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  1. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    But really if Kyrie is this premier PG then why not?
    He's not irving is prob the worse player in the leauge. I mean Drummond has a better PER
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  2. #1637
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    Otto, since you used to play against David Lee... Why don't you work your magic and convince him to play for the Cavs?

  3. #1638
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    He's not irving is prob the worse player in the leauge. I mean Drummond has a better PER
    Yeah Irving stinks! Watching Drummond play PG is equivalent to pissing gold!

  4. #1639
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    Arch once again i wanna ask you how you expect the Cavs to get better. Because this current team won't win a championship. So we need to improve.

    You have stated that FA's won't come here. But then you wanna keep winning and lose our odds at a top pick and in a ''weak'' draft class the best players will be gone prob in the top 3-4. So you don't wanna improve threw draft or FA's. got a master plan for a trade or something?
    I also wanted to note that it's not so much that the draft class is weak... It's that it's unpredictable. So drafting first isn't necessarily beneficial.

  5. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Otto, since you used to play against David Lee... Why don't you work your magic and convince him to play for the Cavs?
    I could only get one St. Louis player around that time to play for the Cavs so that went to Darius Miles. I think I made the right choice.

    Sorry to see you go Wiggy. Should have went to FSU.

  6. #1641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    I think we'd all like for this team to start winning but it's not like we can flip a switch and make it happen like that article suggests. This current team is not built to win. We have young, developing talent and not much veteran talent to go along with it. This was going to be a bumpy season from the start, most of us knew that coming in. Add in us losing Varejao for most of the year, Kyrie missing time, Waiters missing time, and I think our record is about what we'd expect. This kind of seems like a fan-boy article. The author wants to win, I respect that, but he's foolish if he thinks this team is going to go .500 the rest of the way.
    Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner folks. Move to the front of the line for your chicken.

    This is what I have been trying to say for weeks now. This team is not tanking and its not good enough to be in the playoffs so you have the middle ground which shouldn't hurt this team moving forward because of all the assests they have obtained i.e. cap space, draft picks, expiring contracts. Would a top 3 lottery pick help this team for the future, sure. Would going .500 help build this teams confidence for the future, sure. The only thing is that they are not tanking for that top 3 lottery pick they are just that inexperienced and young of a team where they could possibly get that depending on the rest of the season. They are not that good to be a .500 (2nd Half) team but they could do that if they develop and cohese for the next three months to at least get to 28-31 wins total, which would still put them in the 5-9 range in the lottery which isn't that bad. And if they wanted to move up to the top 3 they possibly could with the multiple draft pick they have as ammo. Btw trading Speights is not going to overly change any of this. If he is traded they could possibly lose 3-4 more games than they would if they still had him but in the grand scheme of things is that really something to throw your panties in a bunch over?

    Why don't we just let this season play out and go from there. Its always fun to speculate and I don't see that stopping on this board anytime soon but to say they either need to tank to get a top 3 pick or they need to win this amount of games to show that they are progressing is ridiculous in my mind. They are going to win some games the next three months and lose some games. They have recently showed the ability to close in the 4th quarter which they were not doing 2 months ago. Waiters is finally starting (still not the greatest) to take a better overall shot selection and getting to the rim better. Lets see if he can improve finishing, playing with KI and growing on the defensive floor. Lets see if TT continues to be a double double machine while hopefully working on his defensive rebounding, timing blocking shots and an 16-20 footer. Lets see if Zeller can finally get the deer caught in the headlights look off for every other game especially on the defensive side. These are the four individuals win or lose that make the most difference so Id rather just be focused on them the rest of the way hopefully continuing to progress.
    Last edited by ottograham14; 02-01-2013 at 07:52 AM.

    Sorry to see you go Wiggy. Should have went to FSU.

  7. #1642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    I also wanted to note that it's not so much that the draft class is weak... It's that it's unpredictable. So drafting first isn't necessarily beneficial.

    Sure, But i don't see how NOT drafting in the top 3 is beneficial lol. I think thats a great way to sum it up for me.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  8. #1643
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    I think the pick acummulating by Grant has been the right way to go, you won't hit on every pick, but he hit on Kyrie obviously and TT is looking like a hit too, Waiters has been hot and cold but I like his future, Zeller needs to hit the weight room and give a call to Shurmur to learn about progress and how to make it...one of the problems we had during LeBrons days was drafting, we traded away our pick every other year and missed each time, remember the trade of our 2007 first rounder for Jiri freakin Welsch???? that pick turned into Rudy Fernandez, who would have looked awfully good on the wing for LBJ to dish too

  9. #1644
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    An outburst aimed at his own team earned All-Star point guard Russell Westbrook a third-quarter benching and gave the Grizzlies a glimmer of hope before Oklahoma City closed out a 106-89 victory Thursday night.

    Just when the Thunder seemed to be firmly in control, Westbrook started sniping with his teammates after a possession when he posted up along the left side of the lane and eventually got called for a turnover when Jerryd Bayless stuck with him on defense for 5 seconds.

    Westbrook then spiked the ball twice while gesturing toward Thabo Sefolosha and Durant that they needed to get open. He then hollered toward coach Scott Brooks on the bench.

