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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    I wouldn't consider shifting a distraction either. But I wouldn't rule out the possibility that some will still, say, use a cell phone while driving stick.

    Manual transmissions sort of self-select better drivers. If everyone was forced to drive manual, there would be some godawful manual-transmission drivers. But everyone is not forced to drive manual, so the godawful drivers drive automatic because it's easier. In other words, drivers who drive stick aren't better drivers because they drive stick; they drive stick because they are better drivers. Forcing everyone to drive stick would just force the godawful drivers to take on a more difficult task. And that's a very bad idea.
    Yes, but if you weeded out the god awful drivers before they ever got their license by requiring being able to drive a stick, wouldn't that make it worth it? They wouldn't have to still drive one after they got their license.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymfan87 View Post
    Yes, but if you weeded out the god awful drivers before they ever got their license, wouldn't that make it worth it?
    I don't know. Wouldn't they just drive illegally then? I'd rather just improve drivers as a whole than keep a bunch off the road. I mean, driving drunk is illegal but people do it all the damn time. Eight-, nine-, ten-time offenders. If getting your license is too hard, people will just drive illegally, i.e., with no training or certification.

    What would solve all this is ... high speed rail and mass transportation! Yay!

  3. #33
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    Just as a throwback to my earlier point, does anything think that we actually speak English in this country? Because if you do please tell me why you think the language we speak is the same as the one they speak in England?
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    I don't know. Wouldn't they just drive illegally then? I'd rather just improve drivers as a whole than keep a bunch off the road. I mean, driving drunk is illegal but people do it all the damn time. Eight-, nine-, ten-time offenders. If getting your license is too hard, people will just drive illegally, i.e., with no training or certification.

    What would solve all this is ... high speed rail and mass transportation! Yay!
    The real issue here is that people don't go to jail for extremely long periods of time for repeated drunken driving offenses. But that's for another discussion.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Just as a throwback to my earlier point, does anything think that we actually speak English in this country? Because if you do please tell me why you think the language we speak is the same as the one they speak in England?
    Yes, we speak English.

    That's like arguing that Mexicans don't speak Spanish.

    Actually, funny thing, no one in Spain speaks "Spanish." They call it Castellano there. In Mexico, they call it "Espanol" and here we call it "Spanish."

    Along the same lines, we call our language "English." It's not exactly the same as what they speak in England, but they are mutually intelligible. If you want to start differentiating between the two, someone has already done that: we speak "American English" and they speak "British English." The Irish speak "Hiberno-English." But everyone calls it "English" for shorthand and all those dialects are mutually intelligible, so "English" is a perfectly accurate name.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymfan87 View Post
    The real issue here is that people don't go to jail for extremely long periods of time for repeated drunken driving offenses. But that's for another discussion.
    There we go. Some common ground.

    Let out the guys who were slinging drugs to make a quick buck and put in the guys who are risking lives by driving drunk every other day.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymfan87 View Post
    Shifting gears is basically subconscious after doing it for a little while, but it doesn't allow you to use a phone in case a sudden situation arises where you need to shift gears. I wouldn't consider shifting a distraction at all.
    You can still use a phone while driving stick...bluetooth.

    Still, I stand by what I said (although an article I just read said a study found that automatic transmissions are no safer nor are they more dangerous than manual transmissions with regards to reaction time to hazards...so that said, the point about manual transmission familiiarity being a requirement to drive is moot).


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo0775 View Post
    You can still use a phone while driving stick...bluetooth.

    Still, I stand by what I said (although an article I just read said a study found that automatic transmissions are no safer nor are they more dangerous than manual transmissions with regards to reaction time to hazards...so that said, the point about manual transmission familiiarity being a requirement to drive is moot).
    Well yeah, but driving with a hands free device is definitely an upgrade over having one hand on the phone up against your ear. And I don't see what a study about reaction time to hazards has to do with the transmission discussion--there is more to driving than just reacting to hazards.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    Yes, we speak English.

    That's like arguing that Mexicans don't speak Spanish.

    Actually, funny thing, no one in Spain speaks "Spanish." They call it Castellano there. In Mexico, they call it "Espanol" and here we call it "Spanish."

