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  1. #1681
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    If they can keep Speights for reasonable money (under $8 million per), they should seriously think about it. This guy does nothing but produce when he is on the floor. Even with Andy back next year (hopefully), our bigs would be Andy, Zeller, Thompson, and Speights...could focus all of their attention to finding their SF/SG type and a solid back-up for Kyrie (I like Livingston, but can we depend on him?).

  2. #1682
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    Ya I like Speights But im scared about giving him too much money. 6mill is the most id give him. Lets remember he's a 7-4 career guy. Yes he's playing really well for us right now, But remember what Pargo did earlier. Lets wait and see if he keeps this up.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  3. #1683
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    Erik Spoelstra clinched All-Star coaching spot today, making Chris Bosh a virtual lock to replace Rondo as a starter. LeBron to PG.
    There are several reasons Spoelstra probably won't start Kyrie Irving. At end of day Heat have best record & have earned the spoils.
    -Brian Windhorst

    ****ing ********.
    Last edited by Melo15; 02-03-2013 at 05:34 PM.

  4. #1684
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    So stupid, you should PLAY your postition. If your not good enough to beat out the guy at ur spot then you should not be aloud to take others.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  5. #1685
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    yet another reason that I won't be watching the All-Star game...if Kyrie isn't one of the 5 best players in the Eastern Conference, then I would like to see where he ranks.

    6th in the NBA in scoring (3rd in the Eastern Conference...you won't find Bosh until #29), 13th in NBA in Player Efficiency Rating (6th in Eastern Conference...2nd among guards in the East...you won't find Bosh until #27)...but, yeah, Bosh should start over Irving.

  6. #1686
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    Ya I like Speights But im scared about giving him too much money. 6mill is the most id give him. Lets remember he's a 7-4 career guy. Yes he's playing really well for us right now, But remember what Pargo did earlier. Lets wait and see if he keeps this up.
    He was a 7-4 guy because he wasn't playing any minutes in Memphis. With extended minutes he obviously produces more. He is an above average player that gives you above average production.

  7. #1687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    He was a 7-4 guy because he wasn't playing any minutes in Memphis. With extended minutes he obviously produces more. He is an above average player that gives you above average production.
    Thats fine and all, 6mill lol, thats his cap. I still need to see more.
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  8. #1688
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    BTW- Speights got 22min in 2011-2012 season and was only 8-6 guy. He gets 25 now with cavs.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  9. #1689
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    Doing a little research on Marreese Speights...Here are his ranks per 48 minutes.

    33rd in the NBA in FGs (9.3)
    12th in offensive rebounds (5.4)
    21st in defensive rebounds (9.8)
    14th in overall rebounts (15.1)
    32nd in blocks (2.11)
    48th in points (23)
    41st in efficiency (27.23)

    In Memphis, he was averaging 14.5 minutes per game and 6.5 pts and 4.7 rebounds while shooting 42.9% from the field and 71.6% from the FT line. Since coming to Cleveland, he is averaging 25.6 minutes per game, 15.4 pts and 6.8 rebounds while shooting 53.4% from the field and 87.5% from the FT line. In 11 additional minutes, he has more than doubled his point production and increased his rebounds by over 2 while increasing both his FG% and FT%. He is getting more consistent minutes and his production is showing that with consistent minutes comes consistent production.

    Someone will pay this man at least $7.5 million in the offseason...I wouldn't be upset to see that team be the Cavaliers. As it stands now, the Cavs have $28,079,120 locked up for next year with Andy, Kyrie, Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee. There are options for Speights (most likely he will decline) and Miles (team option for $2.25 million...would see us picking this up unless we go big in FA) and qualifying options for Ellington (over $3 million...don't see us offering that one) and Casspi (over $3 million...seyonara!).

    The '12-13 cap was $58.044 million, assuming that raises to say $60 next year, this would leave us over $30 million under the cap. Figure in the rookies coming in to be around $6-7 million (if we keep all picks), that leaves us at least $20 million below the cap.

    PG - Kyrie Irving, Shaun Livingston (free agent...wouldn't be opposed to re-signing...only making $800,000 this year), and/or FA/Draft backup
    SG - Dion Waiters, CJ Miles, and maybe a FA/Draft contributor
    SF - Alonzo Gee, Draft/FA NEED a STARTER here...Gee would be a solid 7th or 8th man coming off the bench, but he is NOT an NBA starter
    PF - Tristan Thompson, Marreese Speights
    C - Anderson Varejao, Tyler Zeller, Greg Oden (if cheap and willing to sign incentive laden deal)

    That would be 11-12 players...still room for the 2nd rounders to fill depth spots (DeShaun Thomas would be a nice project type player to have in Round 2 if there).

