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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    ^ To my knowledge, no actual baptist churches acknowledge the WBC. They distance themselves as far away as possible from that insane group. They're not baptists, or a church.

    And yes, to a certain extent, people can call themselves whatever they want. I could found the Flying Spaghetti Monster Mosque in my living room. That alone would not make me, or any other members of my mosque, Muslims.
    Well I was 99% sure they didn't have a baptist accreditation if there was one. That's what I was getting at.

    I do disagree with you though. By the legal definition they are a church. The IRS won't comment, but most people believe they are tax exempt and do qualify under US guidelines as a church. Not a Church you or I would attend but a church non the less.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    None of these groups have anything to do with the WBC, or any relevance at all with the topic being discussed. Deflection fail.
    I'm pretty sure he wasn't referring to you or even directing any sort of discussion towards you.

    He's saying what I've said throughout this entire thread. Who is one to determine what a "real Christian" is?
    I'm In.



  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout
    Who is one to determine what a "real Christian" is?
    Christians are. People who don't pretend to be one, or euphemistically use the label.

    Quote Originally Posted by behindmydesk
    By the legal definition they are a church.
    Since when is the government the authority on what is & isn't a church? Is my Flying Spaghetti Monster Mosque a church by its legal definition? I don't care what taxes they are & aren't paying. They aren't baptists, or a church.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  4. #124
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    IRS definition of a church

    Because of First Amendment religious freedom concerns, Congress has never passed any statute anywhere which defines what a church is (beyond saying "a church or convention or association of churches", which is like saying that the definition of a duck is "one or more ducks"). The IRS, which apparently is unconstrained by the First Amendment, has nonetheless ventured where angels fear to tread, and has established criteria which, in its view, define a church as follows:

    1. A distinct legal existence
    2. A recognized creed and form of worship
    3. A definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
    4. A formal code of doctrine and discipline
    5. A distinct religious history
    6. A membership not associated with any other church or denomination
    7. An organization of ordained ministers
    8. Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies
    9. A literature of its own
    10. Established places of worship
    11. Regular congregations
    12. Regular religious services
    13. Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young
    14. Schools for the preparation of its ministers.

    The Tax Court, which is apparently unconstrained by the IRS administrative criteria, has adopted its own view, consisting of most of the same criteria compacted into 7 or 8 points. See, e.g., Pusch v. Commissioner, 39 T.C.M. 838 (1980) or Chapman v. Commissioner 48 T.C. 358 (1967). In any event, not all of the 14 criteria must be met by every individual church, since only a substantial denomination will meet all of the criteria, and the IRS must allow for the existence of independent churches. Thus, there is substantial "wiggle room."
    Betcha I can take that wiggle room and get tax exempt status for my Flying Spaghetti Monster Mosque.

    Again, Westboro Baptist Church - not baptists, or a church. Just a bunch of insane haters trying to make certain people's lives as bad as possible.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Christians are. People who don't pretend to be one, or euphemistically use the label.



    Since when is the government the authority on what is & isn't a church? Is my Flying Spaghetti Monster Mosque a church by its legal definition? I don't care what taxes they are & aren't paying. They aren't baptists, or a church.
    DF that's like saying since when does any government have the authority to tax me.

    By legal def they are a church and I believe registered as a church.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindmydesk
    By legal def they are a church and I believe registered as a church.
    Great, but that doesn't mean they are, in fact, a church. Government does have the authority to tax and to dictate terms of taxation based on its own definitions, but those definitions have no authority beyond the terms of taxation. Just look at the bolded part above. The IRS definition of a church is hardly one to feel confident about.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Great, but that doesn't mean they are, in fact, a church. Government does have the authority to tax and to dictate terms of taxation based on its own definitions, but those definitions have no authority beyond the terms of taxation. Just look at the bolded part above. The IRS definition of a church is hardly one to feel confident about.
    well i'm not going to be in the business of saying anything isn't a church that is inside the realm of the definition. Again it's not a church I would go too, and I doubt you. I mean I might go to it, for giggles to see what all the hub bub is about, but from seeing documentary's on that, I have a good idea what they are, and doubt going to a service of theirs would give me any new info.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    Great, but that doesn't mean they are, in fact, a church. Government does have the authority to tax and to dictate terms of taxation based on its own definitions, but those definitions have no authority beyond the terms of taxation. Just look at the bolded part above. The IRS definition of a church is hardly one to feel confident about.
    What are you using to define what is or isn't a church?
    lol nothing matters

  9. #129
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    All organized religion is a terrible idea

    /thread

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindmydesk View Post
    i was asking a question because that seemed to me what you were insinuating you would do.
    Thanks for answering


    regardless they have already picked in miami according to a google search.
    no problem

    Quote Originally Posted by labgrownmangoat View Post
    glad we found the person that can make that determination. Cause i have a few questions now that we've found you.

