Evidence mounts over John Paul II beatification

[debo]

^Except that the Febreze on a turd example is flawed in that evolution and anthropology make a whole lot of sense from a scientific standpoint...

[GGGGG-Men]

So if I stated that calling evolution and anthropology a science is like spraying Febreese on a turd, it only temporarily makes it smell better but it is still a turd. Wouldn't that be bashing those who believe in that and making it out to be that anyone who believes in it is an idiot? I just consider mocking others beliefs because you don't like it to be disrespectful.

Yes that would be bashing, as was my Disneyland comment. Evolution isn't a "belief" BTW.

And respect isn't something you automatically get for proposing something. For instance, if you were interviewing people for a job and a guy came in and claimed he was the best man for it because the great mountain snow god said it was so....it's ok to not respect his opinion and not hire him.

Such is this....the "miracle". The "miracle" has a 1 in one million probability rate which doesn't sound very miraculous. I don't respect people who encourage people to rely on chanting to the sky versus medical treatment. This is a very dangerous standard to set. You can see this by their lack of supporting condoms in AIDS ridden Africa or to not single out the Catholic faith, the witch doctors who say AIDS patients should have sex with a virgin to get rid of it.

It all stems from the same irrational sources and one coincidence in one million attempts does not make it credible whatsoever. I see it as madness which is why it does not get my respect and I "bash" it. By my terms it's a useful metaphor to point out the insanity, BUT I completely understand why it is viewed as bashing from people who take these things seriously.

You can read the 2 threads started by "thewordofgod" to realize what happens when you put faith above fact....

[philab]

On the first bolded part. When I was an infant my core temperature was over 106 for over a month while being in the Childrens Hospital in Seattle. My extremities were ice cold while my core was burning up, they called doctors in from all over the place to work on me and nobody could figure out what was going on or where it was steming from. My Godparents went to the catholic church and they performed a ritual and were told to hang the medalian over my crib and the next day I would be healed. Low and behold that medalian went over my crib and the next day there was no trace of anything happening to me and I was perfectly fine and the doctors marked it off as a miracle. So I don't see how it is far fetched for this to happen. Now I can honestly say that if that never did happen to me than there is a good chance I would be skeptical about this story as well, but I wouldn't completely discredit it.

Yeah, I don't know man. That's a story your godparents told you. You don't actually remember it. I don't want to start trashing your godparents, but maybe you should reconsider some things.

I mean, remember when your parents told you Santa Claus existed? Now I don't mean to equate God with Santa Claus ... The point is that people you loved told you a story because they thought it would serve some purpose. Catch my drift?

So if I stated that calling evolution and anthropology a science is like spraying Febreese on a turd, it only temporarily makes it smell better but it is still a turd. Wouldn't that be bashing those who believe in that and making it out to be that anyone who believes in it is an idiot? I just consider mocking others beliefs because you don't like it to be disrespectful.

I'd like to hear your argument.

And particulars please. None of this "well picking and choosing evidence" crap. Point out the holes in evolution.

[Yendil]

^Except that the Febreze on a turd example is flawed in that evolution and anthropology make a whole lot of sense from a scientific standpoint...

No they don't they do not follow a scientific approach like science does, they do not attempt to disprove themselves, they cherry pick the evidence. How is this so called "science" the only one to not follow scientific formulas? They are also hypocritical in their approach in explanations, it is one way for one thing yet completely different on the same scenerio to explain something else. Science doesn't do that, If A=B and B=C then A will ALWAYS = C, if it doesn't then you go back to the drawing board, funny how they don't and just like to leave out contradicting evidence.

[Yendil]

Yeah, I don't know man. That's a story your godparents told you. You don't actually remember it. I don't want to start trashing your godparents, but maybe you should reconsider some things.

I mean, remember when your parents told you Santa Claus existed? Now I don't mean to equate God with Santa Claus ... The point is that people you loved told you a story because they thought it would serve some purpose. Catch my drift?

you know nothing about what you are talking about, you are making assumptions which are compeletly false. My godparents never told me that story. To make assumptions because you don't like it with nothing to back it up is rediculous catch my drift?

[debo]

No they don't they do not follow a scientific approach like science does, they do not attempt to disprove themselves, they cherry pick the evidence. How is this so called "science" the only one to not follow scientific formulas? They are also hypocritical in their approach in explanations, it is one way for one thing yet completely different on the same scenerio to explain something else. Science doesn't do that, If A=B and B=C then A will ALWAYS = C, if it doesn't then you go back to the drawing board, funny how they don't and just like to leave out contradicting evidence.

You need to do some more research in those fields, dude.


There's no point in replying if you have that opinion stuck in your head.

[philab]

you know nothing about what you are talking about, you are making assumptions which are compeletly false. My godparents never told me that story. To make assumptions because you don't like it with nothing to back it up is rediculous catch my drift?

Then how do you know the story?

[GGGGG-Men]

No they don't they do not follow a scientific approach like science does, they do not attempt to disprove themselves, they cherry pick the evidence. How is this so called "science" the only one to not follow scientific formulas? They are also hypocritical in their approach in explanations, it is one way for one thing yet completely different on the same scenerio to explain something else. Science doesn't do that, If A=B and B=C then A will ALWAYS = C, if it doesn't then you go back to the drawing board, funny how they don't and just like to leave out contradicting evidence.

