Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 61
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500

    2013 UFC Fighter Pay Discussion : Dana White, Fighter Comments, Sponsors etc.

    Here in the last couple weeks this discussion has kind of been picking up some steam as fighters are slowly coming out speaking against fighter pay from Zuffa. So I figured we could have some discussion on it with some new comments and information taken into consideration.

    For starters here are some recent comments from current and former UFC fighters on the subject.


    Tim Kennedy

    “It’s pathetic that so many fighters [have to have other jobs]…I’m one of the top guys in the whole entire sport and it would be slim pickings to survive off what I make in fighting.”

    “It’s a good thing I have another job because the UFC doesn’t pay very well… Anybody who accepts that as a reality of the sport is sad and pathetic. I hope this isn’t the reality of the sport, if it is I should probably go do something else, like empty trash cans. I’d make more money than I do now.”
    About a week later Tim Kennedy went on to say that his comments were taken out of context. Yeah okay....

    https://www.facebook.com/mmaopinion/...20919211291395


    John Cholish

    The main reason behind it is just I do kind of have another job that provides for me and it got to the point where I really had to sit back and say, ‘You know, all the sacrifices that I'm making, time away from family, time away from friends, is it really worth what I'm getting in return? For the love of the sport, I was pretty much doing it the whole time, but then it gets to the point where financially, it just doesn't make any sense.

    To kind of give a brief overview, why I'm here talking to you today is I just think a lot of fighters feel the exact same way I do, but are just in a situation or position where they're, for a lack of a better word, just scared to say anything about it, because they're worried about the repercussions.

    I can say from how I've been treated indirectly and just my understanding of what I think the UFC takes in on an annual basis, they could compensate the lower-level fighters and without going into detail the upper-level fighters a little bit better. I think if you're a fighter on the lower level, you should at least be getting enough income - win or lose in your fight - so that in a three-month period of time or two-month period of time, whatever the fight camp may be, you can go into that fight fully focused on the fight, performing your best as opposed to worrying about, ‘Man, you know, financially how can I prepare? Cut corners? Because someone who fights full time, I just don't see how they can live off the income at this level.

    But just for a basic example. So Danny Castillo I know trains out of California. He had to travel to New Jersey. I live in New York. I had to travel to Brazil. You're fighting in a sport, mixed martial arts, with a wide range of skills and tactics and a lot of people will have multiple coaches. You're allowed three corners for each fight, but you're only in your contract, and for me personally, I only get one coach's flight and one hotel room and cover one visa. I know just from this last fight, I had to pay over $3,000 in flights. I had to pay for an additional hotel room. I had to pay for two additional visas which are $500 a piece. I have to pay for the licensing fees. I have to pay for the medicals. Before you even step to the ring, your original purse is gone. And that's before factoring in the gyms I go to train at, my coaches that take hours of time to sacrifice. I want to pay them and take care of them. If a fighter doesn't do well, how does he reciprocate his coaches who put their hours and time and their training partners? It just seems like certain things could be handled better and the fighter could be treated better for an organization that claims to be the best in the world in mixed martial arts.
    He went on to say that he made $8,000 for his fight in Brazil against Gleison Tibau and that for the fight he ended up over $5,000 in the hole because of all the taxes and fees for the fight.

    The fight prior to that he won and made $12,000 plus a $5,000 discretionary bonus and ended up making a little over $1,000 after it was all said and done.

    http://www.mmamania.com/2013/5/22/43...ighter-pay-mma

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    Nate Quarry

    Well, they're very unsatisfied. They have next to no negotiating power whatsoever. One big organization basically dictates whatever happens...It's a catch-22, because without the UFC where would I be? Where would the sport be? I consider myself ridiculous lucky because of all the things Dana White, the Fertittas, and the UFC have done for me - and all the athletes - is amazing. But on the flip side, what all the athletes have done for Dana White and the Fertittas is amazing.

    Look at Lombard. He gets all this money even though he's never fought in the UFC and no one really knows who he is and then comes in and has a terrible performance. The reason he gets paid ten times as much as Stephan Bonner is because the UFC had to buy him away from Bellator. You see that in boxing all the time because there are multiple promoters and companies all trying to get a guy because they know he's valuable and they can make money with him.

