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  1. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    honestly just a draft pick. Don't see anyone giving up young talent for him.
    That's a fair guess. I'm curious what Grant can do with all these expiring contracts. Hell, I wouldn't mind him trading Speights (assuming he's leaving) and taking a chance on an under-performing young player in a change of scenery type scenario.

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, and to change the conversation, say hypothetically that Speights has already told Chris Grant that he is likely going to opt out of his contract after this season. What would you guys look for in a trade with him?
    Rudy Gay straight up. Sorry too tempting.

    From what I have heard is that Grant is looking for a first round pick in 2014 for Speights if he does move him. The reasoning is he probably believes that the Cavs will use Miami's first round pick this year as LAL might not make the playoffs and then next year would only be left with their own first rounder as Miami's second 1st rounder that they owe the Cavs would be pushed to 2015 since you cant trade 1st round picks in consecutive years. Would probably use the #1 pick obtained by Speights for a trade up if there is someone he likes or possibly in a sign and trade for a Max Superstar in 2014 ala what Miami did with the Cavs so James could get more money.

    If he does move Speights for another First round pick that would mean that Jon Leuer netted two first round picks. A guy playing in the D-League for the majority of the season. No matter what you think that is Grant doing work and taking advantage of the system in the league these days.

  3. #1623
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    I had heard the rumor of the 2014 1st rounder after the last trade but forgot all about it. Thanks for bringing that back up. The Lakers need to pick their **** up. I can't believe they lost to the Suns last night and let Beasley dominate them

  4. #1624
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    At the very least a 1st rounder. Anything less is pointless.
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  5. #1625
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    Here's an interesting article on the Cavs and "Tanking"

