Rep Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) shot

[philab]

Thread title should probably be changed.

This is tragic and senseless. I don't think I'm one to immediately jump on the bandwagon about an issue, but all of this "don't retreat... RELOAD!;" ""if Congress keeps it up, people may find themselves resorting to Second Amendment remedies;" "armed and dangerous;" etc... needs to stop.

We need to stop vilifying and demonizing political opposition, and threatening violence because they believe in a different way to run the country.

It needed to stop before Rep. Giffords was shot. And it needs to stop still.


As for the Palin thing (directed to the thread generally): she deserves whatever PR catastrophe ensues. When you throw your hat in that ring, you can't pull it out after something like this.

That said, this shooting can't rationally be attributed to her. The guy was crazy, period. I don't care if he comes out and says, "Palin's website convinced me I needed to shoot Rep. Giffords." All that would indicate is the channel this guy's crazy went down.

Again, she can and should fry in the PR arena. That's not a rational game. After playing on irrationality for over two years now, she deserves every bit of irrationality heading back to her. But to blame her for this? Nah.

[cabernetluver]

Thread title should probably be changed.

This is tragic and senseless. I don't think I'm one to immediately jump on the bandwagon about an issue, but all of this "don't retreat... RELOAD!;" ""if Congress keeps it up, people may find themselves resorting to Second Amendment remedies;" "armed and dangerous;" etc... needs to stop.

We need to stop vilifying and demonizing political opposition, and threatening violence because they believe in a different way to run the country.

Amen

[Patsfan56]

Another update, and some small signs of hope:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/gabriel...ry?id=12576433

If you're talking to me, I suggest you address your remarks to Rep. Giffords instead.

Really?

[SLY WILLIAMS]

Mrs Giffords is alive. I'm grateful that she is alive. Is there any reason not to change the title of this thread?

[StealingSigns]

Mrs Giffords is alive. I'm grateful that she is alive. Is there any reason not to change the title of this thread?

Are you able to change it Sly? If so, go for it.

[SLY WILLIAMS]

Are you able to change it Sly? If so, go for it.

It isn't my forum so I can't change it.

[gcoll]

I see no reason to combine the stories of the political rhetoric and this shooter.

If you think the political rhetoric needs to be softened, I respect that. I don't agree with it of course. But, given what we know so far...using this event as an example seems to be at best extremely knee-jerk, and at worst motivated by purely political reasons. There's no evidence supporting any connection between the two. And, of the evidence that is available, it seems like this guy was on his own wavelength. Which is why they are shifting the argument from "This inspired him!" to "this created a climate where the mentally unstable are susceptible to vitriol" which seems to be sort of a silly point. Are we really gonna judge what we say based on how it impacts a person who thinks the US government is controlling minds by controlling grammatical structure?

And another interesting thought that occurred to me. If the rhetoric on talk radio, and from Sarah Palin can inspire violence...then what can all the anger directed at them incite? I mean, Christ...we have a woman being accused of inciting murder based on no evidence, for purely political reasons. It's ****ing nuts man.

[philab]

I see no reason to combine the stories of the political rhetoric and this shooter.

If you think the political rhetoric needs to be softened, I respect that. I don't agree with it of course. But, given what we know so far...using this event as an example seems to be at best extremely knee-jerk, and at worst motivated by purely political reasons. There's no evidence supporting any connection between the two. And, of the evidence that is available, it seems like this guy was on his own wavelength. Which is why they are shifting the argument from "This inspired him!" to "this created a climate where the mentally unstable are susceptible to vitriol" which seems to be sort of a silly point. Are we really gonna judge what we say based on how it impacts a person who thinks the US government is controlling minds by controlling grammatical structure?

And another interesting thought that occurred to me. If the rhetoric on talk radio, and from Sarah Palin can inspire violence...then what can all the anger directed at them incite? I mean, Christ...we have a woman being accused of inciting murder based on no evidence, for purely political reasons. It's ****ing nuts man.

What if some MSNBC devotee killed Palin right about now?

****, that would be great (minus the murder part, of course). Maybe, just maybe, everyone would shut the hell up for once.

[DodgersFan28]

If some MSNBC devotee killed Palin, the left's supporters would say Palin's rhetoric brought the shooting upon herself. They'd then go into a huge case for gun control, and control over exactly what sort of words & images can be seen & said over publicly accessible airwaves and the internet.

What I can't really understand is why Giffords' injury is for some reason more significant than the death of that 9 year old little girl.

[The Schmooze]

My first, gut-check response initially was that this HAD to be politically-motivated. However, as the facts come out(and its still early) it seems like this kind was just a pure nutjob, sans significant political reasons for doing what he did. His rantings on grammar and currency were downright insane(which I hope does NOT help his defense once this goes to trial).

I'd like to echo those in this thread in that you don't want it to turn into finger-pointing from both sides. However, I absolutely agree that the violent, heated political discourse NEEDS to stop. The best result is to try to turn a horrific situation...into one that can bring the country together. I just hope that it doesn't create more fear where our representatives will only appear in public with armed body guards, or just stop meeting the people in public all-together.

That's all I can really say right now, I have my own beliefs and assumptions on the matter, but will attempt to reserve further judgement until all the facts come out. I think DF has a point though in that we should not forget the other victims in this tragedy.

[cabernetluver]

It is important that 6 people, including the senseless death of Christina Taylor-Green be observed.

It is factual that we do elevate certain attacks above others. For instance, in California, when policeman is shot, while on duty, there are higher penalties than when a retail clerk is shot.

[gcoll]

Look at the mugshot.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/10/ja...eleased-photo/

The guy is ****ing insane.

[Patsfan56]

Look at the mugshot.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/10/ja...eleased-photo/

The guy is ****ing insane.

Holy crap. There is crazy, then bat**** insane, and then, as in Spaceballs, there's going plaid. If that's true this guy looks like my family ****ing tartan.

[gcoll]

Every piece of information that has emerged, including the mugshot, seems to point toward the idea that the guy has some severe mental problems, and that that is the likely cause of the shooting.

Yet people are still trying to advance their political goals about the rhetoric when there is absolutely nothing to substantiate that the two are connected in any way shape or form. I also gotta ask why this guy's motives even matter. The Florida School Board shooters motives didn't matter. He was pissed that his wife got fired, but also railed against the rich. Nobody talked about the need to tone down class warfare rhetoric. Or what about Fort Hood? Nobody cared about his motives, or talked about the need to calm down anti-military and anti-war rhetoric.

But when the chance comes to link Sarah Palin and talk radio to the issue...there is a ****-storm. I've seen some embarrassingly dishonest commentary in the past few days on this issue.

[SmthBluCitrus]

I'm not sure I'd call toning down the rhetoric a "political goal."