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  1. #1
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    Now Indiana Democrats Fleeing State

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...t|IndyStar.com

    Seats on one side of the Indiana House were nearly empty today as House Democrats departed the the state rather than vote on anti-union legislation.

    A source tells the Indianapolis Star that Democrats are headed to Illinois, though it was possible some also might go to Kentucky. They need to go to a state with a Democratic governor to avoid being taken into police custody and returned to Indiana.

    The House was came into session twice this morning, with only three of the 40 Democrats present. Those were needed to make a motion, and a seconding motion, for any procedural steps Democrats would want to take to ensure Republicans don’t do anything official without quorum.


    With only 58 legislators present, there was no quorum present to do business. The House needs 67 of its members to be present.


    House Speaker Brian Bosma said he did not know yet whether he would ask the Indiana State Police to compel the lawmakers to attend, if they can be found.


    Today’s fight was triggered by Republicans pushing a bill that would bar unions and companies from negotiating a contract that requires non-union members to kick-in fees for representation. It’s become the latest in what is becoming a national fight over Republican attempts to eliminate or limit collective bargaining.


    Gov. Mitch Daniels had warned his party late last year against pursuing so-called “right to work” legislation. While he agreed with it philosophically, he said it was a big issue that needed a state-wide debate and noted no Republican had run on this in the November election.


    But now that his party is pursuing it, Daniels has not spoken against it. He has so far issued no statement, has held no news conference and has not been interviewed by any Indiana reporters in the Statehouse. Daniels did do a radio interview Monday with National Public Radio in which he discussed the labor fight which has caused a government stalemate in Wisconsin — where Senate Democrats have fled to Illinois to prevent a vote on a bill that limits collective bargaining --a now, apparently, his state.

    (Page 2 of 2)



    Today, the union members who have filled the Statehouse — an estimated 4,000 according to the Indiana State Police — held a rally, chanting such things as “Ditch Mitch” and “Save Our Families,” which he must have heard as he worked in his nearby Statehouse office.


    Union supporters say the bill which has sparked the protests, House Bill 1468 such a measure would weaken bargaining power because companies under collective bargaining agreements would no longer have to hire union members. Supporters, including the state's Chamber of Commerce, say it would makes Indiana more appealing to business and will bring jobs to the state.


    Tim Kilbourne, a plow truck mechanic for the city of Indianapolis, said he and other workers would keep coming to the Statehouse until legislators kill the bill.


    "All these bills here is to kill the worker," he said.


    House Minority Leader B. Patrick Bauer, D-South Bend, “has taken a page out of the Wisconsin Senate playbook apparently” by keeping his caucus in hiding, Bosma said. “They are shirking the job that they were hired to do.”


    In Wisconsin, Senate Democrats have fled to Illinois to deny Republicans the quorum they need to pass legislation limiting collective bargaining for many public employees.


    Asked at what point he would call in the Indiana State Police to attempt to round up the Democrats, Bosma said: “We’ll see how the day goes.”


    Bosma said he spoke to Daniels and said the governor is “very supportive of our position to come in and try to do our work. He was not pleased that the Democrats weren’t here to do their work. And like me is just waiting to see how the course of the day proceeds.”


    Austin told reporters that “it doesn’t matter where they (Democrats) are at this point. What matters is that they’re trying to figure out a way to save the state from this radical agenda.”


    Asked if they were in the state, Austin said only: “They’re working hard.”


    Indiana Democratic Party Chairman Dan Parker said it’s not important where the Democrat lawmakers are.


    “This is a principled fight,” Parker said.


    What’s important, he said, is that they are standing up to an agenda they believe will cut wages for Indiana workers, both in unions and those who do not belong to unions. They’ll return, he said, when they drop the bills Democrats see as an “assault on the middle class.”


    Bosma, though, said Republicans are “counting on common sense and a sense of responsibility to prevail and that they would get back here and do the job that they were elected to do."


    The last time a prolonged walk-out happened in the Indiana legislature was in the mid-1990s, when Republicans were in control and tried to draw new legislative district maps, eliminating a district that likely would have been a Democrat one, in the middle of the decade. Democrats won that standoff, staying away several days until Republicans dropped the plan.

