I have a question: Would you feel so strongly about how "credible" his opinion was if he had taken the exact opposite stance?
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I dont know if he will be called as a witness for the shooting, but he will be called when sentencing comes around. I dont want to appear to cold or calculating, but this guy is the best shot that the shooter has of avoiding the death penalty. People will put many of their own convictions aside if they see that the dad of the little girl thinks that we shouldnt be too extreme with the punishment.
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This is a trivial argument. His opinion matters if you believe it does. There's no all encompassing rule on whose opinion is worth something; it's valuable to the listener who feels it is. If you don't then it isn't.
I think it's a strong move by him in a time of grief and for the masses an opinion that is wanted. I don't consider him an authority on restrictions of freedoms just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but his opinion matters just as much as everyone else does.....which depending on the day is A LOT or not a damn bit.
I want this guy to get the death penalty and would likely ignore his plea on this, but im not going to say that it shouldnt matter, he is the one who is actually suffering because of it.
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His "use" (and yes that is sad) by the defense will be to keep the needle out of the shooters arm. They will parade him, and this story, around for the death penalty decision.
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Yes. It matters just as much as everyone else with a similar knowledge or expertise on the advantages and disadvantages of restrictions on freedoms. Since we've been given no such knowledge or expertise, I'm not quite sure why we're being told that this opinion should matter any more than anyone else's.I think it's a strong move by him in a time of grief and for the masses an opinion that is wanted. I don't consider him an authority on restrictions of freedoms just because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but his opinion matters just as much as everyone else does.....which depending on the day is A LOT or not a damn bit.
It's not. Quote me where I said it was or drop the argument.Why is it ok to use some victims to push a political agenda and not others?
By and large, I agree with him. But thanks for making assumptions.because maybe you may not have agreed with what he said.
Truth is not subjective. And if that's why you posted this, then the reference to his relationship to this tragedy serves what purpose?and I posted this because what he is saying is true.
It's not, no matter how much you or I agree with him.you may not feel that way, but it is.
Those two things are wholly unrelated. Demonizing me by saying I need a "human being lesson" is nothing like assuming someone's reason for posting a thread on an internet message board. And, um, who is making assumptions here again?you told someone in this very post im quoting you to not demonize you again, well then don't assume the reason for me posting what he said.
Please explain the reference to this man's relationship to this tragedy. In other words, why does the title of this thread start out with "Father of 9 Year Old Murder Victim ..."?
Also, your characterizations of his argument as "truth" pretty well corroborate my argument. And the exclamation point doesn't do much to combat my argument that citing this man's opinion plays on passions and not reason.
You are actively trying to cloud reason with passions. That is a fundamental error. I am pointing out that error.
Last edited by philab; 01-11-2011 at 03:52 PM.
Last edited by D Roses Bulls; 01-11-2011 at 04:03 PM.
Tilting at windmills ...I do not think we should have more restrictions in this country. I think we have too many already, but I'm not letting my passion cloud me. what reason do you speak of? should we let this isolated incident really affect all Americans? what good is that really gonna do? now the congressman that wants to introduce a bill to make it a federal crime to make a threat,signs, or gestures towards pretty much anyone who is a law maker, is he right? how will that help this country more? all thats going to do is create more fear towards the government. they could use that bill to intimidate anyone who is against a certain politician.
The man's opinion might very well be rational. Referring to his relationship to this tragedy, however, is funneling in passions and thus not rational. In other words, I'm talking about YOU, not him.and how does this mans opinions play on passion? his daughter was just murdered, most people that have had a child killed by a gun become pro gun control and the same when a child is killed for example by drinking a driving. if anything, this guy wasn't speaking from passion,he was speaking rationally and using his head, but not his heart.
Regarding him, what you don't seem to understand is that I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Given his proximity to the situation and the likelihood that passions would cloud his reason, I ordinarily would discredit his opinion altogether. Here, however, I'm willing to assume that he's being rational. Problem is, he's still just a random rational guy in Tucson. I've been alerted to no special expertise or knowledge that he has regarding restrictions on freedom. As such, I've been alerted to no reason why his opinion matters more than that of anyone else.
And thus you were an accomplice to the attempt to cloud reason.Also, I had used the title, because it was the title of the video. not since a mod accused me of switching the titles to a story to fit my own agenda over the summer have I used my own title. if you click the link, thats the title of the actual video, all i did was copy and paste.