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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raidaz4Life View Post
    It sounds like this was nothing more than an attempt to clarify the translation, nothing wrong with that imo.
    What translation? The Book of Mormon was written in English, if I'm not mistaken.

    The LDS Church basically just went out and changed the very letter of manuscripts they believe were handed down by God. This is like the 8th edition.

    It's all pretty silly. If I'm Mormon, maybe I can still hang on to my beliefs after something like this (key word "maybe"), but I certainly can't be a part of a religious organization like the LDS after this.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    What translation? The Book of Mormon was written in English, if I'm not mistaken.

    The LDS Church basically just went out and changed the very letter of manuscripts they believe were handed down by God. This is like the 8th edition.

    It's all pretty silly. If I'm Mormon, maybe I can still hang on to my beliefs after something like this (key word "maybe"), but I certainly can't be a part of a religious organization like the LDS after this.
    It depends on how seriously you take the story of Mormon. Yes Joseph Smith was an American so it was written in "English", but according to what i am reading it was written and described a people that God had led to the Western Hemisphere in roughly 600BC. So likely it would not have been in English.

    I have made my thoughts known about the Bible and other ancient religious texts, but it is up to everyone else to decide if that is within the perview of their acceptance of ancient stories and tales as facts or not.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    It depends on how seriously you take the story of Mormon. Yes Joseph Smith was an American so it was written in "English", but according to what i am reading it was written and described a people that God had led to the Western Hemisphere in roughly 600BC. So likely it would not have been in English.

    I have made my thoughts known about the Bible and other ancient religious texts, but it is up to everyone else to decide if that is within the perview of their acceptance of ancient stories and tales as facts or not.
    No, that doesn't make much sense. What Joseph Smith eventually produced was an English manuscript. He may have claimed to be translating some "golden plates" or whatever, but those golden plates do not still [never did] exist. The characters of the language said to be on the golden plates are complete nonsense.

    So, in other words, there's nothing for "scholars" to translate. The earliest manuscript is in English. Unless that manuscript is wrong or is not the "word of God," then that's all there is to go on. Either way, there's no translating going on here anywhere.

  4. #19
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    The Book of Mormon is claimed to be "translated" from these golden plates that Joseph Smith found that were in a language called "reformed Egyptian." Joseph Smith claimed that the Angel that showed him where the plates are was a resurrected Native American that actually wrote the things, so you think he'd be able to get the translation right.

    Of course, none of these changes reconcile the many anachronisms in the book, but that's another issue.

    I mostly just thought it was interesting that a modern, widespread religion was actually changing their holy scriptures. There are thousands of people that actually now have an outdated Book of Mormon. That's pretty weird.
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  5. #20
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    Wasn't there a part about Joseph getting some magic glasses to help him read the translation?

    Not sure this is any crazier than Moses wondering up a mountain and coming down with some stone slabs of rules.



    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    on the crazy scale..

    All religions < Scientology

    There are more crazy religions... it's why the flying spaghetti monster thing actually works as an argument.
    RAmen my brother.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Wasn't there a part about Joseph getting some magic glasses to help him read the translation?

    Not sure this is any crazier than Moses wondering up a mountain and coming down with some stone slabs of rules.
    Moses was high off his ***. Cut the man a break.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Wasn't there a part about Joseph getting some magic glasses to help him read the translation?

    Not sure this is any crazier than Moses wondering up a mountain and coming down with some stone slabs of rules.





    RAmen my brother.
    What is even sillier is that in the story as he is getting those tablets the Israelites find a new idol to worship. Keep that in mind as they recently witnessed their God send a prophet to rescue them, cast down plagues of all sorts down on their captures, mana from heaven to feed them and parting of a sea so they could escape. To then say ah screw that deity, this golden calf is the new beez kneez is funny reading it later in life.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHGHCP View Post
    What is even sillier is that in the story as he is getting those tablets the Israelites find a new idol to worship. Keep that in mind as they recently witnessed their God send a prophet to rescue them, cast down plagues of all sorts down on their captures, mana from heaven to feed them and parting of a sea so they could escape. To then say ah screw that deity, this golden calf is the new beez kneez is funny reading it later in life.
    That's the thing. The Mormon tale was funny and now becoming half-funny as they breed more and more believers (born without a choice of belief mind you) and soon it will be a big "no-no" to mention Joseph Smith's arrest record and maniacal claims.