Yeah, I don't know man. That's a story your godparents told you. You don't actually remember it. I don't want to start trashing your godparents, but maybe you should reconsider some things.

I mean, remember when your parents told you Santa Claus existed? Now I don't mean to equate God with Santa Claus ... The point is that people you loved told you a story because they thought it would serve some purpose. Catch my drift?



I'd like to hear your argument.

And particulars please. None of this "well picking and choosing evidence" crap. Point out the holes in evolution.

You guys are gonna need to start a new evolution thread (which is doomed to be closed before it starts). Back to the sainthood topic at hand....

[Yendil]

You guys are gonna need to start a new evolution thread (which is doomed to be closed before it starts). Back to the sainthood topic at hand....

haha no, those always turn out bad. And plus I do believe in Evolution to an extent, just not the extent in which some groups claim it to be, I accept it for what it is, a theory. Just like a large percent of everything else

[Yendil]

You need to do some more research in those fields, dude.


There's no point in replying if you have that opinion stuck in your head.

I've studied it for a long time which is how I know its hypocritical in its formulas. Each scenerio if doesn't equal what it is suppose to they create some new equation to solve it.

[debo]

^They are such because it is impossible to prove. Evidence suggests, however, that it's likely the correct theory (and the large majority of that theory included).

That brings me back to where I think this got derailed - where's the evidence for this miracle? I'm not arguing that it's not a very, very good thing for the Church to have a guy like JPII beatified. However, the "miracle" business and having it be damn near impossible to verify this case makes the whole situation shady. Again, I'm not arguing against his beatification. Rather, I'm pointing out how flawed the system is and how amusing it is that an outlandish claim (which yes, that's a miracle by Church definition...I understand that game) such as this HAS to be used to beatify. To me, it'd make more sense to just say "We're making you a saint because of your contributions, and the reach and scope of your message during your time as a pope is in and of itself a miracle."

[GGGGG-Men]

haha no, those always turn out bad. And plus I do believe in Evolution to an extent, just not the extent in which some groups claim it to be, I accept it for what it is, a theory. Just like a large percent of everything else

Ok well now you got me going:

1. It's not a belief, it's a process.
2. You are downplaying "theory" when in science theory is much different than common use: http://notjustatheory.com/

ok...had to let that out. But a new evolution thread is needed. Maybe it would just get closed, but there have been some good civil religious debates in this forum and far less aggressive than in the general discussion forum

[natepro]

On the first bolded part. When I was an infant my core temperature was over 106 for over a month while being in the Childrens Hospital in Seattle. My extremities were ice cold while my core was burning up, they called doctors in from all over the place to work on me and nobody could figure out what was going on or where it was steming from. My Godparents went to the catholic church and they performed a ritual and were told to hang the medalian over my crib and the next day I would be healed. Low and behold that medalian went over my crib and the next day there was no trace of anything happening to me and I was perfectly fine and the doctors marked it off as a miracle. So I don't see how it is far fetched for this to happen. Now I can honestly say that if that never did happen to me than there is a good chance I would be skeptical about this story as well, but I wouldn't completely discredit it.

Outside of being anecdotal, there's also no way you could prove this. For all I know, you could've literally just made this story up as you typed it. Hell, even you don't have first-hand knowledge of it.

The second bolded part. There are alot of things you can not "scientifically" prove that people believe yet people still claim its "science". Common misconseption is that if a group claims it to be a science than all the sudden everything they put out is marked as fact when in actuality it is cherry picking evidence and not even going by what makes something fact in science. For something to be a scientific fact you can not disprove it, which is why actual scientist spend a majority of their research attempting to disprove their theory and then send it off and have others attempt to disprove it before they even contemplate claiming it is a fact.

I have no idea what you're referring to here, or really what the point is.

So if I stated that calling evolution and anthropology a science is like spraying Febreese on a turd, it only temporarily makes it smell better but it is still a turd. Wouldn't that be bashing those who believe in that and making it out to be that anyone who believes in it is an idiot? I just consider mocking others beliefs because you don't like it to be disrespectful.

If you started calling evolution and anthropology (seriously, anthropology?) a science, then you'd be.. normal.

The difference between evolution and a dead Pope healing someone is that one of them has a mountain of evidence in their favor, and the other.. just doesn't have any Febreeze.

[natepro]

I accept it for what it is, a theory.

Like that whole gravity thing, right?

[dbroncos78087]

So if I stated that calling evolution and anthropology a science is like spraying Febreese on a turd, it only temporarily makes it smell better but it is still a turd. Wouldn't that be bashing those who believe in that and making it out to be that anyone who believes in it is an idiot? I just consider mocking others beliefs because you don't like it to be disrespectful.

I suppose you could but of course you would be ridiculed for belittling proven fact such as evolution. Saying evolution isnt real or belittling it in the way you appear to by this statement would be on par with saying the earth is flat or the earth is the center of the universe. The facts are so easily proven wrong that it is a shame.