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  1. #1
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    Marginalized groups in the U.S.

    There was a shooting and death of an innocent victim here in Chicago today (surprise surprise)

    http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/no...d-chicago-girl

    And with this whole Israel Palestine thing going on, and how we can all see so clearly the absolutely sickening acts of Israel, and its affect on a population. But what about us right here in the US? What about our marginalized groups in this country?

    Southside Chicago is a straight up war zone, and if anybody don't believe me, I would invite you to see visit the area on a nice summer night. Gun violence has claimed 4 lives and injured 32 since friday night.

    How has such a dangerous situation arisen right here in our own backyard? What policies are WE implementing which are completely marginalizing and disenfranchising entire communities? Just because our tactics are not as up front and radical as say Israel, are we not just as an oppressive policies targeting particular communities right here in our own country? These policies are part of a vicious cycle in which the system is designed to set up so many people for failure. Policies such as for profit prison systems. Incentive laden law enforcement systems. Broken school systems.

    For some reason, I just wonder that what's happening on the other side of the world is happening right here in front of us too, but why is it so hard for us to see that?

  2. #2
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    Not too long ago I had a clinical rotation in the trauma dept of one of the biggest hospitals here in Chicago, and I remembered about two weeks into it, the first time we had no gun shot victims come in. And I remembered thinking to myself, wow, this is SO weird, what happened tonight? Not even one single person got shot and brought in today? I wonder what is happening out there, maybe there's a storm or something? Not til I got home and said that to my girlfriend did I realize, wow, how ****ed up is that? Nobody got shot today, and it truly shocked me and the other people in the trauma dept.

    And I could see that cycle just continuing in front of my eyes, people laying there laced up and hanging on to life with the help of machines, people dying in front of us, and I could see it on their family members face, revenge was just written all over them. Such a ****ed up situation, just truly a situation in which lives are absolutely turned upside down on a daily basis, and no one seems to bat an eye.

  3. #3
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    Republicans..

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post

    For some reason, I just wonder that what's happening on the other side of the world is happening right here in front of us too, but why is it so hard for us to see that?
    Basically because it's almost the status quo now, and it got this way slowly. The reason it's not in the press is because it's so routine it is not newsworthy. Sad, but true. The other reason would be that some people have an extremely deadly hobby that they hold dear to their hearts. That hobby is more valuable to them than the lives of tens of thousands of their fellow citizens (~32,000 a year or so, and set to exceed traffic fatality deaths next year). Those of us who own guns have decided that death is a price we are willing to have other people pay.
    “A riot,” said Martin Luther King, “is the language of the unheard.”

  5. #5
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    The issue now is gun accessibility. The issue in the past was things like the projects. Those are gone, but we haven't gotten rid of the culture of violence in Chicago's gangs that unfortunately affects (is largely composed of) undereducated, poor black and hispanic communities.

    I haven't a clue what the fix is, but a major culture change needs to happen in those communities, too.


  6. #6
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    I like how this isn't just about the 11 year old that was shot, it's also about how terrible Israel is.

    1. Gun laws don't do a very good job of controlling gun crimes.
    2. Fix the ****ing culture in Chicago. You don't need a politician for that, better parenting is a start.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  7. #7
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    Sensible gun laws are a part of the solution. I agree with FB that parenting styles are a bigger part of the problem. Violence begets more violence, this is a proven fact. Someone must step up and break the cycle and show that they can be the bigger person and the cycle can be broken.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    I like how this isn't just about the 11 year old that was shot, it's also about how terrible Israel is.

    1. Gun laws don't do a very good job of controlling gun crimes.
    The UK has .24 gun-related deaths per hundred thousand people. Australia has 1.06 gun-related deaths per hundred thousand people, since they virtually outlawed guns. The US? 9.42 gun-related deaths per hundred thousand people. Real, strong gun regulations greatly decrease gun-related deaths. We just aren't willing to put those in place, weighing 30,000 dead Americans a year versus our yen to own guns. Ten 09/11's worth of deaths a year don't phase us a bit on this issue. The psychology of it is mind boggling to me. Remember how we were willing to spend $6 trillion, violate international law, and go hog wild invading semi-random countries over 90% fewer deaths than that?

    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang
    2. Fix the ****ing culture in Chicago. You don't need a politician for that, better parenting is a start.
    If this were even close to being limited to Chicago, your 2nd point would make sense. Tens of thousands of Americans a year are shot to death outside of Chicago. There is one and only one common element among all those deaths, and it isn't bad parenting or any particular "culture". It's a bullet hole.
    Last edited by Labgrownmangoat; 07-21-2014 at 02:31 PM.
    “A riot,” said Martin Luther King, “is the language of the unheard.”