    Scientology is a joke, but it'll spread and one day someone will say "yeah like aliens really..." and then quickly met with a "shhhhh.....that's not very respectful".

    I say fight crazy with crazy since knowledge is losing these days. The Flying Spaghetti Monster started it all with his noodly appendage. RAmen.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    No, that doesn't make much sense. What Joseph Smith eventually produced was an English manuscript. He may have claimed to be translating some "golden plates" or whatever, but those golden plates do not still [never did] exist. The characters of the language said to be on the golden plates are complete nonsense.

    So, in other words, there's nothing for "scholars" to translate. The earliest manuscript is in English. Unless that manuscript is wrong or is not the "word of God," then that's all there is to go on. Either way, there's no translating going on here anywhere.
    he lost the plates before they were recorded. he had to resort to looking into a hat with a stone in it. He had his brother write down every word he saw in the hat with the "magic stone". They are the words of Joseph smith. Just like the later doctrine and covenant of plural marriage are.

    Can't wait for Romney to answer some of this stuff.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    Wasn't there a part about Joseph getting some magic glasses to help him read the translation?

    Not sure this is any crazier than Moses wondering up a mountain and coming down with some stone slabs of rules.





    RAmen my brother.
    It was a magic stone that he put in a hat, then burried his face in the dark hat and claimed the stone glowed and showed him the answers. Coincidentally he did this numerous times before finding the angel moroni and the plates. During those previous times he was hired to find lost treasure with his magic stone methods. He was charged with fraud numerous times and had to relocate due to his damaged reputation. Odd that a man of that stature and reputation could generate so many followers.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
    he lost the plates before they were recorded. he had to resort to looking into a hat with a stone in it. He had his brother write down every word he saw in the hat with the "magic stone". They are the words of Joseph smith. Just like the later doctrine and covenant of plural marriage are.

    Can't wait for Romney to answer some of this stuff.
    Why would Romney have to answer some of this stuff?

    No, I'm completely against that. Not only should religion have nothing to do with elections, it's also ridiculous to put a politician through such questioning.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
    It was a magic stone that he put in a hat, then burried his face in the dark hat and claimed the stone glowed and showed him the answers. Coincidentally he did this numerous times before finding the angel moroni and the plates. During those previous times he was hired to find lost treasure with his magic stone methods. He was charged with fraud numerous times and had to relocate due to his damaged reputation. Odd that a man of that stature and reputation could generate so many followers.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by philab View Post
    Why would Romney have to answer some of this stuff?

    No, I'm completely against that. Not only should religion have nothing to do with elections, it's also ridiculous to put a politician through such questioning.
    While I agree with you, I do have to wonder... is it a good idea to vote for someone that seems to be so easily duped, or so completely ignorant of the history of his own recently-created religion?


    And I say that as someone that considered voting for Romney.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    While I agree with you, I do have to wonder... is it a good idea to vote for someone that seems to be so easily duped, or so completely ignorant of the history of his own recently-created religion?


    And I say that as someone that considered voting for Romney.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean.

    Are we assuming that Romney is a devout Mormon or not? And I actually don't know whether he is.

    If he is devout (not says, is), then certainly that would make me less likely to vote for him. BUT, I'd just rather not know one way or another. And it's ridiculous to make him either (a) lie or (b) risk a chance at political office because of something that does not concern political office.

    If he is NOT devout (again, not says, is not), then that would be a sigh of relief. BUT, all the same, I'd just rather not know one way or another. And it's ridiculous to make him either (a) lie or (b) risk a chance at political office because of something that does not concern political office.


    It always seems pretty clear whether a politician is actually religious or not. If they are, they can't stop talking about it. If they aren't, we'll hear about it once or twice to "calm the fears" (like atheists, et al. are a threat or something) and then move on. Romney never really struck me as actually adhering to Mormonism.

    Of the last several presidents ... GW Bush and Carter were for sure religious. Reagan maybe, sorta. The rest (running back to Kennedy), I have my doubts. I'm sure some had varying degrees of adherence, but I wouldn't say any of those presidents (aside from GWB, Carter, and maybe Reagan) were defined by their faith. I'd put a lot of money on Obama being an atheist/agnostic, but of course just recently we heard about how the presidency has "strengthened his faith." So take it for what it is.
    Last edited by philab; 02-07-2011 at 08:21 PM.

  15. #30
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    I'm considering writing in Pete Stark whether he like it or not.

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