  10. #1690
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    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    Doing a little research on Marreese Speights...Here are his ranks per 48 minutes.

    33rd in the NBA in FGs (9.3)
    12th in offensive rebounds (5.4)
    21st in defensive rebounds (9.8)
    14th in overall rebounts (15.1)
    32nd in blocks (2.11)
    48th in points (23)
    41st in efficiency (27.23)

    In Memphis, he was averaging 14.5 minutes per game and 6.5 pts and 4.7 rebounds while shooting 42.9% from the field and 71.6% from the FT line. Since coming to Cleveland, he is averaging 25.6 minutes per game, 15.4 pts and 6.8 rebounds while shooting 53.4% from the field and 87.5% from the FT line. In 11 additional minutes, he has more than doubled his point production and increased his rebounds by over 2 while increasing both his FG% and FT%. He is getting more consistent minutes and his production is showing that with consistent minutes comes consistent production.

    Someone will pay this man at least $7.5 million in the offseason...I wouldn't be upset to see that team be the Cavaliers. As it stands now, the Cavs have $28,079,120 locked up for next year with Andy, Kyrie, Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee. There are options for Speights (most likely he will decline) and Miles (team option for $2.25 million...would see us picking this up unless we go big in FA) and qualifying options for Ellington (over $3 million...don't see us offering that one) and Casspi (over $3 million...seyonara!).

    The '12-13 cap was $58.044 million, assuming that raises to say $60 next year, this would leave us over $30 million under the cap. Figure in the rookies coming in to be around $6-7 million (if we keep all picks), that leaves us at least $20 million below the cap.

    PG - Kyrie Irving, Shaun Livingston (free agent...wouldn't be opposed to re-signing...only making $800,000 this year), and/or FA/Draft backup
    SG - Dion Waiters, CJ Miles, and maybe a FA/Draft contributor
    SF - Alonzo Gee, Draft/FA NEED a STARTER here...Gee would be a solid 7th or 8th man coming off the bench, but he is NOT an NBA starter
    PF - Tristan Thompson, Marreese Speights
    C - Anderson Varejao, Tyler Zeller, Greg Oden (if cheap and willing to sign incentive laden deal)

    That would be 11-12 players...still room for the 2nd rounders to fill depth spots (DeShaun Thomas would be a nice project type player to have in Round 2 if there).
    Thanks for the research... I completely agree. If he is willing to resign with the Cavs I think 8 mill is reasonable. There's a lot of wings in this upcoming draft. Wherever the Cavs pick they should be able to get a quality 3. Gee has been awful lately, and his defense is a bit overrated. I like him but not as a starter.

  11. #1691
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    Quote Originally Posted by browniebuck View Post
    Doing a little research on Marreese Speights...Here are his ranks per 48 minutes.

    33rd in the NBA in FGs (9.3)
    12th in offensive rebounds (5.4)
    21st in defensive rebounds (9.8)
    14th in overall rebounts (15.1)
    32nd in blocks (2.11)
    48th in points (23)
    41st in efficiency (27.23)

    In Memphis, he was averaging 14.5 minutes per game and 6.5 pts and 4.7 rebounds while shooting 42.9% from the field and 71.6% from the FT line. Since coming to Cleveland, he is averaging 25.6 minutes per game, 15.4 pts and 6.8 rebounds while shooting 53.4% from the field and 87.5% from the FT line. In 11 additional minutes, he has more than doubled his point production and increased his rebounds by over 2 while increasing both his FG% and FT%. He is getting more consistent minutes and his production is showing that with consistent minutes comes consistent production.

    Someone will pay this man at least $7.5 million in the offseason...I wouldn't be upset to see that team be the Cavaliers. As it stands now, the Cavs have $28,079,120 locked up for next year with Andy, Kyrie, Thompson, Zeller, Waiters, and Gee. There are options for Speights (most likely he will decline) and Miles (team option for $2.25 million...would see us picking this up unless we go big in FA) and qualifying options for Ellington (over $3 million...don't see us offering that one) and Casspi (over $3 million...seyonara!).

    The '12-13 cap was $58.044 million, assuming that raises to say $60 next year, this would leave us over $30 million under the cap. Figure in the rookies coming in to be around $6-7 million (if we keep all picks), that leaves us at least $20 million below the cap.