    Are catholics christians?
    Mormons?
    Jehovah's witnesses?
    Copts?
    Rastafarians?
    Protestants in general?
    Baptists?
    Lutherans?
    Anglicans?
    Baha'i?
    Unitarians?
    Anabaptists?
    The way?
    Christian brotherhood?
    Trinitarians?
    Unification church?

    Please keep in mind while answering that many of these consider at least some of the others "not christians". I await your categorically correct answers.
    irrelivent to the conversation
    imo they are not christians... In your opinion they might be, but in mine, they are not.
    I am not a christian so i have no right to say but i do have the right to exprss my opinion and once again, i feel they are not christians.
    From my knowledge, christians show love, understanding, and forgivness, these "christians" have shown none of that. All they have shown is hate.
    In a christians eyes (in gods eyes) a child, is free of sin, so how can a so called christian picket a 9 year olds funeral just because she is a catholic? She is free of sin. She is a child of god til she is old enough to chose her own religon if any.
    Apperently ppl on this thread dont like that im saying in my eyes that arnt christians but thats my opinion, not a fact.
    To me this is a hate group that doesnt pay taxes, no more.
    And after reading this thread yesterday i asked my gf (a christian) what she thinks and she feels the same, once again she is no one to decide, but much more knowlegable on what being a christians is than i am.
    They have the right to call themselves whatever they want, just like a can call myself asian, but guess what? Im not

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikealike305 View Post
    no problem



    irrelivent to the conversation
    imo they are not christians... In your opinion they might be, but in mine, they are not.
    I am not a christian so i have no right to say but i do have the right to exprss my opinion and once again, i feel they are not christians.
    From my knowledge, christians show love, understanding, and forgivness, these "christians" have shown none of that. All they have shown is hate.
    In a christians eyes (in gods eyes) a child, is free of sin, so how can a so called christian picket a 9 year olds funeral just because she is a catholic? She is free of sin. She is a child of god til she is old enough to chose her own religon if any.
    Apperently ppl on this thread dont like that im saying in my eyes that arnt christians but thats my opinion, not a fact.
    To me this is a hate group that doesnt pay taxes, no more.
    And after reading this thread yesterday i asked my gf (a christian) what she thinks and she feels the same, once again she is no one to decide, but much more knowlegable on what being a christians is than i am.
    They have the right to call themselves whatever they want, just like a can call myself asian, but guess what? Im not
    How about we just slightly revise your statement to appease the semantics freaks out there? They are, by technical definition, real Christians. They just seem to completely ignore many basic Christian values. They do not practice their faith in a manner that completely falls in line with Christ's teachings.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Ooh Child View Post
    How about we just slightly revise your statement to appease the semantics freaks out there? They are, by technical definition, real Christians. They just seem to completely ignore many basic Christian values. """They do not practice their faith in a manner that completely falls in line with Christ's teachings."""
    A Christian (help·info) is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

    BY THE DEFINITION OF A CHRISTIAN... THEY ARE NOT

    U JUST SAID THEY DO NOT PRACTICE THEIR FAITH IN A MANNER THAT COMPLETELY FALL IN IN WITH CHRISTS TEACHINGS.... WELL EITHER THE DEFINITION I HAVE ABOVE IS WRONG, OR CHRIST WAS A MESSED UP DUDE, AND I DONT THINK ITS THE LATTER

    my bad i didnt mean to yell lol i work with caps on so i forget to take them off when its not work related
    Last edited by mikealike305; 01-12-2011 at 04:24 PM.

  13. #133
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    The WBC is a blatant scam. The entire congregation is virtually one family. But as a CHURCH, they don't pay taxes. They force themselves into public in order to draw media fees. And then they piss people off to get tort settlements. All tax-free. Great stuff.

  14. #134
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    I dont know the government's restrictions on how politically active a church can be, but i have always seen that they are suppose to be restricted in their political activity. That is why i have said that their tax exempt status should be removed.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I dont know the government's restrictions on how politically active a church can be, but i have always seen that they are suppose to be restricted in their political activity. That is why i have said that their tax exempt status should be removed.
    The limitations are based on partisan politics.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

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