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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    I'd put a lot of money on Obama being an atheist/agnostic, but of course just recently we heard about how the presidency has "strengthened his faith." So take it for what it is.
    Was exactly my thought. Most of the religious stuff he says is to calm the fears as you said while pretty much saying nothing. Names the big Abrahamic religions, bam, bam, bam then something inclusive like we should work and come together blah blah blah. Add in a spiritual here and there and you're golden.

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  2. #32
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    It's sad that politicians have to be in the closet about NON belief.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    Why would Romney have to answer some of this stuff?

    No, I'm completely against that. Not only should religion have nothing to do with elections, it's also ridiculous to put a politician through such questioning.
    its the same as if a scientologist were running. I would want them to answer for the completely ridiculous stories that they believe to be true, despite documented history contradicting it. Much the same as I want all members of congress on the record about evolution.

    there are some things I don't care about regarding religion in politics whether it be catholic, protestant, muslim, jew, buddist, etc. But if you are going to claim to believe in one of these recently created ideologies that contradict fact and logic, you should answer for it.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
    its the same as if a scientologist were running. I would want them to answer for the completely ridiculous stories that they believe to be true, despite documented history contradicting it. Much the same as I want all members of congress on the record about evolution.

    there are some things I don't care about regarding religion in politics whether it be catholic, protestant, muslim, jew, buddist, etc. But if you are going to claim to believe in one of these recently created ideologies that contradict fact and logic, you should answer for it.
    Why the distinction between "recently-created ideologies" and the traditional religions? They all hold beliefs that to non-adherents seem bat-**** crazy.

    No, I just completely disagree with you. Religion has no place in politics, whether as a selling point or as a smear campaign.

    Going on record about evolution is a different matter. I still wouldn't make that a requirement to hold public office, but here we're at least talking science and not religion. To have faith and to deny science are not synonyms. The former is arational, the latter is irrational.

  5. #35
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    So no one who's religious, or holds religious beliefs can run for political office anymore without receiving a giant bullseye from the crowd who believes any person must be a moron for believing in a religion?

    The tolerance level here is astounding.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    So no one who's religious, or holds religious beliefs can run for political office anymore without receiving a giant bullseye from the crowd who believes any person must be a moron for believing in a religion?

    The tolerance level here is astounding.
    Can you direct this statement to someone in particular?

    I said that religion shouldn't have anything to do with it. So there would be no bullseye. Is that an untenable position?

    Also, the tolerance thing is wearing pretty thin. Can I ask you kindly to stop? It's becoming awfully inflammatory.

  7. #37
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    In American politics not having the proper religious orientation will make or break your campaign, so i dont know how the American public has shown anything but intolerance for those without religious beliefs and an over tolerance and acceptance of those who dont represent their ideals but do happen to represent their religious beliefs.
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  8. #38
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    ^ So the solution to perceived intolerance is intolerance of a different form? Especially from a crowd which (hypocritically) professes to value tolerance & diversity above almost all other values?
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    So no one who's religious, or holds religious beliefs can run for political office anymore without receiving a giant bullseye from the crowd who believes any person must be a moron for believing in a religion?

    The tolerance level here is astounding.
    Yes, Christians, who run the country in its entirety are a poor, sad victimized minority who suffer so very, very greatly from intolerance. You and Glenn Beck are the victims. Just keep repeating that mantra.

    Now please name for me all the non-Christian Presidents. Name for me all the non-Christian Senators. Governors? Not until 2007 was a member of Congress willing to "come out" as an atheist because doing so is the equivalent of political suicide due to discrimination by the religious majority.

    Please fill in the blank in this statement by President GW Bush, ""No, I don't know that ______ should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." If you guessed the poor, victimized minority known as Christians, you'd be wrong. It's atheists again.