    PG - Kyrie Irving, Shaun Livingston (free agent...wouldn't be opposed to re-signing...only making $800,000 this year), and/or FA/Draft backup
    SG - Dion Waiters, CJ Miles, and maybe a FA/Draft contributor
    SF - Alonzo Gee, Draft/FA NEED a STARTER here...Gee would be a solid 7th or 8th man coming off the bench, but he is NOT an NBA starter
    PF - Tristan Thompson, Marreese Speights
    C - Anderson Varejao, Tyler Zeller, Greg Oden (if cheap and willing to sign incentive laden deal)

    That would be 11-12 players...still room for the 2nd rounders to fill depth spots (DeShaun Thomas would be a nice project type player to have in Round 2 if there).
    Nice comment BB but you are looking at the 2013 offseason. Need to be as hard as it is looking at the 2014 offseason and that is where the discussion between keeping Speights becomes harder. Here is what I posted last week when I looked at the 2014 offseason.

    After doing some looking up, The Cavs presently have no hard salary obligations for 2014-15. Of course, they have team options on a whole bunch of players they are going to want to keep. They are also likely going to have salaries for at least three #1 picks (two in 2013, one in 2014). And they have team options on Varejao and Gee.

    Here's where they stand, if they pick up every current option:

    Varejao - $9.8M
    Kyrie - $7.46M
    Thompson - $5.42M
    Waiters - $4.06M
    Gee - $3.25M
    Zeller - $1.70M

    Figure in estimates for their #1 picks in 2013/2014:
    2013 own #1 (high lottery) - $4.0M
    2013 Lakers/Heat #1 (late teens) - $2.0M
    2014 own #1 (late teens) - $2.0M

    That brings The Cavs to just under $40 million in obligations for 2014-15. I am not figuring in other obligations that could be a factor (ie., if they see enough of Ellington to keep him around; if they sign Livingston to a deal so that he continues as the backup PG, or if they are extending KI and TT at that time).

    The cap in 2014-15 will likely be around $60 million, it's just over $58 million this season. It will take about $20 million to get a max free agent. Will Gilbert be willing to pay the ludacris luxury tax at that point to add another superstar with extending KI to a max contract? I would say yes if they are competing. With those obligations too, they cannot take on any more contracts and still keep enough space to sign LBJ ... er, a max free agent. If they would sign Speights to, say, a $8-10M/season deal, then they'd have to clear salaries elsewhere (declining Varejao's option seems like the clear path since they will probably have added another big through the draft by that time and probably a high pick), or they'd have to give up the idea of bringing in a max salary player, and go into the 2014-15 season with a core of Kyrie/Thompson/Waiters/Zeller/three more #1 picks/Varejao/Speights. Not the worst thing in the world, but they'd still be searching for that second star to pair with Kyrie (unless one of those 2013/2014 draftees turns out to be that guy or Waiters develops greatly in the next two seasons).

    In the end for everyone saying to keep Speights, it will really come down to if they are willing to keep him long term or Andy in my mind especially if he plays 20-24 mpg and averages around 13 and 6 where he would probably get at the low around 6 million a year and on the high 10 million a year after looking at most bigs that average his numbers have gotten over the years.
    So in your scenario the bigs for this team the next couple years since you would have to sign Speights to probably 3-4 year deal would be starters Andy (declining in age and don't know when he will go down), TT (having a good season and progressing nicely but still liability on defense end), Speights (is a nice big off bench but still liability on defense), and Zeller (right now alot of ?'s still, has shown he can play on offensive end but is completely lost on the defensive end so far). Plus if you have to give Speights around 7-9 mill a year that is racking up 17-20 mill in Andy and Speights alone with an extension coming for TT around 2014 or 2015 offseason which would probably be around 10 mill a year if he keeps progressing. Like my statement above says its would make a lot more sense to keep one of Andy or Speights and then draft an cheaper, better defender inside either in this upcoming draft of in the 2014 draft than to sign Speights to an extension that could hurt them in the long run. He has played well the past 5 games and I hope he keeps it up to continue to add to his trade value but I see in no way they keep Andy and Speights so if Speights is re-signed you are going to have to cut Andy or move him in the offseason IMO.

    I don't see a way that Grant lets Speights completely blow up what he was trying to do here all along with this rebuild just to win 3-5 more games this season and then cost them cap space the next two offseasons. I like how the guy has played so far but I really don't see him in the teams future plans and before 2 weeks ago nobody else did. In my eyes like said above it comes down to either keeping Andy or Speights, keeping both and hoping that KI can find a legitimate second option if not a first option to KI's second in the draft or Waiters develops that well, or becoming the Atlanta Hawks and having a really good 1st option but average to good players around him for the next 4-6 years and getting as far as the second round.
    Last edited by ottograham14; 02-04-2013 at 08:24 AM.