    Along the same lines, we call our language "English." It's not exactly the same as what they speak in England, but they are mutually intelligible. If you want to start differentiating between the two, someone has already done that: we speak "American English" and they speak "British English." The Irish speak "Hiberno-English." But everyone calls it "English" for shorthand and all those dialects are mutually intelligible, so "English" is a perfectly accurate name.
    But calling the language "English" and it being "English" are two entirely separate things. For all intents and purposes we speak an entirely different language and more importantly dialect than English people.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    But calling the language "English" and it being "English" are two entirely separate things. For all intents and purposes we speak an entirely different language and more importantly dialect than English people.
    It is "English." It's a language that came from England. And we call it "English."

    The two are not "entirely different languages." I've lived in the UK and in Ireland, and I never had a problem. The accents may be difficult now and then, but the language rarely is. Slang and some more recent nouns, yeah, but nothing that different.

    I mean, I have just as difficult of a time in the South. Deep south Louisiana? I have no clue what the hell those people are saying. But they are still speaking "English" and the language they're speaking is "English" ("of England," "resembling England," etc.).

    I don't mean to get all contentious here, but I'm just not following your point here.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymfan87 View Post
    Well yeah, but driving with a hands free device is definitely an upgrade over having one hand on the phone up against your ear. And I don't see what a study about reaction time to hazards has to do with the transmission discussion--there is more to driving than just reacting to hazards.
    What really matters more than being able to avoid hazards/being a hazard?

    You wanted them to drive stick to weed out god awful drivers. That doesn't weed out god awful drivers but rather those that aren't strong manual drivers. What else is a "god awful driver" but someone who is a hazard/can't avoid hazards?


  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by debo0775 View Post
    What really matters more than being able to avoid hazards/being a hazard?

    You wanted them to drive stick to weed out god awful drivers. That doesn't weed out god awful drivers but rather those that aren't strong manual drivers. What else is a "god awful driver" but someone who is a hazard/can't avoid hazards?
    Most of the people who I consider god awful drivers are the ones not paying attention, not obeying the rules of the road, or both. I think if more people knew how to drive stick, more people would buy stick cars, and there would be more people on the road paying attention. It would also add a degree of difficulty to the driving exams that are currently far too easy. Basically, that's what I'm getting at: driving exams are far too easy, and making people drive a vehicle with a manual transmission is how I would make it more difficult.
    Last edited by Nymfan87; 02-17-2011 at 11:08 AM.

  13. #43
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    Not if a significant amount of people in a district/county/state speak a different language. If, say, 20% speak spanish then a spanish form should be available. Governments are meant to serve the people.

    136-206, 66% CMP, 1,517 Yds, 7.36 Avg, 9 TD, 4 INTs, 60.9 QBR, 94.3 RTG

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  14. #44
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    Yes, I can't tell you how many time I have had to wait hours in line at the DPS, waiting for Mexicans to comprehend simple registry questions while getting their license


    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    For all intents and purposes we speak an entirely different language and more importantly dialect than English people.
    We speak a slightly different dialect, we do not speak a different language

    I'm not even sure what you even mean by this sentence, why "more importantly" a dialect? A dialect far less encompassing that a language. Seems like you have an inaccurate definition of what a language is
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    It is "English." It's a language that came from England. And we call it "English."

    The two are not "entirely different languages." I've lived in the UK and in Ireland, and I never had a problem. The accents may be difficult now and then, but the language rarely is. Slang and some more recent nouns, yeah, but nothing that different.

    I mean, I have just as difficult of a time in the South. Deep south Louisiana? I have no clue what the hell those people are saying. But they are still speaking "English" and the language they're speaking is "English" ("of England," "resembling England," etc.).

    I don't mean to get all contentious here, but I'm just not following your point here.
    The next time you go into a coffee shop and ask for bangers and mashed, here in America, let me know what you get?

    Seriously, we do speak a series of unique English dialects, but travel around the UK, or for that matter, just around England, and you and I would agree that they speak a spectacular variety of dialect. Apples and pears means a very non fruit thing when speaking Cockney slang than it does at our local supermarket.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

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