    Sorry to bring facts into your fictional woe-is-me whining, but there is a little dose of reality regarding the real standing of Christians versus atheists in this country. There are actual targets of disapproval who feel real discrimination and hold virtually no political power due to it, but you and yours are not among them. If you'd care to continue to talk about intolerance, let's do it.
    "The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. . . Are we all in this together or are we all not?" - David Simon, creator of The Wire

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labgrownmangoat
    Sorry to bring facts into your fictional woe-is-me whining, but there is a little dose of reality regarding the real standing of Christians versus atheists in this country. There are actual targets of disapproval who feel real discrimination and hold virtually no political power due to it, but you and yours are not among them. If you'd care to continue to talk about intolerance, let's do it.
    Again, so the solution to perceived intolerance is intolerance, only it's intolerance from a crowd who professes to (hypocritically) value tolerance & diversity rather highly. Good to know.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Again, so the solution to perceived intolerance is intolerance, only it's intolerance from a crowd who professes to (hypocritically) value tolerance & diversity rather highly. Good to know.
    What intolerance are you talking about? Please provide me an iota of evidence that this "intolerance" you keep referencing exists in the real world. If you are talking about people on this board treating all religions equally, I think that word doesn't mean what you think it means.
    "The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. . . Are we all in this together or are we all not?" - David Simon, creator of The Wire

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labgrownmangoat
    Please provide me an iota of evidence that this "intolerance" you keep referencing exists in the real world.
    Christian Churches Crushed in China

    NJ Freeway Billboard Demonstrates Intolerance

    Oh and there's this one:
    Big Apple CoR (www.bigapplecor.org) is a group of like-minded member organizations from throughout the New York metro area that share a worldview grounded in reason over superstition and scientific truth over revealed truth.
    Why can't atheists just live and let live? That's what tolerant people would do. But no, they have to attack, attack, attack, and then defend said attacks behind a veil of "raising awareness." That's where they lose all credibility in my eyes. The obvious hypocrisy is a huge turn off.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Why can't atheists just live and let live? That's what tolerant people would do.
    Because the intolerant religious people won't let them. Instead they think it's their duty to ram their "morality" down our throats.


    But no, they have to attack, attack, attack, and then defend said attacks behind a veil of "raising awareness."
    Ha.

    You ever stop to think that the people of China might consider the attempt to spread Christianity behind the veil of "saving souls" as an attack on their beliefs? Or does that simply not matter to you because you think you're right?

    You ever stop to think that people grow tired of seeing billboards urging folks to remember the "reason for the season" and decided it was more than fair to put up a billboard expressing their own beliefs?

    You ever stop to think that a couple of dudes might like to get married and live in peace, but are prevented from that goal by the constant attacks from the religious lawmakers inflicting their "values" on the rest of the population?


    Of course you don't. And you have the nerve to call others intolerant. As I said before....Ha.



    That's where they lose all credibility in my eyes. The obvious hypocrisy is a huge turn off.
    Amen to that. I'd love to see you actually practice some tolerance. Then maybe you'd see some in return.

    But until the War On Atheism ends, we will continue to defend ourselves from your theologistic nonsense.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Christian Churches Crushed in China

    NJ Freeway Billboard Demonstrates Intolerance

    Oh and there's this one:


    Why can't atheists just live and let live? That's what tolerant people would do. But no, they have to attack, attack, attack, and then defend said attacks behind a veil of "raising awareness." That's where they lose all credibility in my eyes. The obvious hypocrisy is a huge turn off.
    None of these things came from people on this forum. Looks like you're having attribution problems again. I mean, you picked out evidence of a Chinese billboard. How does that make any sense?

    Get pushed against a wall in an argument and then start with the ad hominem attacks. Nothing new here.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    So no one who's religious, or holds religious beliefs can run for political office anymore without receiving a giant bullseye from the crowd who believes any person must be a moron for believing in a religion?

    The tolerance level here is astounding.
    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Christian Churches Crushed in China

    NJ Freeway Billboard Demonstrates Intolerance

    Oh and there's this one:


    Why can't atheists just live and let live? That's what tolerant people would do. But no, they have to attack, attack, attack, and then defend said attacks behind a veil of "raising awareness." That's where they lose all credibility in my eyes. The obvious hypocrisy is a huge turn off.
    The billboard in New Jersey was a response to about 100,000 roadside "Jesus is the way" "Jesus is the answer", etc. billboards. It's funny that god and christianity can be shoved down everyone's throat in this country (its on the money and our courts make people swear on a bible) and yet one atheist puts up a sign and they are demonized on every show. You need to get the intolerance issue straight.

    There is a supreme lack of information on the theist side as most have just been told what to believe since birth without a chance to accept 100 other religions or none religion. There are large groups forcing scripture in front of knowledge for the sake of their belief not losing ground.

    Now, while there are a large group of atheists who are on the offensive and spit vile, it is certainly not without cause.

    I agree with the live and let live, but it needs to apply to BOTH sides.

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