Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    65,354
    vCash
    1500
    This is a difficult question where taste and free speech need to have a commonality.

    States ban you from having the ****** (N-word) in your license plate because it is overly offensive to many people. You cant have words like "wetback", ****** (F-word), or really any word that can be abbreviated letter-word.

    This seems to fall in the same line of that trend.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    6,183
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy West View Post
    Well there is not a true comparison to be made. The only thing I could point out was this slaughter was known as a huge thing and the man was celebrated in the Klan. Byrd then made a choice to become part of an organization that did celebrate those acts by becoming a member and at some point a leader.

    Now when I joined the service I made a choice to join an organization responsible for killing some folks prior to my enlistment. I do not however equate the USMC and the KKK as the same type of organizations.

    I do not like either man honestly, what they did and at what points in their lives they did it do not make a huge difference to me.

    I could think of a couple of things worse than killing troops that surrendered. Killing civilians and children who want or have no part in the conflict comes to mind as one.......but just if you wanted a one word answer it would be no.

    If I remember correctly you were supposed to treat surrendering troops just like fellow soldiers. Provide medical attention, water or whatever else was needed. I was never really around many troops that had surrendered so I don't know how they were really treated........I am sure they were not slaughtered though, if so we would have heard much more about it I am sure.
    First, I did not mean to equate the USMC with the KKK, my intention was to draw upon your expertise about how troops who surrender are supposed to be treated, and what is completely unacceptable, and in fact, criminal. If I did not make that clear, I offer my complete apology. The slaughter of the troops took place while he was a general of the Confederacy preceding his creation of the KKK. So, what I was comparing was what a trained uniformed fighting force is doing, by order of its commanding general, not what a group of terrorists were doing. Why you keep bringing it back to the KKK is only because you are trying to make an unrelated point, while not addressing the question.

    Second, what I was trying to point out is what Catholics show as a separation of mortal and venial sins. While both are sins, they are not the same thing and do not compare. Senator Byrd certainly committed what I consider a venial sin. As such, I consider myself capable and given his stated repentance for that sin, required to forgive it. Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest committed what I consider a mortal sin, and as such, no such forgiveness from me. You keep comparing the two, while in fact, the magnitude of what they actually did, was gigantically different.

    It would be the same as saying (and I am going to ask you to pick your own metaphor, because argument my metaphor is always pointless) a 5'8" man who is 10 lbs overweight and a 5'8" man who is 250 lbs overweight are the same because they are both overweight.

    Finally, Byrd did by actual work, over a lifetime, try to overcome his bad decision. Forrest did no such thing. So, once again, I point out, while your statement of my past is accurate, your comparison, in my opinion, makes a false comparison.
    Last edited by cabernetluver; 02-11-2011 at 04:53 PM.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the smog meets the shore
    Posts
    30,935
    vCash
    1500
    Random thought: I once heard the NRA was established in the same year that the KKK was outlawed as a terrorist organization.....

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NOR CAL
    Posts
    8,770
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    First, I did not mean to equate the USMC with the KKK, my intention was to draw upon your expertise about how troops who surrender are supposed to be treated, and what is completely unacceptable, and in fact, criminal. If I did not make that clear, I offer my complete apology. The slaughter of the troops took place while he was a general of the Confederacy preceding his creation of the KKK. So, what I was comparing was what a trained uniformed fighting force is doing, by order of its commanding general, not what a group of terrorists were doing. Why you keep bringing it back to the KKK is only because you are trying to make an unrelated point, while not addressing the question.

    Second, what I was trying to point out is what Catholics show as a separation of mortal and venial sins. While both are sins, they are not the same thing and do not compare. Senator Byrd certainly committed what I consider a venial sin. As such, I consider myself capable and given his stated repentance for that sin, required to forgive it. Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest committed what I consider a mortal sin, and as such, no such forgiveness from me. You keep comparing the two, while in fact, the magnitude of what they actually did, was gigantically different.

    It would be the same as saying (and I am going to ask you to pick your own metaphor, because argument my metaphor is always pointless) a 5'8" man who is 10 lbs overweight and a 5'8" man who is 250 lbs overweight are the same because they are both overweight.

