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  1. #1
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    Greg Hardy Looking For Extension

    Agent for Greg Hardy approaches Panthers about contract extension

    PHOENIX
    The agent for Panthers defensive end Greg Hardy has approached team officials about a contract extension before Hardy enters the final year of his rookie deal.
    Hardy, 24, had a breakout season in 2012 when he finished with 11 sacks, 23 quarterback pressures and two forced fumbles. Hardy, a sixth-round pick from Ole Miss in 2010, is set to make $1.35 million this season after hitting his salary escalators in 2012.
    Drew Rosenhaus, Hardy's agent, recently initiated contract talks with the Panthers, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.
    The Panthers handed out a number of huge contracts two years ago to lock up several members of what ex-general manager Marty Hurney called the team's “core.”
    Defensive end Charles Johnson received the richest deal in franchise history – a six-year, $76 million extension that included $32 million in guaranteed money.
    The spending spree has put the Panthers in bad salary cap position for the next several years. They're currently about $3 million under this year's $123 million cap.
    A crowded field of free agent defensive ends has made for a soft market this year. Former Baltimore DE Paul Kruger signed a reported five-year, $41 million contract with Cleveland that includes $20 million in guarantees, while Cliff Avril went to Seattle for two years and $15 million.
    Next year's free agent class of defensive ends also includes several established players, including Jared Allen, Justin Tuck and Michael Johnson.
    Besides Hardy, the only other potential free agent of note for the Panthers in 2014 is WR Brandon LaFell.
    --Joseph Person
    http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/...extension.html

    Rosenhaus is sweating the fact that the going price for the DE market was horrible this off-season. He's going to try and push a huge deal, maybe even approach CJ's number. The Panthers are absolutely foolish to commit more than maybe $7-8 million per year at this point, especially when you look and see that Cliff Avril got $7.5 million per year and Michael Bennett only got $5 million for one year from Seattle.





  2. #2
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    The team is in no position to increase his 2013 season contract, but if some restructures happen, I say offer him 5m this season, with a 5 year 40m deal with no guaranteed money in his final year.

    Otherwise, wait till next off-season and see what he's worth.

  3. #3
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    This is what I offer Hardy this off-season, tell him take it or we'll discuss this again next off-season:

    2013: $.775MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus (salary fully guaranteed)
    2014: $3MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus (salary fully guaranteed)
    2015: $5MM salary/2MM roster bonus/$1.225MM signing bonus ($2.1MM of salary guaranteed)
    2016: $8MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus
    2017: $10.1MM salary/$3MM roster bonus/$1.225 signing bonus

    That's 5 years/$38MM with $12MM guaranteed. That seems pretty fair to me.
    Last edited by homestarunner93; 03-18-2013 at 03:37 PM.





  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    This is what I offer Hardy this off-season, tell him take it or we'll discuss this again next off-season:

    2013: $.775MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus (salary fully guaranteed)
    2014: $3MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus (salary fully guaranteed)
    2015: $5MM salary/2MM roster bonus/$1.225MM signing bonus ($2.1MM of salary guaranteed)
    2016: $8MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus
    2017: $10.1MM salary/$3MM roster bonus/$1.225 signing bonus

    That's 8 years/$38MM with $12MM guaranteed. That seems pretty fair to me.
    Of course that seems fair to you lol. Honestly I think the Panthers are gonna put him on the back burner cause they have more important things to do like restructuring contracts. Gettleman its time to really roll up the sleeves and make it happen. I have liked Gettleman so far but he has got to push harder on restructures cause we need the cap space now.

    Also in another forum post Homestar says we should not do Multi-year deals right now to help our future salary cap number for the future stay lower. My question to him is if you care about our future number how do you feel about making D Williams a Post June 1st cut? If you care about the future money then I think that is a move you would have to support.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaFan87 View Post
    Of course that seems fair to you lol. Honestly I think the Panthers are gonna put him on the back burner cause they have more important things to do like restructuring contracts. Gettleman its time to really roll up the sleeves and make it happen. I have liked Gettleman so far but he has got to push harder on restructures cause we need the cap space now.