    When I started fighting for the UFC, I was told, well we can't pay you very much, but you can have any sponsors you want. Then it became you can't have conflicting sponsors. Then it became we need to approve your sponsors. Then it became your sponsors have to pay a tax so they can sponsor you and the UFC. Now these small companies that could pay a fighter $5,000 can't afford it anymore.
    Nate Quarry is a pretty good source as he is a solid UFC company man.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...of-competition


    Chris Camozzi

    PPV walkout tees have gone from a big payday for fighters to essentially non-existent. The fighters do not seem to care about how little they make and it seems like managers don’t either when it comes to sponsorship. This used to be such a big part of the sport.

    Even just a couple years ago it was very possible to earn $10K for your walkout shirt alone being featured on the UFC main card. Yet in 2013 I turned down offers that were in the $3K range for my walkout shirt.
    http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news...-sponsorships/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    That is a big deal right now that the sponsors are paying nowhere near what they were paying in the past. In addition to those comments above Roy Nelson said that for his fight at UFC 161 he got $15,000 in sponsor pay. That should tell you about the state of sponsor pay that a former Ultimate Fighter winner with a 6-3 UFC record (all 6 wins by KO/TKO) who is fighting in the co-main event makes $15,000 in sponsor pay.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    Here are some of Dana White's recent comments.

    "You don't like the structure? All right, we'll pay the lower-level guys more money – no more f--king bonuses," Dana White said. "You guys come in, you negotiate your contracts, and we do away with all bonuses. That's what I'm thinking about doing."

    "The bonuses are something we've been doing out of the kindness of our f--king heart," White said. "It was something we liked to do. Apparently, people don't like it. They want the lower-level guys to get paid more money."

    "We're more like Major League Soccer, as far as financials go," he said. "You fight three times a year, you make [$50,000 to show and $50,000 to win], you're making $300,000 a year fighting three times a year.
    http://www.mmajunkie.com/news/2013/0...nating-bonuses

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    The problem with Dana White's comments....

    (1) We don't know what bonuses they give out. For every fighter that discloses their backroom pay we have one that comes out and says they never got any backroom pay.

    (2) The hypothetical fighter that makes $50,000/$50,000 and fights 3 times a year represents less than 5% of the UFC.

    The average fighter in the UFC only fights 2 times a year. I would bet money that less than 1/3 of the fighters in the UFC (probably close to 1/4) fight 3 times a year.

    The average fighter in the UFC doesn't make anywhere near $50,000/$50,000 a fight. The median fighter pay in the UFC is $23,000 per fight.

    So that means the average guy that is in the very middle of the UFC in pay that is most likely to fight twice a year is making $46,000 a year. That is before taxes. That is before paying your camp/agent. That is before fight expenses.

    Dana White said that they benefited the fighters at the bottom of the card by giving away the Fight Night bonuses that are life changing. He pointed to Pat Barry getting $120,000 in bonuses for his win over Antoni Hardonk and that how prior to that he was flat broke and living on beans and rice. How about the fact that Pat Barry had already fought twice in the UFC and was flat broke and living on beans and rice.... If he hadn't won that bonus money he would have been living on the streets.

    That argument also gets shot to hell by the fact that 70% of the bonus money goes to guys fighting on the main card. Nearly 35% of it goes to the fighters in the main event. The guys on the undercard that are underpaid rarely ever see that money. If your fight doesn't get aired on television you can forget getting one of those bonuses.

    He said that if you don't like what you are making then work harder and get those bonuses. There are usually 24 fighters on a card and only 4 of them can win those bonuses.... For example Todd Duffee had a UFC record knockout and didn't even get a bonus that night because Nate Marquardt had a highlight knockout as well.

    The Night Bonuses aren't just a way to reward the fighters. They are also a marketing tool used by the UFC when they are hyping fights. Whenever they talk about Joe Lauzon or Nate Diaz being on the card they mention their Night Bonuses. If it comes down a close decision between a newcomer on the undercard or a guy that is climbing the ladder for a title shot who do you think is gonna get that bonus?