    Today, the union members who have filled the Statehouse — an estimated 4,000 according to the Indiana State Police — held a rally, chanting such things as “Ditch Mitch” and “Save Our Families,” which he must have heard as he worked in his nearby Statehouse office.


    Union supporters say the bill which has sparked the protests, House Bill 1468 such a measure would weaken bargaining power because companies under collective bargaining agreements would no longer have to hire union members. Supporters, including the state's Chamber of Commerce, say it would makes Indiana more appealing to business and will bring jobs to the state.


    Tim Kilbourne, a plow truck mechanic for the city of Indianapolis, said he and other workers would keep coming to the Statehouse until legislators kill the bill.


    "All these bills here is to kill the worker," he said.


    House Minority Leader B. Patrick Bauer, D-South Bend, “has taken a page out of the Wisconsin Senate playbook apparently” by keeping his caucus in hiding, Bosma said. “They are shirking the job that they were hired to do.”


    In Wisconsin, Senate Democrats have fled to Illinois to deny Republicans the quorum they need to pass legislation limiting collective bargaining for many public employees.


    Asked at what point he would call in the Indiana State Police to attempt to round up the Democrats, Bosma said: “We’ll see how the day goes.”


    Bosma said he spoke to Daniels and said the governor is “very supportive of our position to come in and try to do our work. He was not pleased that the Democrats weren’t here to do their work. And like me is just waiting to see how the course of the day proceeds.”


    Austin told reporters that “it doesn’t matter where they (Democrats) are at this point. What matters is that they’re trying to figure out a way to save the state from this radical agenda.”


    Asked if they were in the state, Austin said only: “They’re working hard.”


    Indiana Democratic Party Chairman Dan Parker said it’s not important where the Democrat lawmakers are.


    “This is a principled fight,” Parker said.


    What’s important, he said, is that they are standing up to an agenda they believe will cut wages for Indiana workers, both in unions and those who do not belong to unions. They’ll return, he said, when they drop the bills Democrats see as an “assault on the middle class.”


    Bosma, though, said Republicans are “counting on common sense and a sense of responsibility to prevail and that they would get back here and do the job that they were elected to do."


    The last time a prolonged walk-out happened in the Indiana legislature was in the mid-1990s, when Republicans were in control and tried to draw new legislative district maps, eliminating a district that likely would have been a Democrat one, in the middle of the decade. Democrats won that standoff, staying away several days until Republicans dropped the plan.

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    I really don't understand the entire reasons why Democrats are temporarily fleeing states(sans excuses) but perception is reality. Democrats are helping confirm the stereotype(right or wrong) of being weak.

    Personally, I'd be pissed if I voted for these Democrats and they fled the state instead of staying there to fight for their constituents. Please, take a stand already.

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    I see this in the same vein of the Republican filibusters of many of Obama's proposals. Since they dont have the ability to stop it any other way they stop it this way. That doesnt make it ok, but it is realistically their only way to prevent what they (and the constituents that voted for them) dont want done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I see this in the same vein of the Republican filibusters of many of Obama's proposals. Since they dont have the ability to stop it any other way they stop it this way. That doesnt make it ok, but it is realistically their only way to prevent what they (and the constituents that voted for them) dont want done.
    Thing is they are not going to stop it from getting done in either case. They are just making themselves look horrible in the eyes of the constituents. I hope to see them brought back in handcuffs if need be. Again Democrats shirking their responsibility of representing their constituents. Elections have consequences even Obama himself said it though doesn't look like these cowards are willing to even stay and fight for what they believe in. What a truly cowardly act by those here in Indiana and those in WI.


    Edit.

    This is nothing like the Republicans or Democrat filibusters. Neither party nationally have left Washington instead of voting on a bill. Not even during the vote on health care did they GOP walk out of the house. So I disagree this is nothing like the filibusters. Its just cowardly Democrats unwilling to face that they lost complete control of state government to the Republicans.
    Last edited by hoosiercubsfan; 02-22-2011 at 04:33 PM.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    Thing is they are not going to stop it from getting done in either case. They are just making themselves look horrible in the eyes of the constituents. I hope to see them brought back in handcuffs if need be. Again Democrats shirking their responsibility of representing their constituents. Elections have consequences even Obama himself said it though doesn't look like these cowards are willing to even stay and fight for what they believe in. What a truly cowardly act by those here in Indiana and those in WI.