    Also in another forum post Homestar says we should not do Multi-year deals right now to help our future salary cap number for the future stay lower. My question to him is if you care about our future number how do you feel about making D Williams a Post June 1st cut? If you care about the future money then I think that is a move you would have to support.
    Hardy doesn't deserve a deal bigger than that at this point. He has only produced at a high level for one season. He has not proven he deserves more than this deal. That's a much bigger deal than what Cliff Avril got this off-season, and you could argue Avril is a much more proven player than Hardy, even if the upside isn't as high.

    If you think that's a move I would "have to support," you don't understand NFL contracts very well. DeAngelo has three more years on his deal with a prorated cap hit of $3.2 million each year because of his signing bonus. He has already been paid that money, but it counts against the cap still. That means he has $9.6 million in signing bonus cap hit that the team must still absorb. Even if you designate him as a June 1 cut, which lets you spread that hit out over two years, that's a $4.8 million hit in each of the next two seasons. His base salary is $4.75 million, plus he has a $250k workout bonus. The Panthers, even designating him as a June 1 cut, only save $200k off of the cap. So no, I don't support DeAngelo Williams being cut this year, even as a June 1 cut, because he is much more valuable to this team than $200k in cap space. Next year, that may be a different story when the Panthers could conceivably save $2.8 million by designating him as a June 1 cut. He certainly won't see the 2015 year of his contract. I guess you thought you had me backed into a corner here or something (not really sure what your motive is), but cutting DeAngelo Williams this season makes zero sense from a financial standpoint, and anyone who proposed it as a viable solution at any time was speaking out of ignorance.





  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    This is what I offer Hardy this off-season, tell him take it or we'll discuss this again next off-season:

    2013: $.775MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus (salary fully guaranteed)
    2014: $3MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus (salary fully guaranteed)
    2015: $5MM salary/2MM roster bonus/$1.225MM signing bonus ($2.1MM of salary guaranteed)
    2016: $8MM salary/$1.225MM signing bonus
    2017: $10.1MM salary/$3MM roster bonus/$1.225 signing bonus

    That's 8 years/$38MM with $12MM guaranteed. That seems pretty fair to me.
    I'm not blind to the fact that he's only had one really good season, but no chance he signs for less than 6M/season. I'd offer him (I don't feel like checking out our cap hits to double check, so I'm just going to do an overall number):

    2013: 4M (fully guaranteed)
    2014: 5M (fully guaranteed)
    2015: 6M (fully guaranteed)
    2016: 10M (3M guaranteed)
    2017: 10M (1M guaranteed)

    5 years/35M/ 7M/season 19M guaranteed.

    The reason I went for a contract like this is based on the fact that everyone said Hardy's somewhat dense in the head, so maybe he's looking to have a lot of money now (maybe make some bad spending decisions?), so this would give him a guaranteed salary for three years, but would let us cut him in 2016 if he falls off. So theoretically, this deal could, at worst, would be 19M/3 seasons, which would be less than 7M/season, if he doesn't work out.

    Given Hardy's reported low intelligence and injury past (which isn't entirely fair since he's been fine his first three years), I'd be cautious about offering him more than 5 years where he has any guaranteed money.

    I just hope that Hardy is down for staying in Carolina and things are on good terms, because if that's the case we won't have to worry about outbidding garbage teams that are in desperate need of a pass-rusher. Also, it might help that CJ was extremely gracious (and surprised) by the huge contract he was given, and seems to really like being with Carolina, so maybe he'd be willing to re-structure or take a pay-cut to keep Hardy.

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    Also, I agree. Cutting D-Will literally does nothing to help the team, but if he were cut we'd possibly need to draft an HB late so we could have a shifty HB (Stewart is fast for his size, but still not the burner D-Will can be). The only way D-Will isn't a Panther in 2013 is if he's traded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manbearchef View Post
    I'm not blind to the fact that he's only had one really good season, but no chance he signs for less than 6M/season. I'd offer him (I don't feel like checking out our cap hits to double check, so I'm just going to do an overall number):

    2013: 4M (fully guaranteed)
    2014: 5M (fully guaranteed)
    2015: 6M (fully guaranteed)
    2016: 10M (3M guaranteed)
    2017: 10M (1M guaranteed)

    5 years/35M/ 7M/season 19M guaranteed.

    The reason I went for a contract like this is based on the fact that everyone said Hardy's somewhat dense in the head, so maybe he's looking to have a lot of money now (maybe make some bad spending decisions?), so this would give him a guaranteed salary for three years, but would let us cut him in 2016 if he falls off. So theoretically, this deal could, at worst, would be 19M/3 seasons, which would be less than 7M/season, if he doesn't work out.