    The Cleveland Cavaliers should be done tanking for draft picks

    The past few seasons have been particularly rough for the Cavaliers and their fans. But I believe that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And it's time to start moving towards that light.
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    Last week I wrote about how far the Cleveland Cavaliers have come since LeBron James took his talents to South Beach. While I stand by everything that I wrote in that article, it mostly pertains to the front office and the assets that the organization has been able to acquire over the past 2 years. If you look at the win column, it remains fairly consistent. And this is mostly by design. I feel as though we've done a good job here at Fear The Sword promoting the idea that it's better to tank for a top-5 draft pick than to push for the 8th seed and sit in NBA purgatory.
    However, I think we may have done too good of a job getting that point across to those of you that read FTS on a regular basis. What makes me say this? Because after the Cavaliers' trade with the Memphis Grizzlies, I had multiple people on Twitter asking me why we would do a trade like that, complaining that it would ruin our chances at tanking. And I don't think I've really been pushing the tanking agenda this year, but I guess it carried over from last year.
    Last season, I thought tanking for the best draft pick possible was absolutely necessary. I do not think that is the case this season. Here are the differences from last year to this year that make me feel this way.
    There is no Anthony Davis
    I don't necessarily buy the idea that this draft crazy weak in comparison to last year's draft. But I will admit that there is no Anthony Davis. It was obvious all year long that Davis was incredibly special and had a very good chance to be a franchise changing superstar. If the Cavaliers had been able to pair him up with Kyrie Irving, it would have been glorious and to be honest, I'm getting a little sad thinking about what could have been. But seriously, that's a big part of why the Cavs needed to tank so hard. Any extra chance at winning the lottery and getting Davis was worth it. Sure, improving our chances for Bradley Beal, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, or whoever else was nice too, but it was all about Davis. The drop-off between getting Davis and anybody else was significant.
    In this draft, there are a lot of players that I like a lot. I really like Nerlens Noel and I would love to draft him. But if the Cavs don't get him, there are plenty of other good options throughout the top eight or 10 prospects. There is no consensus #1 pick and I'd be happy with Ben McLemore, Shabazz Muhammad, Alex Len, Otto Porter, and a number of other players if the Cavs missed out on Noel. That means the incentive to tank for the top pick isn't quite there. It's always nice to have the highest pick possible, but I'm not as excited about it as I was last year.
    Antawn Jamison and Anthony Parker are gone.
    "No ****, Sherlock," is what you're saying. But it makes a difference. Last year, there would be games when these veteran players would actually win games for the Cavs. They were clearly not going to be a part of this team's longterm plan and any win that they provided was nothing more than taking us farther away from Anthony Davis.
    This year, however, Chris Grant has managed to get rid of nearly all veterans that could potentially win us basketball games. Now, if the Cavs win it's because Kyrie Irving, Tristan Thompson, or Dion Waiters won the game. Obviously, I have nothing wrong with our young talent winning games. We want them to succeed, right? That's the goal?
    So given the choice between watching Waiters, Thompson, and Tyler Zeller improve a ton through the second half of the year and tanking for a chance at Cody Zeller, I'll take the former. If our 20 year olds want to go .500 for the rest of the season and have us drafting 8th in June, go for it.
    To directly address the concerns that I got on Twitter, yes, Marreese Speights and Wayne Ellington make us better in the short term and are not necessarily involved in the long term plans. But are either of those guys going to really make that much of a difference? No, but they provide some bench support and Speights, especially, should be able to give Zeller some help in the paint. I didn't like how much Zeller was playing, so the Speights addition is welcome.
    We're already pretty damn bad.
    If you haven't looked at the standings recently, the Cavaliers are 13-33. That's good for the 3rd worst record in the league, just ahead of the Washington Wizards and Charlotte Bobcats. It would take a pretty crazy run to take the Cavs out of the bottom 6 or 7 teams in the league. As they stand now, the Cavs are pretty much guaranteed to be picking in the top half of the lottery. As I said before, that's probably good enough if this draft. I haven't really studied the prospects enough to see where the "drop-off" would be. But I'm not too scared about the Cavaliers missing out. Whereas top-1 and, to a lesser degree, top-3 were fairly important last season, it's not that big of a deal -- at least I don't think so right now.
    There's nothing the Cavs can really do right now to improve their team so much that they get taken out of the running for one of the top prospects. Trading for Rudy Gay might have changed that, but he's been traded to the Toronto Raptors. There's not really anything else the Cavs can do to propel themselves out of the cellar. Marreese Speights and Wayne Ellington certainly aren't going to do the trick. And that's fine.
    I'm tired of losing.
    And I'm sure that I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm sure Byron Scott agrees with me. I'm sure Dan Gilbert agrees with me. I'm sure Kyrie Irving agrees with me.
    Now, I'm not one of those people who's going to freak out about the very slim chance of Kyrie Irving turning down an enormous extension and leaving after his rookie deal is up. But I also understand that losing for a long time isn't fun for anybody. Even if it helps for draft positioning purposes, it's still losing. And I hate losing. Any competitive person hates losing. I hate losing a single game of Super Smash Bros with my friends. I hate losing card games with my grandmother. I hate losing computer games with my 8 year old cousin. I hate losing bowling to my lady friend. Losing sucks. I think I hate losing more than I like winning. And we've been losing for a long time.
    I don't buy the idea that we're establishing a "losing culture" because I think that's crap. But I do think winning takes some getting used to and I think you have to learn how to win. It's pretty apparent that this Cavs team is still learning how to win. They'll play great for 35-40 minutes and then the other team (usually with more veterans) will kick it into overdrive. And the Cavs get popped in the mouth and don't know how to respond. How many leads have we seen them blow this year? How many close games have they lost in the final minutes? The sooner that these young guys can develop that killer instinct and ability to lock down a win (especially at home), the better. Might as well get some practice now.
    I'm done with the idea that playing well but losing close games is what's best for this team. Because if we expect the Cavs to be competitive next year and seriously pursue the playoffs, they're going to have to start winning those close games. Start doing it now. Also: losing sucks.
    So what does this mean?
    It means that I'm done with tanking. We had a good run, tanking, but it's over. I kind of enjoyed the time that we spent together, we had some good memories, but it's over. I'm moving on. See that smoking hot girl over there? Her name is winning. We used to have a thing together. I think I'm gonna go see if she'll take me back. It's been a while, but if I remember correctly, she was freaking awesome.
    http://www.fearthesword.com/2013/1/3...or-draft-picks
    #FireMikeBrown

  6. #1626
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    I think we'd all like for this team to start winning but it's not like we can flip a switch and make it happen like that article suggests. This current team is not built to win. We have young, developing talent and not much veteran talent to go along with it. This was going to be a bumpy season from the start, most of us knew that coming in. Add in us losing Varejao for most of the year, Kyrie missing time, Waiters missing time, and I think our record is about what we'd expect. This kind of seems like a fan-boy article. The author wants to win, I respect that, but he's foolish if he thinks this team is going to go .500 the rest of the way.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    I think we'd all like for this team to start winning but it's not like we can flip a switch and make it happen like that article suggests. This current team is not built to win. We have young, developing talent and not much veteran talent to go along with it. This was going to be a bumpy season from the start, most of us knew that coming in. Add in us losing Varejao for most of the year, Kyrie missing time, Waiters missing time, and I think our record is about what we'd expect. This kind of seems like a fan-boy article. The author wants to win, I respect that, but he's foolish if he thinks this team is going to go .500 the rest of the way.
    Well if Kyrie/Dion/Etc stay healthy, and with the boost in our bench from the Memphis trade, as well as an easier schedule the rest of the way it is certainly possible. I think 30 games is reasonable.
    #FireMikeBrown

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    I think we'd all like for this team to start winning but it's not like we can flip a switch and make it happen like that article suggests. This current team is not built to win. We have young, developing talent and not much veteran talent to go along with it. This was going to be a bumpy season from the start, most of us knew that coming in. Add in us losing Varejao for most of the year, Kyrie missing time, Waiters missing time, and I think our record is about what we'd expect. This kind of seems like a fan-boy article. The author wants to win, I respect that, but he's foolish if he thinks this team is going to go .500 the rest of the way.
    Agreed! I mean even if we stayed healthy we still won't win very much. Right now its about building threw the draft and using all the draft picks and exprings as trade bait for young talent.