    Edit.

    This is nothing like the Republicans or Democrat filibusters. Neither party nationally have left Washington instead of voting on a bill. Not even during the vote on health care did they GOP walk out of the house. So I disagree this is nothing like the filibusters. Its just cowardly Democrats unwilling to face that they lost complete control of state government to the Republicans.
    This is pretty much how I feel on this vs fillibusters.

    If they want to attempt to fillibuster it, go ahead, but this is wrong to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    Thing is they are not going to stop it from getting done in either case. They are just making themselves look horrible in the eyes of the constituents. I hope to see them brought back in handcuffs if need be. Again Democrats shirking their responsibility of representing their constituents. Elections have consequences even Obama himself said it though doesn't look like these cowards are willing to even stay and fight for what they believe in. What a truly cowardly act by those here in Indiana and those in WI.


    Edit.

    This is nothing like the Republicans or Democrat filibusters. Neither party nationally have left Washington instead of voting on a bill. Not even during the vote on health care did they GOP walk out of the house. So I disagree this is nothing like the filibusters. Its just cowardly Democrats unwilling to face that they lost complete control of state government to the Republicans.
    Do they have the right to filibuster in the Statehouse? If they do, and it works like it works in the US Senate, you are absolutely right. If they don't, and this is the only way they have of slowing it down, or stopping it, which is the case in WI, then you are wrong. On all counts.

    If this is in fact, the only way for them to slow it down or stop it, two things, one, your desire for them to be brought back in handcuffs won't happen, because they won't be in the state. Secondly, you don't like them, so in your eyes they will look bad, but, for those people who voted for them and don't like the bill, if this is the only way to stop it, they will look good. It kind of depends on what you were rooting for to begin with.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    Do they have the right to filibuster in the Statehouse? If they do, and it works like it works in the US Senate, you are absolutely right. If they don't, and this is the only way they have of slowing it down, or stopping it, which is the case in WI, then you are wrong. On all counts.

    If this is in fact, the only way for them to slow it down or stop it, two things, one, your desire for them to be brought back in handcuffs won't happen, because they won't be in the state. Secondly, you don't like them, so in your eyes they will look bad, but, for those people who voted for them and don't like the bill, if this is the only way to stop it, they will look good. It kind of depends on what you were rooting for to begin with.
    Honestly I don't know the filibuster rules for the Indiana house or Senate. I don't see this stopping either bill in IN or WI only prolonging the inevitable passage of each bill. In both states you have Republican majorities in both houses and governor's.

    Again I feel this is only slowing not stopping either bill so its a waste of time and tax payer money. Your right they won't be brought back in handcuffs though i still would enjoy the sight. I would feel the same way for the Republicans if they pulled this stunt but thus far its only been Democrats each and every time be it Texas, Wisconsin, or now here in Indiana. And I disagree completely I believe this will greatly harm those Democrats that aren't from the traditionally largely Democratic urban areas of Indiana. Come 2012 this is only more firepower to use against those that are up for reelection. This isn't a good first step in trying to win back the majorities in either house for them.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    Honestly I don't know the filibuster rules for the Indiana house or Senate. I don't see this stopping either bill in IN or WI only prolonging the inevitable passage of each bill. In both states you have Republican majorities in both houses and governor's.

    Again I feel this is only slowing not stopping either bill so its a waste of time and tax payer money. Your right they won't be brought back in handcuffs though i still would enjoy the sight. I would feel the same way for the Republicans if they pulled this stunt but thus far its only been Democrats each and every time be it Texas, Wisconsin, or now here in Indiana. And I disagree completely I believe this will greatly harm those Democrats that aren't from the traditionally largely Democratic urban areas of Indiana. Come 2012 this is only more firepower to use against those that are up for reelection. This isn't a good first step in trying to win back the majorities in either house for them.
    I can tell you for a fact, that the Democratic Party has been energized by this the same way that the Republican Party was energized by the Tea Party. I can also tell you for a fact that the Democratic Party felt the same way you do about this towards the Tea Party. No predictions, but I have seen this movie before.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    I can tell you for a fact, that the Democratic Party has been energized by this the same way that the Republican Party was energized by the Tea Party. I can also tell you for a fact that the Democratic Party felt the same way you do about this towards the Tea Party. No predictions, but I have seen this movie before.
    How has the Democratic Party been energized? Is this something you just feel or is there facts to back this up? Serious questions since I haven't heard, seen, nor read anything about this happening. These will only be national stories until the real story of budget reconciliation goes on in Washington. There will be the true battle lines between the Democrats and the Republicans.