    Given Hardy's reported low intelligence and injury past (which isn't entirely fair since he's been fine his first three years), I'd be cautious about offering him more than 5 years where he has any guaranteed money.

    I just hope that Hardy is down for staying in Carolina and things are on good terms, because if that's the case we won't have to worry about outbidding garbage teams that are in desperate need of a pass-rusher. Also, it might help that CJ was extremely gracious (and surprised) by the huge contract he was given, and seems to really like being with Carolina, so maybe he'd be willing to re-structure or take a pay-cut to keep Hardy.
    Mine was 5 years, not 8. Sorry. Our's are pretty similar deals. I'll say though, I don't think a $4 million cap hit in year one is feasible for this team right now.





  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    Mine was 5 years, not 8. Sorry. Our's are pretty similar deals. I'll say though, I don't think a $4 million cap hit in year one is feasible for this team right now.
    Ah, I see that now, I probably should've realized 2017 wasn't 8 years lol. But yeah, my 4M/2013 hit was based on a hopeful re-structure/pay cut of Gross and Beason.

  10. #10
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    Lets just look at the stats....He had "ONE" good season. We have the franchise tag in our pockets to use next year if he has similar production.

    2010- 0 starts starts, 3 sacks, 24 tackles, 2 forced fumbles......
    2011- 16 starts, 4 sacks, 38 tacks, 1 forced fumble.....
    2012- 15 starts, 11 sacks, 41 tackles, and 2 forced fumbles.....
    Last edited by bkcpfan9984; 03-18-2013 at 04:12 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by homestarunner93 View Post
    Hardy doesn't deserve a deal bigger than that at this point. He has only produced at a high level for one season. He has not proven he deserves more than this deal. That's a much bigger deal than what Cliff Avril got this off-season, and you could argue Avril is a much more proven player than Hardy, even if the upside isn't as high.

    If you think that's a move I would "have to support," you don't understand NFL contracts very well. DeAngelo has three more years on his deal with a prorated cap hit of $3.2 million each year because of his signing bonus. He has already been paid that money, but it counts against the cap still. That means he has $9.6 million in signing bonus cap hit that the team must still absorb. Even if you designate him as a June 1 cut, which lets you spread that hit out over two years, that's a $4.8 million hit in each of the next two seasons. His base salary is $4.75 million, plus he has a $250k workout bonus. The Panthers, even designating him as a June 1 cut, only save $200k off of the cap. So no, I don't support DeAngelo Williams being cut this year, even as a June 1 cut, because he is much more valuable to this team than $200k in cap space. Next year, that may be a different story when the Panthers could conceivably save $2.8 million by designating him as a June 1 cut. He certainly won't see the 2015 year of his contract. I guess you thought you had me backed into a corner here or something (not really sure what your motive is), but cutting DeAngelo Williams this season makes zero sense from a financial standpoint, and anyone who proposed it as a viable solution at any time was speaking out of ignorance.
    That is not correct if we make him a post June 1st cut we will save 3.4 Million this year. That greatly helps our immediate future. So to correct what you said "So no, I don't support DeAngelo Williams being cut this year, even as a June 1 cut, because he is much more valuable to this team than $3.4M in cap space". In my opinion no he is not more valuable to the team than 3.4M in cap space. Stewart is a starting running back and is more consistent than Williams plus we have Tolbert. We could use that money to help with the Oline, DT, draft picks, or roll it into 2014.

    Also you made the statement saying "cutting DeAngelo Williams this season makes zero sense from a financial standpoint, and anyone who proposed it as a viable solution at any time was speaking out of ignorance". I hate to have to inform you but according to your own statement you are speaking out of ignorance from a financial standpoint. There are multiple reports saying we will save 3.4M in cap space this season so the logical assumption would be that you are wrong. Not trying to start something just trying to point out some inaccuracy's in your statement.

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    Homestar and manbearchef, those contracts seem reasonable given the current market for DEs. Next year's market will probably see higher prices for DEs, so that throws an interesting twist in the mix. Even if Gross, Beason, and Williams all restructure, we still need to sign our draft picks, so we can't go too crazy with Hardy's 2013 salary. To that end, I prefer Homestar's contract of the two. Gettleman also seems to be a fan of the "option bonus", which could allow us to defer some guaranteed money until later in the contract, further easing the cap hit in earlier years.

