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  1. #1
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    Iraqi: I'm proud my WMD lies led to war in Iraq

    LONDON – An Iraqi man whose testimony the United States used as a key evidence to build a case for war in Iraq says he is proud that he lied about his country developing mobile biological warfare labs.

    The Guardian newspaper published an interview Wednesday with Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi, who has been identified as the informer called "Curveball," whose claims about weapon labs formed part of then-U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell's speech to the U.N. Security Council in 2003, shortly before the war began.

    The Guardian quoted al-Janabi as saying: "I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime. I and my sons are proud of that."

    Although some intelligence agents were skeptical of Curveball's story, the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee reported in 2004 that the Central Intelligence Agency "withheld important information about Curveball's reliability" from analysts dealing with the case.

    The Guardian interviewed al-Janabi in Karlsruhe, Germany in a mixture of Arabic and German. The U.S. Senate panel's report said Curveball spoke in English and Arabic when he was interrogated by intelligence officers.

    Asked about his feeling's about the deaths and destruction during the war and in the years following, The Guardian said al-Janabi said there was no other way.

    "I tell you something when I hear anybody not just in Iraq but in any war (is) killed, I am very sad. But give me another solution. Can you give me another solution?" the newspaper quoted him as saying.

    "Saddam did not (allow) freedom in our land," the Iraqi said. "There are no other political parties. You have to believe what Saddam says, and do what Saddam wants. And I don't accept that. I have to do something for my country. So I did this and I am satisfied, because there is no dictator in Iraq any more."
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110216/...iraq_curveball

    Don't ask don't tell is back, not for gays in the military, Obama's policy for questions about Libya - Jay Leno

  2. #2
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    The German intelligence services never trusted this guy, thinking he was a drunken pathological liar. But he functioned as a useful tool for neocons who had been scrabbling for an excuse to invade Iraq for over a decade.
    …authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and—to top it all off—a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic. These seven deadly shortfalls of authoritarian thinking eminently qualify them to follow a would-be dictator.

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    I might have done the same thing in his shoes. Sadamn was an awful opressor for his people.

    He doesnt warrant our criticsm just those who didnt factcheck well enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    I might have done the same thing in his shoes. Sadamn was an awful opressor for his people.

    He doesnt warrant our criticsm just those who didnt factcheck well enough
    People who lie deserve just as much criticism as those who dont accurately fact check. I get what you are saying, but if you lie in court and dont get found out for three years, then all of a sudden do, you cant just say "well no one caught me then". Lying is lying is lying, any way you slice it. Even for the noblest intentions it is still lying. Whether you can justify it is irrelevant really, it is still lying.
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    we all know saddam was a bastard, but as phil donahue said "he was our bastard". we put this guy into power. we lost a lot of american lives because of a lie. personally, i think bush held a personal grudge towards him, but was it worth it? 8 years, thousands of deaths and billions of dollars later, i dont think so, but that is my opinion.

    Don't ask don't tell is back, not for gays in the military, Obama's policy for questions about Libya - Jay Leno

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    I gotta tell you guys, they did have WMDs. We gave them to them. Where they are now, who knows. But when you give someone something, and then ask them what they did with it, you know they did something with it.

    The question we should be asking is, where did they go?

    I am not talking about whether the war was justified. We knew many of the chemical weapons we had given him had lived beyond their normal usable lifespan. And even Rummy is saying Bush wanted to invade Iraq before Afghanistan! So the premise used for war is very questionable.

    All I am saying is getting accountability for what we know we gave them seems on its own merit to be a ****ing good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    I gotta tell you guys, they did have WMDs. We gave them to them. Where they are now, who knows. But when you give someone something, and then ask them what they did with it, you know they did something with it.

    The question we should be asking is, where did they go?

    I am not talking about whether the war was justified. We knew many of the chemical weapons we had given him had lived beyond their normal usable lifespan. And even Rummy is saying Bush wanted to invade Iraq before Afghanistan! So the premise used for war is very questionable.

    All I am saying is getting accountability for what we know we gave them seems on its own merit to be a ****ing good idea.
    actually, I don't know how much I believe this, but according to some people I knew very well in the military who are pretty high ranked, they said irag did have wmd's and that france actually sold them to iraq, but since the U.S. is technically allies with france, it wasn't reported for obvious reasons. pretty wild if it has any truth to it.