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  12. #1692
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    Marreese Speights is averaging 15.4 points and 6.8 rebounds in five games with the Cavaliers, drawing praise from coach Byron Scott.
    "I didn’t know he was that fiery," Scott said. "From what I saw in Philly, he was a guy who was primarily a catch-and-shoot guy, a perimeter big guy, who could stretch the floor. The first game we had him here, I saw he was much more than that." Since Speights joined the rotation Tyler Zeller's averages have plummeted to 7.0 points, 6.1 rebounds and 0.2 blocks. It's conceivable that Zeller will lose his starting job, but either way his fantasy value has been decimated.
    The Cavs' bench scored 44 points on Saturday, led by Marreese Speights who had 21 points, 10 rebounds, three assists and one block.
    The newly-acquired big man sank 10-of-15 FGs and he's quickly taken to a bigger role in Cleveland, where competent bench play has been rare all season. Tyler Zeller wound up with just seven points and eight rebounds in 24 minutes and his run as a fantasy asset could be coming to an end, but Tristan Thompson's role appears safe (11 points, 12 rebounds in 38 minutes).
    http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/nba/c...land-cavaliers

    The bench is doing this all without Luke Walton, crazy. Hopefully if they keep Speights he can keep this up as Scott seemed to have his concerns about him but he has played past those so far. Hopefully this isn't a guy in a contract option year finally playing up to his potential just to get his extension and then go back to the same guy in Philly. Biggest ? is if he can sustain this current success and nobody really knows that yet.


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  13. #1693
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/nba/c...land-cavaliers

    The bench is doing this all without Luke Walton, crazy. Hopefully if they keep Speights he can keep this up as Scott seemed to have his concerns about him but he has played past those so far. Hopefully this isn't a guy in a contract option year finally playing up to his potential just to get his extension and then go back to the same guy in Philly. Biggest ? is if he can sustain this current success and nobody really knows that yet.
    Good points, and i think thats the huge question. He's had alot of wide open shots and lines. Teams are going to start game planning for him, lets see what adjustments he can make.
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  14. #1694
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    You really need to be looking at 2014-2015. Because Irving will get his max contract, plus if Lebron comes back he'll get a max, Plus im sure lebron will bring someone else which will be around the 10mill-max range. Plus waiters, Zeller, rest of our draft picks etc...

    not sure if i want speights 8+million dollar contract on that.
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  15. #1695
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    Pretty interesting article regarding KI's second year compared to that of LBJ's second year and the team as a whole:

    When talking about the Cavaliers’ journey back to contention, the OKC model is the one often cited and recited (and for good reason, mind you). But, one thing I wanted to take a look at was how bad the Cavs were when they drafted LeBron James in 2003 versus Kyrie Irving in 2011. In the second season of James’s time here, the team missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker, and Kyrie’s squad looks highly unlikely to measure up anywhere close to that. However, what I do hope happens is that Kyrie’s Cavaliers in year three makes some progress on the level with LeBron’s Cavs in year two.
    In LeBron’s rookie season, the team finished 35-47 as a 28-year-old Ilgauskas, a second-year Carlos Boozer, and holdovers Ricky Davis and Darius Miles were traded in two separate trades for Jeff McInnis, Eric Williams, and others. It made the team a middling one. When you look at LeBron’s year two squad, they finished 42-40, in a tie with the New Jersey Nets for the last spot, on the short end due to a 1-3 season series against the Nets. That race was so close, however, that the Cavs were only three games out of the fifth spot and five games from hosting a playoff series. That team had not just James in his first All-Star year and second season, it had Zydrunas Ilgauskas in his second of two All-Star seasons. Other key contributors were Drew Gooden, Jeff McInnis, and fifth starter Ira Newble alongside a bench of Eric Snow, Anderson Varejao, Sasha Pavlovic, Lucious Harris, and Robert “Tractor” Traylor.

    The first thing that sticks out with this team is how REMARKABLY healthy they were. Just a quick glance at the games played proves this: Gooden (82), Snow (81), James (80), Ilgauskas (78), McInnis (76), Newble (74), Traylor (74), and Harris (73). The only key contributor that missed significant time was in fact Anderson Varejao, who played just 54 games. Compare to this year’s Cavaliers, who have the games missed count through just over half the season (47 games) as follows: Varejao (23 games, will be 57 by season’s end), Daniel Gibson (16), Irving (11), Luke Walton (missed last 4, hard to discern the DNP-CDs and missed games due to injury), Miles (10), Waiters (8), and Zeller (4). That doesn’t even include having three of the team’s young core in Irving, Zeller, and Thompson masked up for nearly half of their season thus far.