    People can bash tanking all they want, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Everyone here admits FA's won't come here unless you overpay. So that means draft. Honestly i don't think they even are tanking. Just not a good team right now.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  9. #1629
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    Looking at the schedule if players stay healthy...

    Feb

    Det - W
    OKC - L
    Cha - W
    Orl - W
    Den - L
    Min - W
    SAS - L
    NO - W
    Orl - W
    Mia - L
    Chi - L
    Tor - W

    7-5 for Feb

    Mar

    LAC - L
    NYK - L
    UTH - L
    Mem - L
    Tor - W
    Was - W
    Dal - L
    Sas - L
    Ind - L
    Mia - L
    Hou - L
    Bos - W
    Phi - L
    No - W

    4-10 for March

    April

    Atl - L
    Bkn - L
    Bos - W
    Orl - W
    Ind - W
    Det - W
    NYK - L
    Phi - W
    Mia - W (resting starters for playoffs)
    Cha - W

    7-3 for April

    That makes their record 18-18 the rest of the way. Completely doable! And with 31 wins to end the season. Obviously they'll lose to some teams like Orlando, or Charlotte, but then I think they might beat the Knicks or Dallas...
    Last edited by Arch Stanton; 01-31-2013 at 07:44 PM.
    #FireMikeBrown

  10. #1630
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    Arch once again i wanna ask you how you expect the Cavs to get better. Because this current team won't win a championship. So we need to improve.

    You have stated that FA's won't come here. But then you wanna keep winning and lose our odds at a top pick and in a ''weak'' draft class the best players will be gone prob in the top 3-4. So you don't wanna improve threw draft or FA's. got a master plan for a trade or something?
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  11. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    Arch once again i wanna ask you how you expect the Cavs to get better. Because this current team won't win a championship. So we need to improve.

    You have stated that FA's won't come here. But then you wanna keep winning and lose our odds at a top pick and in a ''weak'' draft class the best players will be gone prob in the top 3-4. So you don't wanna improve threw draft or FA's. got a master plan for a trade or something?
    Because there isn't a standout #1 guy in this draft. It's more important to start winning. You will still get a quality lotto pick. And a better team will be more attractive to FA.
    #FireMikeBrown

  12. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    That makes their record 18-18 the rest of the way. Completely doable! And with 31 wins to end the season. Obviously they'll lose to some teams like Orlando, or Charlotte, but then I think they might beat the Knicks or Dallas...
    That's a good look Arch but like you said it's tough to say with any certainty how we'll actually perform in these games. I mean hell, we just got blown out by Golden State's reserves. I can't confidently say we'll be able to win that many games the rest of the way. But, like you said, a lot of this is dependent on how our young talent develops the rest of the way.

  13. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Stanton View Post
    Because there isn't a standout #1 guy in this draft. It's more important to start winning. You will still get a quality lotto pick. And a better team will be more attractive to FA.
    Even if we win 30 games this is still not an attractive team for a FA. We will be attacking FA's in 2014-2015 FA period anyway not next season. Why would the Cavs overpay someone in the off-season when guys like Lebron will be FA's the following season? weather you think Lebron will come here or not you know Cleveland will have the cap space just incase.

    So, get a top 3 pick this draft. Team him up with TT, Waiters, Zeller and Irving, see what you can do with the Draft picks and exprings we have. Watch that team improve and gel next season which i could see them winning well over 30 games. Then a FA (Lebron hopefully) would wanna come here.
    For not honoring a sig bet I now own YEDB90

  14. #1634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melo15 View Post
    That's a good look Arch but like you said it's tough to say with any certainty how we'll actually perform in these games. I mean hell, we just got blown out by Golden State's reserves. I can't confidently say we'll be able to win that many games the rest of the way. But, like you said, a lot of this is dependent on how our young talent develops the rest of the way.
    I might subtract a couple of wins... But really if Kyrie is this premier PG then why not?
    #FireMikeBrown

  15. #1635
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy View Post
    Even if we win 30 games this is still not an attractive team for a FA. We will be attacking FA's in 2014-2015 FA period anyway not next season. Why would the Cavs overpay someone in the off-season when guys like Lebron will be FA's the following season? weather you think Lebron will come here or not you know Cleveland will have the cap space just incase.

    So, get a top 3 pick this draft. Team him up with TT, Waiters, Zeller and Irving, see what you can do with the Draft picks and exprings we have. Watch that team improve and gel next season which i could see them winning well over 30 games. Then a FA (Lebron hopefully) would wanna come here.
    The 30 games win shouldn't have much correlation to this season. Just more of a building block for next season. If they make the playoffs next season perhaps it'll be more desirable for FA? If the team can perform the way we want them to perform then why not let them do their thang...
    #FireMikeBrown

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