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  1. #31
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    It depends on who is doing the rating. There are some that think he is undisputably the top QB in the NFL by a wide margin. If that's the standard, then yes, I believe he is overrated. But if you think he is the best QB in the NFL and one of the top players of all time, that isn't overrating him IMO. It all depends on the person you're talking to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander_37 View Post
    He will retire as the most prolific and in my mind the best QB ever. That's it.

    If he had a decent defense and/or running game he would have multiple championships.
    Another Colts apologist.

    Being the most prolific means jack squat anyways. Brett Favre isn't the best QB that ever lived right now is he?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    I don't care about SB wins or regular season totals. I don't care about stats.

    I care about watching the players and making observations that tell me who is better. Manning has his dog and pony show at the LOS and that's cute and all but Brady is as just as much in command of his offense as is Peyton. Don't let them fool you. He isn't just a BB puppet. Not to mention he seems to be a better mentor to his young players, sorry Peyton, but he always seems so dickish when someone makes a mistake and I watched this year for example Tom really take those young TE's under his wing and make them better. Not to mention don't act like Peyton would be the same if he didn't have Tom Moore. Dude's a freaking genius.

    He makes all the throws. His ability to throw with the right touch and right trajectory is uncanny. He also doesn't take phantom sacks like Peyton now does, which is whack.

    I just think he can do all the same things, has had lesser weapons over the course of his career, always wins....say it's his defense or coaching or what have you, shown to be clutch many times etc etc.

    But there are far too many people who automatically think Peyton is better for all the wrong reasons. (Like Visa commercials)
    I overwhelming disagree. I appreciate that your aware that Brady has had the better coaching and D over his career that Peyton has had. I appreciate that you've narrowed you argument down to skill sets opposed to accolades and rings etc. Yet I just do not believe Brady is a better QB than Peyton skill set wise. I've watched just about every pass that Peyton has thrown in his career. His accuracy is flawless, no better. That's my opinion. I'm not a Brady hater by no means. A lot of Patriot fans on this forum will tell you that.

    Someone earlier mentioned Peyton having 10 more INT's than Cassel this year. Just for the record. The Colts were tops in the league in drop passes and approximately half of those INT's were a result of errors by his WR's. Balls ricocheting of hands, shoulder pads etc.. I also stress law of large numbers as well (Peyton had to throw the ball 50% more than Cassel). I also cannot stress enough how awful the Colts O-line has been the past 5 years. Not to mention the league's worse run game.

    Peyton's worse flaw is being a perfectionist. Peyton is viewed as immortal, almost robotic. So "perfectly viewed" that people forget football is a team sport. That stands true in the regular season and post season.
    Last edited by DieHardColtsfan; 06-07-2011 at 01:38 AM.


  4. #34
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    You gotta look Beyond the Stats and really look at how horrible the Colts would Be without Manning under center.. That team is mediocre at best.. Manning make something out of nothing year after year.. I dont see how he can be overrated

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrettyBoyJ View Post
    You gotta look Beyond the Stats and really look at how horrible the Colts would Be without Manning under center.. That team is mediocre at best.. Manning make something out of nothing year after year.. I dont see how he can be overrated
    Bro I've been trying to stress this several times subtly throughout this forum. Not as direct as you, but if you read my posts throughout you will get the idea.


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    It depends on who is doing the rating. There are some that think he is undisputably the top QB in the NFL by a wide margin. If that's the standard, then yes, I believe he is overrated. But if you think he is the best QB in the NFL and one of the top players of all time, that isn't overrating him IMO. It all depends on the person you're talking to.
    If you are putting him ahead of Brady you are overrating him. I'm sorry but it's the truth.

    If you are starting a franchise and you do a draft for one year, there's no way I'm taking Manning over Brady, no way.
    Quote Originally Posted by DieHardColtsfan View Post
    I overwhelming disagree. I appreciate that your aware that Brady has had the better coaching and D over his career that Peyton has had. I appreciate that you've narrowed you argument down to skill sets opposed to accolades and rings etc. Yet I just do not believe Brady is a better QB than Peyton skill set wise. I've watched just about every pass that Peyton has thrown in his career. His accuracy is flawless, no better. That's my opinion. I'm not a Brady hater by no means. A lot of Patriot fans on this forum will tell you that.

    Someone earlier mentioned Peyton having 10 more INT's than Cassel this year. Just for the record. The Colts were tops in the league in drop passes and approximately half of those INT's were a result of errors by his WR's. Balls ricocheting of hands, shoulder pads etc..
    I wouldn't say Brady had better coaching. It's not like Dungy and Moore were dog ****.