    And how do the Democrats feel the same way I do about this? How do they feel outright anger that the members of the house of my state are to chicken **** to vote and run with their tale between their legs to another state. How can any Democrat have this anger at the tea party when they aren't shirking their responsibilities while protesting?


    EDIT

    Again I want anyone to please explain to me why elections only have consequences when Democrats are in control? But when the Republicans take control their agenda isn't good enough and have to be stopped at all costs. That the Democrats won't so much as allow a vote on a bill they don't like. Sure didn't see the Republicans running out of Washington during the bills they didn't like that got passed in the past two years. Nor do I ever remember hearing about Republicans running out of a statehouse because a Democratic controlled house was passing a bill they don't agree with. So tell me anyone how this is anything more than democrats acting like spoiled brats that aren't getting there way.
    Last edited by hoosiercubsfan; 02-22-2011 at 05:55 PM.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century – that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

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    From the Indianapolis Star:

    Quote Originally Posted by Indianapolis Star
    Gov. Mitch Daniels signaled this afternoon that Republicans should to drop the right-to-work bill that has brought the Indiana House to a standstill for two days and imperiled other measures.

    Daniels told reporters this afternoon that he expects House Democrats will return to work if the bill dies. It would be unfortunate if other bills are caught up in the turmoil, he said.

    He will not send out state police to corral the Democrats, the Republican governor said.

    The Democrat minority has right to express its views, he added.

    The governor clung to his view that this is not the year to tackle right to work.
    lol nothing matters

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    The only reason this isnt like the national stage is that the Republicans could be there and still just say "we filibuster" as opposed to actually having to rally against the cause they dont believe in. In the states (Wisconsin and Indiana in this case) the Senators dont have that ability to just sit their like puppets. So for them to effectively protest, the way the Republicans didn on health insurance reform they have to physically leave the state. For better for for worse, that is the only option they have to filibuster. I dont know if i support their actions but given their choices they are doing what they (and the people who voted for them) would support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan View Post
    How has the Democratic Party been energized? Is this something you just feel or is there facts to back this up? Serious questions since I haven't heard, seen, nor read anything about this happening. These will only be national stories until the real story of budget reconciliation goes on in Washington. There will be the true battle lines between the Democrats and the Republicans.

    And how do the Democrats feel the same way I do about this? How do they feel outright anger that the members of the house of my state are to chicken **** to vote and run with their tale between their legs to another state. How can any Democrat have this anger at the tea party when they aren't shirking their responsibilities while protesting?


    EDIT

    Again I want anyone to please explain to me why elections only have consequences when Democrats are in control? But when the Republicans take control their agenda isn't good enough and have to be stopped at all costs. That the Democrats won't so much as allow a vote on a bill they don't like. Sure didn't see the Republicans running out of Washington during the bills they didn't like that got passed in the past two years. Nor do I ever remember hearing about Republicans running out of a statehouse because a Democratic controlled house was passing a bill they don't agree with. So tell me anyone how this is anything more than democrats acting like spoiled brats that aren't getting there way.
    First, to your question about measurements. Well, a good easy source to see is the demonstrations in WI in and of themselves. Second, although I can't source it, I did hear that contributions were up. Obviously, the only metric that counts is the election, but, if I had told you that was the only measurement in 2009 about Republicans, would you have believed me?

    Of course elections have consequences. That is not the issue here, unless, you are going to say that the Republicans in the Senate are not following that idea with all of the appointments to non confrontational positions that they have held up. This to me, if there is no instrument like the filibuster in the US Senate, is using the tools they have. For the life of me, I just don't remember you clamoring for more cooperation in the Senate in 2009/10.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

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    Party of no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Party of no?
    cute
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    Party of no?
    More like the party of woe

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