    Finally, Byrd did by actual work, over a lifetime, try to overcome his bad decision. Forrest did no such thing. So, once again, I point out, while your statement of my past is accurate, your comparison, in my opinion, makes a false comparison.
    You did not make the comparison Cab I did so no worries on that point. Second I am not defending or even really trying to argue a point. I brought up what I thought would be a valid point initially. You do not agree and feel differently about the whole situation which is understandable and really A o.k. in my book.

    As far as a commander of the South goes he obviously treated folks who had surrendered poorly. I would also like to point out that at that particular time war and the civil war in general were much different than the way folks were treated in WWI and WWII. Basically a poorly trained group of Southerners with no real training or guidelines is a whole bunch different than a current Army Brigade would operate and guidelines to operate under.

    I guess I am equating Bedford with a terrorist more than a commander of US forces for the most part. Even though he has an army or troops they are not troops in the real sense of the word.

    I also realize Byrd has never lynched or killed anyone as far as I know so he and Bedford are different in that sense. What Byrd did do is join an organization that did do those types of things, knowing full well that those types of things were done. So he was ok with the founders of the organization he joined lynching and killing he just did not participate. He made a choice to join a terrorist organization, so even if he did not kill or terrorize blacks he did not have a huge problem with folks that did.

    As far as not addressing the question I am not sure what I missed?? I believe I had said if you needed a one word answer it would have been no.

    While I understand you want to point out a difference in his command I am not sure there was a huge difference in what he did as a Southern General and what he did as leader of the KKK. I believe he probably did not have much oversight as leader of the Southern forces and basically no one to answer to as leader of the KKK.
    Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government, owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to dissolve the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.-Theodore Roosevelt


    There's no country on Earth that would tolerate missiles raining down on its citizens from outside its borders.
    -Barack "drone" Obama, 11/18/2012

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    a cardbroad box under the overpass
    Posts
    3,411
    vCash
    1500
    What the hell. Let them have it. I just find it funny (in a bad way) that those who buy this plate are willing to attack Obama's preacher for damning ( in words not deeds) america, while they honor someone who actions damn america to racial tensions for decades to come. I will never understand the love affair with the old south. I can see honoring the soldiers who died, but not the way of life or mindset that led to the conflict or after.

    For me, the connection to the KKK is the kiss of death as someone with connection to the Nazis Party is in Germany. And add war crimes to the mix. I just shake my head on how people can overlook things like that while praising the american way of life.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-11-2011 at 09:21 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Shambala
    Posts
    43,940
    vCash
    1500
    Well Imo is important that these type of persons are remembered, so younger people ask who they were and someone answers so they can see why they were wrong.
    This way its easier that same mistakes are not to be made again.
    ]

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    36,393
    vCash
    500
    My Country Tis of Thee
    Sweet Land of Bigotry
    Of Thee I Plea:
    Land where de-cency died
    Land of ig-norant lies
    From every mountainside,
    Let logic ring!
    How I Feel reading Cliff Stein's Contracts:



  8. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Limestone, TN
    Posts
    1,773
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Random thought: I once heard the NRA was established in the same year that the KKK was outlawed as a terrorist organization.....
    It was. That doesn't mean anything though. Michael Moore did make that connection in Bowling for Columbine. It really is unrelated.

    The NRA was founded in New York. The first president was Gen. Burnside, the one who sideburns were named after and the Union general from the Civil War.

    Do you know what president of the US made the Klan illegal? General Grant. He became the 8th NRA President.

    General Philip Sheridan of the Union also became the ninth NRA President.

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the smog meets the shore
    Posts
    30,935
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by debo0775 View Post
    My Country Tis of Thee
    Sweet Land of Bigotry
    Of Thee I Plea:
    Land where de-cency died
    Land of ig-norant lies
    From every mountainside,
    Let logic ring!
    Nice.

    Ever hear George Carlin's "o Beautiful"?

    “Oh Beautiful for smoggy skies, insecticided grain,
    For strip-mined mountain's majesty above the asphalt plain.
    America, America, man sheds his waste on thee,
    And hides the pines with billboard signs, from sea to oily sea.”