    Also that dropped passes tipped passes it wasn't the QB's fault for his INT's crap is pretty played out. It may be true but I had it being used as an excuse.
    Quote Originally Posted by PrettyBoyJ View Post
    You gotta look Beyond the Stats and really look at how horrible the Colts would Be without Manning under center.. That team is mediocre at best.. Manning make something out of nothing year after year.. I dont see how he can be overrated
    How the hell would we know? Until Cassell won them 11 games they might have said the Pats would be awful without Brady.

    People act like he's turning water into wine. Guess what, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne...those dudes don't owe Peyton Manning ****. They would have been good players just about anywhere they played.

    And then we're going to talk about all these recent guys like Garcon and Tamme and Collie that were mediocre prospects who are productive. Okay then if we are talking recent then how come Brady's defense recently is total dog **** but he still gets them to 12+ win seasons? Magic?

    Or does the fact that he used to have a good defense make it easier to for him to win in the present?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    If you are putting him ahead of Brady you are overrating him. I'm sorry but it's the truth.

    If you are starting a franchise and you do a draft for one year, there's no way I'm taking Manning over Brady, no way.


    I wouldn't say Brady had better coaching. It's not like Dungy and Moore were dog ****.

    Also that dropped passes tipped passes it wasn't the QB's fault for his INT's crap is pretty played out. It may be true but I had it being used as an excuse.


    How the hell would we know? Until Cassell won them 11 games they might have said the Pats would be awful without Brady.

    People act like he's turning water into wine. Guess what, Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne...those dudes don't owe Peyton Manning ****. They would have been good players just about anywhere they played.

    And then we're going to talk about all these recent guys like Garcon and Tamme and Collie that were mediocre prospects who are productive. Okay then if we are talking recent then how come Brady's defense recently is total dog **** but he still gets them to 12+ win seasons? Magic?

    Or does the fact that he used to have a good defense make it easier to for him to win in the present?
    I love Tom Moore and I agree the guy is an absolute genius. If assistant coaches made the HOF he would be one. With that said Dungy was also a good leader and man, yet I put Belichick and his staff miles ahead of Dungy's staff. I mean look at Dungy's successor Jim Caldwell. He is the worst coach employed in the NFL. I don't know how more direct I can be. I would take Belichick and his staff (as well as the Patriots D) over the Colts staff and D over the past decade. Your completely discrediting one of the best coaches of all time and some of the best D's of the past decade, to try to rise Brady above Manning. This thread is more about bashing Manning than truely appreciating the two best passers that we may ever see. Im not getting into a pissing match. Im a Colts fan, I side with Peyton. Call it homerism. I am a football fan first. Many Pats fans will vouch for that. Put this to a poll on PSD like we've done in the past and Peyton wins (we've done it multiple times). Why? Maybe every hates the Pats on this site who knows. Just like everyone hates the Yankees.
    Last edited by DieHardColtsfan; 06-07-2011 at 01:53 AM.


  8. #38
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    Peyton wins because the perception is Brady is a villian and Manning is a hero.

    BB is known by everyone. He's shown out through the media all the time. He wears stupid swearshirts and is the master mind cheater.

    I bet like 90% of casual fans don't even know who Tom Moore is.

    This is the issue. It's media slant implanting a perception of certain things into viewers minds. They're corrupted and incapable of making their own observations and forming their own opinions.

    Maybe Brady has had a better coaching staff in his time. But like I said Dungy's staff with Moore etc wasn't chop liver. Polian is not a garbage GM. He knows what he's doing. Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday, etc...are not scrubs. The Colts run a system offense just like Tom Brady and the Pats run a system offense. There's been years when Manning's had a poor defense and Brady has had some of that lately as well. Etc etc.

    I think there's a case that can easily be made both ways but I very rarely see it made for Brady and all I hear is the same excuses over and over. It just gets old.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    If you are putting him ahead of Brady you are overrating him. I'm sorry but it's the truth.

    If you are starting a franchise and you do a draft for one year, there's no way I'm taking Manning over Brady, no way.
    I'm a Pats fan and I'd take Manning over Brady career wise.

    If you aked me to do a ranking for next season, I'd probably have Brady above Manning just because I can't ignore the statistical edge he has since 2005 (his #s since that season are God-like). But in a career sense and legacy wise, I think Manning is definatly above Brady at this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
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  10. #40
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    No QB has ever had to do as much as Peyton is asked to do. There has not been one QB in history to ever have COMPLETE control of an offense. Childress didn't even let Favre call audibles!!! I hate Caldwell so much, he looks so lost on the sidelines he reminds me of Wade Phillips.....there I said it.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    Peyton wins because the perception is Brady is a villian and Manning is a hero.

    BB is known by everyone. He's shown out through the media all the time. He wears stupid swearshirts and is the master mind cheater.

    I bet like 90% of casual fans don't even know who Tom Moore is.

    This is the issue. It's media slant implanting a perception of certain things into viewers minds. They're corrupted and incapable of making their own observations and forming their own opinions.

    Maybe Brady has had a better coaching staff in his time. But like I said Dungy's staff with Moore etc wasn't chop liver. Polian is not a garbage GM. He knows what he's doing. Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Jeff Saturday, etc...are not scrubs. The Colts run a system offense just like Tom Brady and the Pats run a system offense. There's been years when Manning's had a poor defense and Brady has had some of that lately as well. Etc etc.

    I think there's a case that can easily be made both ways but I very rarely see it made for Brady and all I hear is the same excuses over and over. It just gets old.
    Hey this is where we finally agree!

    I've mentioned this before in a familiar argument is years pasts. Is it Peyton's fault that the media loves him? He plays the game the right way, If the NFL could change the logo on footballs they would probably put his face. I do not disagree with that. The Pats like the Yanks have some issues that come with the territory. Its a sign of flattery when they are labeled the demon. Spygate certainly didn't help, similar to steroids accusations with many Yankee players. With that said I can't understand the few (there are a handful on this site) that just absolutely hate Manning and use every opportunity to bash him.

    There is one thing that i didn't want to mention before but I guess I will bring it up now. Marvin Harrison was the key component in Peyton's early success. Yes your right here. Peyton had this HOF weapon to help develop with. He utilized him as much as he could. I mean he broke reception records and everything. That is a fair name to bring up. But here is some harsh reality. I am an enormous Marv fan. Marvin's last 4 years as a Colt was very difficult to watch. He was beloved among fans (even though the guys personality was one of a rock). His career ended horribly. He suffered a knee injury that changed him as a WR completely. He was done the day he injured his knee. He was never the same. Yet the Colts and Peyton kept him on for 4 years. Peyton started throwing him courtesy passes and looks just b/c of who he was. He had no business being on the field a lot of time. He was being out performed by Aaron Moorehead and Troy Walters. So my point is. Peyton may have leaned on him early on, but Marv needed Peyton in his last 4 years. To remain relevant. Biggest reason Reggie Wayne became Reggie Wayne, was Peyton stopped throwing to Marv.
    Last edited by DieHardColtsfan; 06-07-2011 at 02:17 AM.


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I'm a Pats fan and I'd take Manning over Brady career wise.

    If you aked me to do a ranking for next season, I'd probably have Brady above Manning just because I can't ignore the statistical edge he has since 2005 (his #s since that season are God-like). But in a career sense and legacy wise, I think Manning is definatly above Brady at this point.
    I agree.


  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I'm a Pats fan and I'd take Manning over Brady career wise.

    If you aked me to do a ranking for next season, I'd probably have Brady above Manning just because I can't ignore the statistical edge he has since 2005 (his #s since that season are God-like). But in a career sense and legacy wise, I think Manning is definatly above Brady at this point.
    I may too but we aren't talking about careers. and Tom's career has more rings. Screw stats.
    Quote Originally Posted by thaShady View Post
    No QB has ever had to do as much as Peyton is asked to do. There has not been one QB in history to ever have COMPLETE control of an offense. Childress didn't even let Favre call audibles!!! I hate Caldwell so much, he looks so lost on the sidelines he reminds me of Wade Phillips.....there I said it.
    Jim Kelly? I mean hell that dude was his own OC. He called all his own plays. Manning isn't that freaking God like.

    I hate when people blow about how he can go to the line with 3 plays in his head or whatever the hell they say on tv and everyone goes ooooooohhh ahhhhhhhh he's a genius. Jim Kelly had every play in the playbook in his head and he called them out of the no huddle before every snap.

    They had a poll in SI a few months back and the question was "who is the most intelligent player in the NFL" Peyton won by like 30%. It's **** like that makes me start to lose faith in humanity.
    Last edited by Norm; 06-07-2011 at 02:20 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by NormSizedMidget View Post
    I may too but we aren't talking about careers. and Tom's career has more rings. Screw stats.


    Jim Kelly? I mean hell that dude was his own OC. He called all his own plays. Manning isn't that freaking God like.
    You completely contradicting yourself. At first it was about the QB's skills. Now its back to rings..

    If your argument is based on rings, I will remain on my argument that you should not be ignorant to the fact that Peyton didn't have the luxury of working under one of the best head coaches in NFL history and having a top notch D on the other side of the ball.


  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieHardColtsfan View Post
    You completely contradicting yourself. At first it was about the QB's skills. Now its back to rings..

    If your argument is based on rings, I will remain on my argument that you should not be ignorant to the fact that Peyton didn't have the luxury of working under one of the best head coaches in NFL history and having a top notch D on the other side of the ball.
    I wasn't talking about careers then either. I was talking about the quality of the current player. It's not a contradiction at all.

    If we are going to compare Manning versus Brady at this current moment past SB wins and accomplishments are irrelevant.

    If we are going to compare careers then they become something that can be used to gauge them.

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