    That ’04-’05 Cavalier team was an elite rebounding team and much better defensively than Kyrie’s current squad. It was a team ranked 12th in both offensive (106.6) and defensive rating (105.7). That ’04-’05 squad led the NBA with a 32.5% offensive rebounding rate and had the eighth best turnover rate at 13.0% on the offensive end. Defensively, they were just 17th in eFG% defense (48.5%), but that’s far better than the current Cavs’ rank at… that’s right, dead last at 52.2%. And these were the pre-Mike Brown days, folks.

    You’ll also recall that ’04-’05 team saw the firing of Paul Silas with 18 games remaining in the season as interim coach Brendan Malone brought the team into the finish with just a 8-10 record. The Cavs actually would have made the playoffs despite that if not for the wildly hot finishes by the Nets (15-4) and the 7th-seeded 76ers (8-2).

    Let’s go to the PERs for at a look for the claim for a better supporting cast for LeBron:

    Drew Gooden – 19.7
    Zydrunas Ilgauskas – 19.5
    Anderson Varejao – 17.0
    Jeff McInnis – 12.4
    Robert Traylor – 12.0

    And this year’s Cavs.. (Excluding Varejao and his 21.9 PER due to season-ending injury)

    Marreese Speights – 17.5 1
    Tristan Thompson – 15.7
    Shaun Livingston – 13.1 2
    C.J. Miles – 12.7
    Dion Waiters 12.2

    As you can see, Z and Gooden were well outperforming anyone else on the current Cavaliers supporting cast. Ilgauksas averaged 16.9 points, 8.6 rebounds, and 2.1 blocks that year while shooting 47%. For The Drizzle, it was 14.4 points, 9.2 boards, and a 49% shooting clip. McInnis added a fourth scoring threat with 12.8 points and 5.1 assists while shooting 34.5% from three point range to give the team a second three point threat in addition to LeBron.

    As strong as Tristan Thompson’s come along and as much of a lightning rod that Speights has been, since Andy went down, the battle to get a consistent threat to go along with Kyrie has been a battle. Dion’s PER is pretty low as he struggles to get fouls called for him, which is such a big part of what he wants to do. I fully expect that to improve in subsequent years as refs stop giving him this stupid rookie hazing. Point being, could the Cavs have added some more help the likes of which McInnis, Traylor, and Snow provided James in those formative years to add some wins. Sure, but that would be counterproductive toward getting another solid draft pick to add to this young core.

    It was clear in the third year of LeBron’s era, with a new head coach in Mike Brown, that team figured out how it wanted to play. They made the free agent acquisitions of Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall, and Damon Jones along with mid-season addition Ronald “Flip” Murray. Their strategy was simple: defend above all, lean heavily on LeBron offensively, surround him with three point shooters and bigs who can finish and run pick and rolls, and rebound well (especially offensively). That team won 50 games, advanced into the second round of the playoffs, and nearly took out the Detroit Pistons if not for a missed defensive rebound by Flip Murray.

    Looking at the usage rates, PERs, and true shooting percentages of LeBron and Kyrie year two yields some intriguing results.

    Kyrie Irving (2012-2013) – 30.3 USG%, 22.7 PER, 57.3 TS%, 24.0 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.4 APG, 3.5 TO
    LeBron James (2004-2005) – 29.7 USG%, 25.7 PER, 55.4 TS%, 27.2 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 7.2 APG, 3.3 TO

    Two players being asked to do a lot of the same things on the offensive end. Create for others who have a hard time doing it for themselves and score at a high and efficient level.

    This isn’t a credo or anything, more of just a trip down memory lane and a reminder of the starkly different philosophies taking place here between the Gilbert/Ferry/Brown group when compared to the Gilbert/Grant/Scott trio.

    What will the Kyrie era strategy be? It’s highly unlikely that this team will ever be the defensive dynamo that those Mike Brown teams were. But, they may be capable of forcing more turnovers than those teams, as Brown’s teams were much more get stops and grab the rebound instead of forcing turnovers. Currently, the Cavs rank fourth in defensive turnover rate at 14.8%. They also hit the offensive boards incredibly hard, ranking eighth in OR% and third in total offensive rebounds on the season. The current Cavaliers are starting to find certain things that they do well with players that will be here when they make their playoff push. They need to build on that as they continue to acquire talent and start to see it correlate to wins on the scoreboard.

    So, in conclusion, I think the progress is clear, but it may be next year (Kyrie’s third year) where we look to see the team hover around .500 and start thinking about playoff contention, one year behind those LeBron teams of years past. They’re two completely different strategies of building around a star on display 3 , but let’s hope we see similar results (with perhaps a little happier ending).
    http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/20...r-eras-so-far/


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