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labgrownmangoat View Post
    The UK has .24 gun-related deaths per hundred thousand people. Australia has 1.06 gun-related deaths per hundred thousand people, since they virtually outlawed guns. The US? 9.42 gun-related deaths per hundred thousand people. Real, strong gun regulations greatly decrease gun-related deaths. We just aren't willing to put those in place, weighing 30,000 dead Americans a year versus our yen to own guns. Ten 09/11's worth of deaths a year don't phase us a bit on this issue. The psychology of it is mind boggling to me. Remember how we were willing to spend $6 trillion, violate international law, and go hog wild invading semi-random countries over 90% fewer deaths than that?



    If this were even close to being limited to Chicago, your 2nd point would make sense. Tens of thousands of Americans a year are shot to death outside of Chicago. There is one and only one common element among all those deaths, and it isn't bad parenting. It's a bullet hole.
    Largely in other inner-cities that like Chicago, also have stricter gun laws than other areas of the country. Gun laws aren't working very well here.

    Stuff like stop and frisk actually works but people don't like it because it's unconstitutional. So is taking away guns from people who have obtained them legally.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  10. #10
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    With respect to inner cities, gang control is what we need, not gun control. Gang members don't care about laws, they break them professionally.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    Largely in other inner-cities that like Chicago, also have stricter gun laws than other areas of the country. Gun laws aren't working very well here.

    Stuff like stop and frisk actually works but people don't like it because it's unconstitutional. So is taking away guns from people who have obtained them legally.
    This is a little disingenuous. Sure chicago has stronger gun laws.... Laws restricting access to firearms that only cover a small swath of land are pretty meaningless. Imagine if Cook county was a dry country. Do you think people would still have alcohol there? Of course... Not that hard to drive to will or dupage county.

    There should be solid national laws on this issue. The UK and austrialian laws work (the second in a country almost as gun obsessed as us) comparing national laws on islands to one in a city enacts is just a little silly.

    I know they have gang problems in Britian and France but not a bunch of shootings. part of the problem is the ease of access. (even in a city like chicago because chicago can not control the surrounding land's laws.)
    Last edited by flips333; 07-21-2014 at 03:24 PM.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    This is a little disingenuous. Sure chicago has stronger gun laws.... Laws restricting access to firearms that only cover a small swath of land are pretty meaningless. Imagine if Cook county was a dry country. Do you think people would still have alcohol there? Of course... Not that hard to drive to will or dupage county.

    There should be solid national laws on this issue. The UK and austrialian laws work (the second in a country almost as gun obsessed as us) comparing national laws on islands to one in a city enacts is just a little silly.

    I know they have gang problems in Britian and France but not a bunch of shootings. part of the problem is the ease of access. (even in a city like chicago because chicago can not control the surrounding land's laws.)
    The same principle applies to marijuana. Policing it doesn't work very well.

    Something like 80% of gun homicides are gang related. That's staggering and it's obviously a cultural thing. No one that lives/lived in the hood denies gang influence on society in inner cities. I'm all for cracking down on illegal firearms but it's easier said than done.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fingerbang View Post
    The same principle applies to marijuana. Policing it doesn't work very well.

    Something like 80% of gun homicides are gang related. That's staggering and it's obviously a cultural thing. No one that lives/lived in the hood denies gang influence on society in inner cities. I'm all for cracking down on illegal firearms but it's easier said than done.
    Same goes for changing the gang culture in the inner cities. Easier said than done.

    As far as gun deaths more people shoot themselves than shoot other people. Dealing with gangs will do nothing with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  14. #14
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    In Chicago (live just outside the city) most of the shooting are entirely gang related. There are entire neighborhoods that aren't safe because of gangs. It's not as simple as saying one thing is the driving force behind this. That said, in my mind the lack of two parent households is a much bigger deal than guns. Guns are and have been everywhere and were outlawed in Chicago completely until recently.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    Same goes for changing the gang culture in the inner cities. Easier said than done.

    As far as gun deaths more people shoot themselves than shoot other people. Dealing with gangs will do nothing with that.
    Agreed, it is easier said and done but that's the root of the problem. There's literally a war going on in the American inner cities and people get killed as a result of it. It's not like anything in Britain or France. If that war goes away gun related crimes drop dramatically.

    Suicide is suicide, it's unrelated.
    Bachelors III . . . In the Inn. . . Lanas Garage 4/18/75 . . . lpswitch with Snake, Hards and Mendy . . .B.D.W.B. . . Ambition: I want Dooleys Job . . . Saturday Night Live . . . Bathroom Brawls . . . Living at Snakes . . . WHERE IS MUSKY. - John Tortorella

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