    Something else to note is that the UFC recently put a set figure on the Night bonuses at $50,000. Which is interesting to me because that is lower than what the average had been leading up to that point. There was a pretty solid stretch of events over a couple years where the bonuses were $60,000+ with a fair amount being $75,000.

    You would think that with all the "growth" in the sport they wouldn't lower the bonus payouts.
    Last edited by steelcityroller; 07-06-2013 at 04:03 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38,222
    vCash
    1500
    All the other major sports have them, it's time the UFC did as well: a union. Then it's not just up to Dana White to randomly give out money whenever he feels like it, the lower-tier fighters have negotiating power, and everyone would know what to expect when it comes to pay. A baseball player making league will take home $490,000 a season. Are you going to tell me the UFC can't pay half that? Or even a third? Nonsense.
    Visit my Blog.



    "Glad the GOP finally came out with an Obamacare alternative. Can't wait to see their alternative to the Iraq War." - @LOLGOP

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    Dana White got snippy in a press conference for UFC 162 and stated that he should just do away with the bonuses and divide that money out to all the fighters for every card. He said it in a threatening matter like he would be punishing everybody.

    I have said this for years that they should to that in the first place.... They have said that it motivates for better fights. Well better base pay motivates guys to want to come to the UFC and get proper camps and stay in the UFC.

    If they took that $200,000 that they give out for bonuses and split it then every guy on the card would get another $8,000-$10,000. So now that guy on the bottom making $6,000/$6,000 goes from making $6,000 to $14,000 even with a loss.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    A couple other things to say here that have bothered me from what I have read....

    If the UFC is as big as Dana White boasts and they like to compare themselves to the other major sports then

    (1) There is no way these guys should have to pay for travel, food and lodging for their coaches. The UFC pays for 1 and not a single fighter goes out there with a single coach/corner. They know this and should pay for the difference and up that to 3 or 4 or something that is fair. Expecting a guy that is making $6,000/$6,000 to pay for his coaches to fly and stay in Brazil is a freaking joke. The UFC is a major organization and for events out of the country they should have their own plane that flies out of the country.

    (2) The same as above with international visas, medical screenings and drug tests. No way should the fighter have to pay for those as nearly every major company covers those for their employees. If the UFC is gonna come to a guy and ask him to go out of the country and fight they should cover his passport. Especially when if that fighter turns it down he will be in the doghouse for turning down a fight....

    (3) Dana White pointed out Joe Lauzon and Sam Stout as guys that represent the best in the company and deserve the bonus money and have won them repeatedly over the years. In that same light look at those guys without the bonuses.... Joe Lauzon is 9-5 and Sam Stout is 9-7 in their UFC careers. Joe Lauzon was won 10 bonuses and Sam Stout has won 7.

    Dana White pointed out in his comments that a guy fighting 3 times a year making $50,000/50,000 can make up to $300,000 a year. Okay.... Well the guys he pointed out as being the examples of top guys deserving that money.... Joe Lauzon currently makes $27,000/27,000 and Sam Stout currently makes $26,000/26,000. These are the guys that consistently win those awards and "deserve" the money.

    You do the math on these guys with what it has been disclosed of them making not counting backroom pay. If you look at base pay and the bonuses then Joe Lauzon and Sam Stout have made roughly $90,000-100,000 a year in their UFC careers.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    Its a major deal to international fighters. This is a reason why alot of foreign fighters don't sign with the UFC.

    Jung Chan-Sung "Korean Zombie" lost money on his fights in the WEC and if not for his bonus money would have lost money on his first couple UFC fights as well.

    Dong Hyun Kim said that unless he wins then he barely takes home any money.

    Both of these guys fighting out of Korea have to pay taxes both in the US and in Korea. Not only that but they have to pay increased air fares to the events. DHK said that he has to pay an extra $1,200-2,000 round trip for each extra person to fly from Seoul to the United States. Furthermore he has to leave earlier for his body to get adjusted from the flight so he has to pay for longer food and lodging which can add up for multiple people.

