youth so I don't consider that year 1 of the rebuild but instead 2011 year 1.. They are in their second year of what I consider a 5 year plan. Year 1 get your star you can build around. Year 2 get your complimentary players, one developmental with high ceiling and one that you know what you are getting. Year 3 add anothery high draft pick BPA to add immediate impact to team and see if a trade is out there with any loose pieces to obtain veteran around young core while extending youth if available and possibly sneak into playoffs. Year 4 add veterans to shape your team and extend all the youth that you can and compete in the playoffs. Year 5 make deep run into the playoffs. So as bad as it sounds the Cavs under this plan they more than likely won't be legitimately looking at the playoffs till 2014-2015 or at least seriously and thats why I think I have patience with this because I am realistic about how bad it was after Lebron left, how hard it is to compete in todays NBA with larger market teams vying for superstars to come here in FA and because the Cavs have what say teams that build through the draft like Sac, Charlotte, etc that you mentioned even though NYK didn't really build through the draft and the T'Wolves have started to play competitive basketball once they got their young core in Rubio, Love starting in 2009 is that the Cavs have a Superstar in KI and those teams really don't. Now all these really depends on KI's health though too.
    Last edited by ottograham14; 12-21-2012 at 11:31 AM.

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  11. #1271
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    If the Lakers don't make the playoffs they keep their pick and the Cavs get Miami's. So the best scenario is that the Lakers make the playoffs as the 8th seed and the Cavs get a pick in the 15-17 range. Also I don't know what NBA you are watching but the Kings are not making the playoffs even if the Lakers don't. Put the bath salts down.
    Calm down Otto, and if I am right with the more games the Lakers lse in the West, it makes it easier for another team get into the playoffs? And the Kings are only 8 games behind the 8th seed. Maybe Cousin gets his head on straight, who knows anything is possible. Im just trying to be positive here

  12. #1272
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClevelandFan11 View Post
    Calm down Otto, and if I am right with the more games the Lakers lse in the West, it makes it easier for another team get into the playoffs? And the Kings are only 8 games behind the 8th seed. Maybe Cousin gets his head on straight, who knows anything is possible. Im just trying to be positive here
    Sorry, but did you just say 8 games from the 8th seed? You realize that the Cavs are like 8 games from the 8th seed. And they play in a weaker conference. Not trying to attack you because I know you want what's best for the Cavs. There is no way the Kings make the playoffs. I just hope that the Cavs don't become the new Kings. Kings going on 4 seasons as a 20-win team.

  13. #1273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Sorry, but did you just say 8 games from the 8th seed? You realize that the Cavs are like 8 games from the 8th seed. And they play in a weaker conference. Not trying to attack you because I know you want what's best for the Cavs. There is no way the Kings make the playoffs. I just hope that the Cavs don't become the new Kings. Kings going on 4 seasons as a 20-win team.
    I know it's not likely, but I do not think it's completely out of the question though

  14. #1274
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClevelandFan11 View Post
    I know it's not likely, but I do not think it's completely out of the question though
    It's not a realistic expectation and it is out of the question. I don't gamble but I would be willing to throw money down that the Kings won't make the playoffs. I'd say the same for better teams like the Blazers who also won't make the playoffs.

  15. #1275
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    Since the OKC model seems to get mentioned (maybe not here but elsewhere)...
    In OKCs 2nd season they started off 3-25 (on Dec 21). They then went 10-18, and 10-16. The next season they won 50 games.

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