    Memphis followed his outburst with 10 straight points to make it a game again -- with Westbrook getting an early hook during the stretch and heading down the tunnel toward the locker room.
    http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=400278402

    This was for you Arch. I don't see Irving ever being a Diva on the standards Westbrook has been throughout his career. I like the way he plays but would not take his future over Irving's anyday and I know you were trying to say right now but do you think Westbook would be able to do anything different than Kyrie is with this team currently? Also you talk about KI leaving in 2015, I don't see that happening at least not until 2017 if he does leave at all after his rookie extension but you would have to assume how Westbrook carries himself that he would have been definately gone onto a different team at that time.

    Sorry to see you go Wiggy. Should have went to FSU.

  10. #1645
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClevelandSpider View Post
    I think the pick acummulating by Grant has been the right way to go, you won't hit on every pick, but he hit on Kyrie obviously and TT is looking like a hit too, Waiters has been hot and cold but I like his future, Zeller needs to hit the weight room and give a call to Shurmur to learn about progress and how to make it...one of the problems we had during LeBrons days was drafting, we traded away our pick every other year and missed each time, remember the trade of our 2007 first rounder for Jiri freakin Welsch???? that pick turned into Rudy Fernandez, who would have looked awfully good on the wing for LBJ to dish too
    Oh hindsight, what a great thing.

    Sorry to see you go Wiggy. Should have went to FSU.

  11. #1646
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    I could only get one St. Louis player around that time to play for the Cavs so that went to Darius Miles. I think I made the right choice.
    I miss the dream team


  12. #1647
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    Oh hindsight, what a great thing.
    Did anyone other than Ferry think that was a good trade at the time?

  13. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    Here's a really interesting read by Adrian Wojnarowski about how the era of the super-teams is ending and breaking down LeBron back to Cleveland and why it makes sense. Long article, but worth the read.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--ru...065716242.html
    I went back and read this again as I thought besides the whole Lebron coming back and shots at Memphis' FO it was very good on the future perspective of the NBA from a reporter who is very in on the situations Woj.

    Perhaps the most important dimension is the Moneyball one -- there will be an increasing premium on acquiring players who are underpaid. Generally speaking, that refers to young players on their rookie contracts. Those first four-five years of a player's career are gold. Yes, there is uncertainty (a rookie may prove to be a total bust); but overall, it provides the highest probability of acquiring cost-effective players moving forward in the next couple years NBA. What have teams like the Lakers, Heat, Knicks, and Nets done? They've traded away many of those picks in future years for current talent trying to make a present run and not worrying about the future. Now they will probably be able to still contend and have continued success because FA's will want to go there where they don't have to overspend and their owners will continue to pay ridiculous luxury taxes especially LA but it will still limit all of them from being able to sway 3 max contracts at any given time unless they fill out the rest of their roster with league minimum players.

    What have the Cavs done? They've acquired as many of those picks as possible. And they're acquiring picks that have the potential to not be realized for several years -- actually a good thing, because it is going to ensure a constant flow of good young players on rookie contracts even though I don't expect them to use all that they have accumulated. The reality of the CBA is that if this rebuild continues as planned, there are going to have to be some hard choices in a few years. If LeBron does return (not banking on it and not saying the Cavs should put any if at all their eggs in that basket), he and Kyrie are your max players (Durant and Westbrook, since the law apparently requires comparing all rebuilds to the OKC experience and I have been victim of this as well). Thompson could be the Ibaka type if he improves his defense, not a max player but a ten-figure guy all the same. If that all comes to pass, then a guy like Waiters (Harden being the comp) may have to go, even if he has blossomed into a 18-20 PPG scorer. We won't even get into what happens if they draft Shabazz/Noel/McLemore/Len, and he turns into a star player.

    Having a stream of first-round picks cushions the blow of those hard decisions. It also makes it more possible to carry good players instead of signing OK veterans for $5-6 million a year to round out the roster when you can get comparable production from rookies earning a third of that. So you have that much left to hopefully keep a Waiters or (fill in name of 2013 #1 pick).

    Finally I think this is a one time thing. Once the new CBA's minimum payroll kicks in, what the Cavs are doing now, i.e., maintaining a very low payroll for the purpose of trading cap space for draft picks, will be more difficult. The Cavs might have 1 more trade using this approach before the minimum payroll requirement makes this approach infeasible as in Speights. I think it is refreshing to have a GM who is smart and sees where the world is headed, and is preparing for that world instead of in panic mode for the past three years because they weren't where they were the previous 5 years and knew it would take a while to get back to that point. Glad too that the Cavs have an owner that you have to know wants to win but is patient enough to build this right for future purposes to once again to be very good for another 5-7 years instead of being impatient and being stuck in a tough future situation where they could have ended up as the Bucks, Hawks, Jazz of past years. Hitting on another superstar like Kyrie definately helped though.
    Last edited by ottograham14; 02-01-2013 at 10:32 AM.

    Sorry to see you go Wiggy. Should have went to FSU.

  14. #1649
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClevelandSpider View Post
    Did anyone other than Ferry think that was a good trade at the time?
    Sorry unlike the Indians forum I am not going to sit here and remember 2007 with you guys. Rather talk about the present and future.

    Sorry to see you go Wiggy. Should have went to FSU.

  15. #1650
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    Quote Originally Posted by ottograham14 View Post
    Sorry unlike the Indians forum I am not going to sit here and remember 2007 with you guys. Rather talk about the present and future.
    That's a cop out. Ever hear of the saying "if you don't learn from the past you're doomed to repeat it"

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