    Don't ask don't tell is back, not for gays in the military, Obama's policy for questions about Libya - Jay Leno

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    Quote Originally Posted by D Roses Bulls View Post
    actually, I don't know how much I believe this, but according to some people I knew very well in the military who are pretty high ranked, they said irag did have wmd's and that france actually sold them to iraq, but since the U.S. is technically allies with france, it wasn't reported for obvious reasons. pretty wild if it has any truth to it.
    I was there and I actually heard the same thing in May 2003 from a guy I was in the same unit with and who was on a search team.

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    Did we give them the weapons to fight Iran? Then Saddam governed the way he wanted, not the way we wanted and refused to cut us a deal on oil so he went from friend/CIA Operative to enemy...

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    It was a good lie for Iraq, and the future of it. But no matter what happened in a country thousands and thousands of miles away, it ****ed us hard at home... And that for me was still not enough to go into a country, pour all our resources into it, and suffer because of it economically..

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERMANIA View Post
    It was a good lie for Iraq,
    yeah.......great: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/


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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Did we give them the weapons to fight Iran? Then Saddam governed the way he wanted, not the way we wanted and refused to cut us a deal on oil so he went from friend/CIA Operative to enemy...
    I wonder which president will have to clean up the mess from when we sided with the dictators in my thread (posted about a week or two ago). When your dad (Bush I) helped create the problem and then you attempt to fix his screw ups i dont know if i can give him or his people (ironically Rumsfeld was involved) any credit.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I am no Warhawk, I hated this war, but the only good that came out of all the tragic deaths was that they have a chance to start from scratch, create a democracy in the middle east like Turkey and Israel.. If I were Iraqi, looking at it from their POV, I'd rather start from scratch and make a new democratic government than live under Saddam, so I understand, and if I were Iraqi, would be proud of that lie too

    But I am not an Iraqi, I am an American citizen, and the fact that we got fooled by this guy to go in and take out an entire government with our money angers me.. You can all you want, its true

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    People who lie deserve just as much criticism as those who dont accurately fact check. I get what you are saying, but if you lie in court and dont get found out for three years, then all of a sudden do, you cant just say "well no one caught me then". Lying is lying is lying, any way you slice it. Even for the noblest intentions it is still lying. Whether you can justify it is irrelevant really, it is still lying.
    Well from understanding he didnt commit perjury (which is somewhat worse) and yeah its a bad thing lying to intelligence and taking part in starting a war but he obviously felt it was for the greater good for his people. Not saying its right necessarily but I understand his point of view living under Sadam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    I gotta tell you guys, they did have WMDs. We gave them to them. Where they are now, who knows. But when you give someone something, and then ask them what they did with it, you know they did something with it.

    The question we should be asking is, where did they go?

    I am not talking about whether the war was justified. We knew many of the chemical weapons we had given him had lived beyond their normal usable lifespan. And even Rummy is saying Bush wanted to invade Iraq before Afghanistan! So the premise used for war is very questionable.

    All I am saying is getting accountability for what we know we gave them seems on its own merit to be a ****ing good idea.
    I got to agree with you that yes, at some point in the past they had chemical weapons. There is absolutely zero controversy over that point. The whole world acknowledged that the Iraqi government used chemical weapons on the Kurds. . . in 1988.

    The relevant question is whether they had WMDs in 2002. Whether or not there was a "smoking gun" that could become a "mushroom cloud" in 2002 or not. There is no credible evidence now, nor has there ever been that they had WMDs then.

    Curveball, however, was talking about an active nuclear program. His incredible lies were the basis of the talking points used by Bush administration hacks to lie us into a war we never should have entered. There is no excuse for that behavior on the basis of Iraq having WMDs 25 years before, and no excuse for it based on the lies of Curveball.

    As for where those WMDs went, the only supplies of them ever discovered by anyone were destroyed by UN weapons inspectors in the mid-90's. The rest existed only in the heads of those looking for an excuse to invade, or to convince others to invade. There is no mystery here except why we believed these ridiculous lies.
    Last edited by Labgrownmangoat; 02-17-2011 at 10:07 AM.
    …authoritarian followers drive through life under the influence of impaired thinking a lot more than most people do, exhibiting sloppy reasoning, highly compartmentalized beliefs, double standards, hypocrisy, self-blindness, a profound ethnocentrism, and—to top it all off—a ferocious dogmatism that makes it unlikely anyone could ever change their minds with evidence or logic. These seven deadly shortfalls of authoritarian thinking eminently qualify them to follow a would-be dictator.

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