    The numbers I'm seeing for Williams this season are:
    $4.75m salary
    $16m signing bonus, amortizing over 5 years ($3.2m per year)

    I'm not sure when current year salaries start to irrevocably count towards the cap, but I was under the impression that cutting a player at this point would drop his salary for the current year entirely. So we would save $4.75m right off the top this year. At $3.2m/year for 3 years, we would still take a cap hit of $9.6m from his signing bonus. As far as I know, the only things the June 1 designation mean are:

    - He counts against our salary cap until then.
    - We can to amortize that $9.6m over 2 years instead of taking it all this year.

    So here's how I see it:
    - If we keep Deangelo for 2013, he costs us $7.95m in cap space.
    - If we cut him now, he costs us $9.6m in cap space (we lose $1.65m in cap space).
    - If we designate him as a June 1 cut, he costs us $4.8m in cap space (we gain $3.15m in cap space).

    Here's how it looks next year:
    $5.75m salary
    $6.4m signing bonus remaining

    - If we keep Deangelo for 2014, he costs us $8.95 in cap space.
    - If we cut him before June 1, he costs us $6.4m in cap space (we gain $2.55m in cap space).
    - If we designate him as a June 1 cut, he costs us $3.2m in cap space (we gain $5.75m in cap space).

    In 2015, he would be scheduled to make $6.75m salary with a signing bonus hit of $3.2, totaling $9.95 in cap space. He'll be 32 heading into the 2015 season, so if he still has juice in the tank, he would have to restructure to play out his career in Carolina. With a little one to care for at home, I'd be surprised if he doesn't simply decide to retire a Panther before 2015, leaving $6.75m on the table.

    That said, is Williams worth what we're paying him in the meantime ($3.15m)? Absolutely. He is, without a doubt, the best runningback on this team. He's also been much healthier than Stewart over the last several years. I'm praying that Stewart's off-season surgery will help him get over his injury history, but the team would be short-sighted indeed to part ways with Williams before they know Stewart can stay healthy.
    Last edited by N.E.PanthersFan; 03-18-2013 at 08:07 PM.

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    I just hope it isn't a distraction during the season.

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    Trust me he will demand the same deal as Charles Johnson, which we want pay and we will lose him just like Peppers. He is my 2nd favorite player on the Panthers but we can't afford to have 2 high paid DE's.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaFan87 View Post
    That is not correct if we make him a post June 1st cut we will save 3.4 Million this year. That greatly helps our immediate future. So to correct what you said "So no, I don't support DeAngelo Williams being cut this year, even as a June 1 cut, because he is much more valuable to this team than $3.4M in cap space". In my opinion no he is not more valuable to the team than 3.4M in cap space. Stewart is a starting running back and is more consistent than Williams plus we have Tolbert. We could use that money to help with the Oline, DT, draft picks, or roll it into 2014.

    Also you made the statement saying "cutting DeAngelo Williams this season makes zero sense from a financial standpoint, and anyone who proposed it as a viable solution at any time was speaking out of ignorance". I hate to have to inform you but according to your own statement you are speaking out of ignorance from a financial standpoint. There are multiple reports saying we will save 3.4M in cap space this season so the logical assumption would be that you are wrong. Not trying to start something just trying to point out some inaccuracy's in your statement.
    Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but they're absolutely wrong. We would not save $3.4 million in cap space. Whoever is reporting that simply does not understand NFL salary cap procedures. I would actually like to see a link to these sources so I can discount them in the future.

    I am certainly not speaking out of ignorance. I actually do understand how the salary cap works in the NFL. If you cut a player, the entirety of the prorated signing bonus hits your cap that year. That means you have three years of prorated signing bonus, or $9.6 million, hitting the cap this year if you cut him. If you designate as a June 1 cut, that total hit is spread over two years instead of one, so it would be $4.8 million over the next two years instead of $9.6 million this season only.

    The math those incorrect sources are using is this: They're only observing the $3.2 million from this year, and splitting that in two. In that instance, their numbers are $5 million - $1.6 million = $3.4 million. However, this is 100% wrong, and whoever is reporting this is ignorant. So, please, link me to these people so I can start discounting what they have to say. I'm sure the bumbling idiot Joe Person probably reported this at some point.





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