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/8/30...sian-treatment

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,806
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityroller View Post
    That is a big deal right now that the sponsors are paying nowhere near what they were paying in the past. In addition to those comments above Roy Nelson said that for his fight at UFC 161 he got $15,000 in sponsor pay. That should tell you about the state of sponsor pay that a former Ultimate Fighter winner with a 6-3 UFC record (all 6 wins by KO/TKO) who is fighting in the co-main event makes $15,000 in sponsor pay.
    how come? roy nelson has never had a lot of sponsors though.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,806
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by steelcityroller View Post
    Its a major deal to international fighters. This is a reason why alot of foreign fighters don't sign with the UFC.

    Jung Chan-Sung "Korean Zombie" lost money on his fights in the WEC and if not for his bonus money would have lost money on his first couple UFC fights as well.

    Dong Hyun Kim said that unless he wins then he barely takes home any money.

    Both of these guys fighting out of Korea have to pay taxes both in the US and in Korea. Not only that but they have to pay increased air fares to the events. DHK said that he has to pay an extra $1,200-2,000 round trip for each extra person to fly from Seoul to the United States. Furthermore he has to leave earlier for his body to get adjusted from the flight so he has to pay for longer food and lodging which can add up for multiple people.

    http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/8/30...sian-treatment
    they should move to the us like a lot of brazilians.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    40,344
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by tnewkirk View Post
    how come? roy nelson has never had a lot of sponsors though.
    (1) Companies now have to pay not only the fighter but the UFC as well.... A company has to pay the UFC I think $50,000 just to have the right to sponsor fighters. That took alot of smaller sponsors out of the picture. Smaller companies that could sponsor one or two guys and pay them decent just can't justify giving the UFC $50,000 a year and then paying the fighters as well.

    (2) More fighters. Companies now how more options. The money is gonna be down because of supply and demand. In a way they pretty much have the fighters bidding against themselves for sponsorships.

    (3) The economy. Its a copout. The UFC was booming right in the middle of the economic collapse and supposedly we are in a "recovery" period now and yet they are blaming the economy.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    38,222
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by tnewkirk View Post
    they should move to the us like a lot of brazilians.
    And then they have to do the same payments for trips to Brazil, or Australia, or the UK, or Russia...

    There are always going to be foreign fighters, and there are always going to be foreign shows. It's insanity to expect the fighters to pay for it all themselves, and then pay them so little.
    Visit my Blog.



    "Glad the GOP finally came out with an Obamacare alternative. Can't wait to see their alternative to the Iraq War." - @LOLGOP

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6,615
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    All the other major sports have them, it's time the UFC did as well: a union. Then it's not just up to Dana White to randomly give out money whenever he feels like it, the lower-tier fighters have negotiating power, and everyone would know what to expect when it comes to pay. A baseball player making league will take home $490,000 a season. Are you going to tell me the UFC can't pay half that? Or even a third? Nonsense.
    This all depends on MMA fans and whether they can tell crap from quality. I'll say something inflammatory at this point, but if people think Dana White hasn't had the same thought, they are dead wrong. There is a significant portion of the MMA audience that is willing to take complete fictional crap as reality and quality -- those who buy WWE as something other than the land of make believe. The UFC in general, and Dana White in particular, are very acutely aware of this crossover audience. The perception that a significant portion of fans are ready, willing, and able to be fooled by BS is a detriment to the sport.

    Unless and until the owners of the sport truly believe that the fans would turn away from a legitimate decrease in the quality of combatants, there will be no union. There will be no quality improvement at all, in fact. If a pretty, pliant performer who will do what management says will make the same amount for the owners as a difficult, ahole, truly talented fighter, guess who they will choose? 150 times out of 100, they'll choose the tool, provided there isn't a damn good monetary reason not to. Be that reason. <--final comment, and all comments actually, not directed to natepro specifically
    Young black males in recent years were at a far greater risk of being shot dead by police than their white counterparts – 21 times greater i, according to a ProPublica analysis of federally collected data on fatal police shootings.

    But racism is dead. Right?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    34,671
    vCash
    1500
    If a guy is not a top 10 fighter it is a pretty hard way to make a good living.
    I'm always happy to discuss anything from hoops, to hockey, to reality TV with anyone that is polite no matter what their opinion. With that said if you are disrespectful or dishonest poster please do not expect a reply.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •