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View Poll Results: 2000 Shaq, 2003 Duncan, 2004 Garnett, 2006 Kobe, 2009 Lebron

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  • 2000 Shaq

    19 73.08%
  • 2003 Duncan

    2 7.69%
  • 2004 Garnett

    3 11.54%
  • 2006 Kobe

    1 3.85%
  • 2009 Lebron

    1 3.85%
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  1. #1
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    2000 Shaq, 2003 Duncan, 2004 Garnett, 2006 Kobe, 2009 Lebron

    2000 Shaq, 2003 Duncan, 2004 Garnett, 2006 Kobe, 2009 Lebron if all are in the league at the same time and on elite teams, who do you think wins MVP?
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
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  2. #2
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    You gotta respect peak Shaq. He is in that rarified air of dominating the league that only Jordan and Wilt achieved.

  3. #3
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    Shaq was dominant, but the only reason he was so, was because the officials turned a blind eye to all of his offensive fouls and over-the-back fouls. Garnett is a solid pick, and I wouldnt argue anybody who would chose him, 2006 Kobe was all ego and no team-play, and LBJ, while the greatest basketball player in the game, hasnt proved himself to be a winner.

    So my choice (with Garnett finishing a respectable second) would be Duncan. I'm going to assume that officials will call games evenly, and that said Shaq's effectiveness would be brought down (he relied too much on his physical gifts and not enough on his work ethic, and hence never really developed his game, and couldnt defend worth $#!T outside of the post, where, yes, he was very dominant). Duncan could defend in the post, and step out to guard front court players with range who rolled out on the high pick and roll (something Shaq had not inclination to even TRY: see his match up against Sabonis for evidence). Garnett could defend likely as well as Duncan, and was a better rebounder, but Duncan has had a more rounded offensive game (though again, it is very close) and of all the player mentioned Duncan is the best facilitator, which for me, puts him on a par with Magic and Bird. Bird and Magic both helped guys reach their potential, Magic especially with late first round picks like Vlade, Green, Scott, Perkins among others, and Duncan has done the same for any number of guys who have come through the spurs organization. Bowen was a reject from non-playoff teams who cut him, and became a starter on a champion, Parker, Ginobili, later first or second round picks who came into their own under Duncan, Roger Mason was riding the bench on a lottery team and came to SA only to become a starter on a 50+ win team. Rookies like Hill, Blair and Neal have all been able to get their game going early in their careers while guys like Matt Bonner have evn been seen as effective. His passing, scoring, rebounding and defence makes him the best package to build around.

    Kobe is awesome, but without a great front court presence (Shaq, Gasol) it is hard to build around a shooting guard as history will tell you. It is far easier to build around a C or PF. LBJ is amazing, but he got his @$$ handed to him by Duncan (as did Shaq AND Kobe- in the same season).

    so Imma go with Duncan.
    Last edited by JasonJohnHorn; 05-06-2011 at 05:03 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    You gotta respect peak Shaq. He is in that rarified air of dominating the league that only Jordan and Wilt achieved.
    Russel, Jabbar and The Big O were all hugely dominant, as was Mikan (for his time). Lets not forget Russell's 11 rings. Hakeem was closer to Jordan's ring totals than Wilt was to Russell's! And dont forget who has the record for most career points.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Shaq was dominant, but the only reason he was so, was because the officials turned a blind eye to all of his offensive fouls and over-the-back fouls. Garnett is a solid pick, and I would argue anybody who would chose him, 2006 Kobe was all ego and no team-play, and LBJ, while the greatest basketball player in the game, hasnt proved himself to be a winner.

    So my choice (with Garnett finishing a respectable second) would be Duncan. I'm going to assume that officials will call games evenly, and that said Shaq's effectiveness would be brought down (he relied too much on his physical gifts and not enough on his work ethic, and hence never really developed his game, and couldnt defend worth $#!T outside of the post, where, yes, he was very dominant). Duncan could defend in the post, and step out to guard front court players with range who rolled out on the high pick and roll (something Shaq had not inclination to even TRY: see his match up against Sabonis for evidence). Garnett could defend likely as well as Duncan, and was a better rebounder, but Duncan has had a more rounded offensive game (though again, it is very close) and of all the player mentioned Duncan is the best facilitator, which for me, puts him on a par with Magic and Bird. Bird and Magic both helped guys reach their potential, Magic especially with late first round picks like Vlade, Green, Scott, Perkins among others, and Duncan has done the same for any number of guys who have come through the spurs organization. Bowen was a reject from non-playoff teams who cut him, and became a starter on a champion, Parker, Ginobili, later first or second round picks who came into their own under Duncan, Roger Mason was riding the bench on a lottery team and came to SA only to become a starter on a 50+ win team. Rookies like Hill, Blair and Neal have all been able to get their game going early in their careers while guys like Matt Bonner have evn been seen as effective. His passing, scoring, rebounding and defence makes him the best package to build around.

    Kobe is awesome, but without a great front court presence (Shaq, Gasol) it is hard to build around a shooting guard as history will tell you. It is far easier to build around a C or PF. LBJ is amazing, but he got his @$$ handed to him by Duncan (as did Shaq AND Kobe- in the same season).

    so Imma go with Duncan.
    Nice post. Well said. Who can forget many times Shaq would lower that shoulder like a brahma bull and ram it right into the defender's chest and the defender would get the foul called on him.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hangtime View Post
    Nice post. Well said. Who can forget many times Shaq would lower that shoulder like a brahma bull and ram it right into the defender's chest and the defender would get the foul called on him.
    YES YES YES!!!! And now Howard gets away with it constantly! I hate that. Shaq also has the @$$ check which was and offensive foul, and I remember watching him trying to score on Mutumbo in the finals, and he just kept throwing his free arm over Mutumbo's shoulder... grrrr...... anywho. Love duncan.

  7. #7
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    Not buying this notion that Shaq relied too heavily on his physical gifts, how are you determining such a ratio? LOL how exactly is Shaq suppose to use his strength? Hes the strongest player in the league, are you saying he shouldnt bang because hes so big?


  8. #8
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    Shaq over LeBron in a very close call for me. Dominant centers should get a little extra credit.

  9. #9
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    Let's look at some numbers:

    Regular Season
    Code:
    	        PER	EWA	Ortg	DRtg	WS	WS/48
    09 Lebron	31.76	32.3	122	99	20.3	0.318
    10 Lebron	31.19	30.5	121	102	18.5	0.299
    06 Kobe	        28.0	28.5	114	105	15.3	0.224
    04 Garnett	29.4	28.8	112	92	18.3	0.272
    03 Duncan	26.9	24.4	112	94	16.4	0.248
    02 Duncan	27.0	25.7	114	96	17.8	0.257
    00 Shaq	        30.6	31.5	115	95	18.6	0.283
    Playoffs
    Code:
    	        PER	Ortg	DRtg	W/48
    09 Lebron	37.4	128	100	0.399
    10 Lebron	28.6	117	103	0.242
    06 Kobe	        19.9	108	114	0.087
    04 Garnett	25.0	100	94	0.163
    03 Duncan	28.4	116	92	0.279
    02 Duncan	31.8	109	94	0.247
    00 Shaq	        30.5	114	104	0.224
    EWA is Hollinger's Estimated Wins Added. I calculated it for everyone besides Lebron since the ESPN pages were all messed up for those seasons.

    For playoff stats, I didn't include Win Shares or EWA since those are cumulative stats. The guys who won the title are obviously going to have the highest total there and we all know who won the titles in which year.

    Statistically, Lebron's 09 season was the best and he absolutely beasted in the playoffs. 37.4 PER and 128 ORtg. Wow. However, 03 Duncan and 00 Shaq got titles. In my opinion, it is no doubt between 00 Shaq and 09 Lebron.

    IMO, 06 Kobe doesn't really belong on this list. Sure he had a great year but he had a horrible playoffs and his impact on the defensive end isn't enough to compare with the rest of the players on this list.
    Last edited by PatsSoxKnicks; 05-13-2011 at 07:08 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Shaq over LeBron slightly

  11. #11
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    1. 2000 Shaq - best nba season for him
    2. 2003 Duncan - incredible season, championship without a lot of help
    3. 2006 Kobe - 5th player ever to average 35+ ppg, just didnt have help
    Last edited by knightstemplar; 07-22-2011 at 03:32 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Not buying this notion that Shaq relied too heavily on his physical gifts, how are you determining such a ratio? LOL how exactly is Shaq suppose to use his strength? Hes the strongest player in the league, are you saying he shouldnt bang because hes so big?
    Dude, I think all he's saying is that Duncan had a more well rounded skillset which allowed him to excel or be above average at most things whereas Shaq had freakish size and strength which he leaned on heavily throughout his career at the expense of being a more well rounded player. Their respective approaches seemed to work well for both of them, and it's certainly a tough call, but I can see how someone would find Duncan a more enjoyable player to watch and maybe a little easier to appreciate.

    It's a toss-up for me between '03 Duncan and '04 Garnett.
    "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."
    Dr. Johnson

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHighLife View Post
    Shaq over LeBron slightly
    Where do put Duncan?
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  14. #14
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    How would you rank these guys in order?
    "Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships."
    - Michael Jordan

    Thanks MJ-Bulls for the picture.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsSOXknicks View Post
    Let's look at some numbers:

    Regular Season
    Code:
    	        PER	EWA	Ortg	DRtg	WS	WS/48
    09 Lebron	31.76	32.3	122	99	20.3	0.318
    10 Lebron	31.19	30.5	121	102	18.5	0.299
    06 Kobe	        28.0	28.5	114	105	15.3	0.224
    04 Garnett	29.4	28.8	112	92	18.3	0.272
    03 Duncan	26.9	24.4	112	94	16.4	0.248
    02 Duncan	27.0	25.7	114	96	17.8	0.257
    00 Shaq	        30.6	31.5	115	95	18.6	0.283
    Playoffs
    Code:
    	        PER	Ortg	DRtg	W/48
    09 Lebron	37.4	128	100	0.399
    10 Lebron	28.6	117	103	0.242
    06 Kobe	        19.9	108	114	0.087
    04 Garnett	25.0	100	94	0.163
    03 Duncan	28.4	116	92	0.279
    02 Duncan	31.8	109	94	0.247
    00 Shaq	        30.5	114	104	0.224
    EWA is Hollinger's Estimated Wins Added. I calculated it for everyone besides Lebron since the ESPN pages were all messed up for those seasons.

    For playoff stats, I didn't include Win Shares or EWA since those are cumulative stats. The guys who won the title are obviously going to have the highest total there and we all know who won the titles in which year.

    Statistically, Lebron's 09 season was the best and he absolutely beasted in the playoffs. 37.4 PER and 128 ORtg. Wow. However, 03 Duncan and 00 Shaq got titles. In my opinion, it is no doubt between 00 Shaq and 09 Lebron.

    IMO, 06 Kobe doesn't really belong on this list. Sure he had a great year but he had a horrible playoffs and his impact on the defensive end isn't enough to compare with the rest of the players on this list.
    PER PER PER PER PER PER.

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