    Quote Originally Posted by utahjazzno12fan View Post
    It was. That doesn't mean anything though. Michael Moore did make that connection in Bowling for Columbine. It really is unrelated.

    The NRA was founded in New York. The first president was Gen. Burnside, the one who sideburns were named after and the Union general from the Civil War.

    Do you know what president of the US made the Klan illegal? General Grant. He became the 8th NRA President.

    General Philip Sheridan of the Union also became the ninth NRA President.
    Ah....just another one of those coincidences I keep hearing about. Never really caught the relation in organizations anyway.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    5,079
    vCash
    1400
    While somewhat repulsive, this may not be a completely terrible idea.

    The plate can serve as a sort of scarlet letter. If you see someone approaching with this plate you should beware. One, the person is most likely very stupid, and two, is probably a danger to you if you don't look anything like him. It can serve as a warning to people.

    And what is with the obsession honoring the Confederacy? You lost, move on.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    indianpolis - north side
    Posts
    9,439
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Power View Post
    . . . And what is with the obsession honoring the Confederacy? You lost, move on.
    it is more a case of lost history and honoring same than simple bigotry. there are many that like the idea of being rebels without being racial haters. that does not say there is no racial component to the confederacy worship, there are more racists there than not, but not all confederacy obsessions are racist.

    my observation is most Confederates are not racist, but most racists are Confederates. poor way of saying it, but accurate.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Where the smog meets the shore
    Posts
    30,935
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by IndyFan View Post
    it is more a case of lost history and honoring same than simple bigotry. there are many that like the idea of being rebels without being racial haters. that does not say there is no racial component to the confederacy worship, there are more racists there than not, but not all confederacy obsessions are racist.

    my observation is most Confederates are not racist, but most racists are Confederates. poor way of saying it, but accurate.
    I think few even realize that slavery was only one part of the war. There was a lot more to it.....being that there were plenty of slaves in the north.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    The Land Beyond the Wall, VT
    Posts
    7,112
    vCash
    1500
    I'm all for this, but for one reason only:

    If someone is a big enough POS to want this a-hole (for a plethora of reasons), on their plate, I want to know so I can emphatically provide them with a nice, flashy one finger salute as they pass me drinking beer in their stained wife beater shirts listening to "Freebird".

    I think the world should know just who these idiots are, so we can propelry avoid them whenever possible.


    And if a state wants to celebrate NBF, it just goes to show how jacked up that state is, and again, will be avoided by me to the greatest possible extent.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    a cardbroad box under the overpass
    Posts
    3,411
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    I think few even realize that slavery was only one part of the war. There was a lot more to it.....being that there were plenty of slaves in the north.

    True in a sense, but the abolotionist (Fredrick Douglas, John Brown and Susan B. Anthony to name a few), blood fueds in state on whether to go slavery or not was a major reason for the war. If the issue wasn't slavery, I don't know if the southern states would had pulled out of the union over states rights. Was it state rights or the issue of slavery that drove us into the civil war. I admit being black may color (no pun intended) my view on it, but I can't think of no other topic back then that raised passions more then slavery, atleast on the public (workers, church goer, palor room liberal) level. The misery that slavery inflicted on blacks was well know back then and was railed against in many northern churches. They may have no great love for blacks, but they detested the practices.
    Last edited by WES445; 02-14-2011 at 10:18 AM.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    65,354
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Patsfan56 View Post
    I'm all for this, but for one reason only:

    If someone is a big enough POS to want this a-hole (for a plethora of reasons), on their plate, I want to know so I can emphatically provide them with a nice, flashy one finger salute as they pass me drinking beer in their stained wife beater shirts listening to "Freebird".

    I think the world should know just who these idiots are, so we can propelry avoid them whenever possible.


    And if a state wants to celebrate NBF, it just goes to show how jacked up that state is, and again, will be avoided by me to the greatest possible extent.
    I dont even know how Mississippi counts as part of the United States. Sometimes i really think that they are a separate country.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •