Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,187
    vCash
    1500

    Cardinals and Rangers

    Rangers Receive:
    Buster Bluth - SP - R
    Drew Pomeranz - SP - MLB
    Hyo-Kon Hong - SP - AAA
    Nationals 2018 1st Round Pick

    Cardinals receive:
    Miguel Sosa - SS - MLB
    Adrian Moreno - 1B - A
    Rangers 2018 1st Round Pick
    Rangers 2018 2nd Round Pick
    Rangers 2018 3rd Round Pick
    32 Points

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Jordan
    Posts
    34,203
    vCash
    1500
    Texas Rangers Accept.

    I have a surplus of hitting specs but no pitching whatsoever. I fill in a good amount of holes this way. Plus I get to move Zoidberg to SS and double his value.

    Chicago Bears #23
    Kyle "Cheetah" Fuller

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,187
    vCash
    1500
    And the Cardinals accept for the opposite reason: Surplus of pitching, lack of hitting. This also gives me 100 points.

    Good luck to the Rangers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    19,805
    vCash
    1500
    I'm going to have to think about this.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,187
    vCash
    1500
    Here's my logic if it helps:

    Bluth is comparable to the fifth round pick - even though the development will be a little behind.

    Pomeranz, Hong and the ~27th pick for Sosa, Moreno, 2nd and 3rd round picks, and 32 points seems fair because of a few reasons.

    • Hong doesn't have a place on my team.
    • I need a SS/2B, which Sosa fills, and I'm trying to put an emphasis on defense. Offensively, though he won't be a beast, I like his skill set enough. Not looking for power out of this bat, especially in my park.
    • I need a 1B, which Moreno fits. Even though he won't be great defensively, it's at 1B which doesn't seem like a huge deal. He should be a good bat. I like that he hits lefty. If I need to trade him later to an AL team, so be it.
    • Losing Pomeranz kind of hurts me this year, but not significantly. He's replaceable. Not a huge fan.
    • The 27th pick should net probably a 60ish overall player with a skill set I don't like.
    • I actually receive the pick 8 after my first round pick, making that even less of a significant loss. Overall, the second and third round picks probably won't give me anything worthwhile.
    • 32 points brings me to 100, which is nice to be able to give a player a new pitch! Haha.

    I like the trade because I'm dealing from strength to fill weaknesses. I'm curious why you think it's vetoable, because you're very good at evaluating players in this.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    19,805
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Pittz View Post
    Here's my logic if it helps:

    Bluth is comparable to the fifth round pick - even though the development will be a little behind.
    Which is part of the problem. If you plan on competing within the next year, the guy who's more developed is better for you.

    That's not why I think it's vetoable though. I'll get into that.

    Pomeranz, Hong and the ~27th pick for Sosa, Moreno, 2nd and 3rd round picks, and 32 points seems fair because of a few reasons.

    • Hong doesn't have a place on my team.
    Really? Hong might be your #2 starter within the next year. Better than Pomeranz. And he's only 22. He's far better than Sosa or the 1B.

    • I need a SS/2B, which Sosa fills, and I'm trying to put an emphasis on defense. Offensively, though he won't be a beast, I like his skill set enough. Not looking for power out of this bat, especially in my park.
    Making a move to fill a need for a team competing next year is crazy. No offense. I understand you need a SS, but Sosa isn't that good. I'd be amazed if he posted a 750 OPS vs RHP which is 75% of the pitching. Great D, but not very valuable in this deal. You can do better, especially given what you're willing to trade.

    I should add that originally I didn't notice you were offering a first round pick, which means I'm going to have to veto it.

    • I need a 1B, which Moreno fits. Even though he won't be great defensively, it's at 1B which doesn't seem like a huge deal. He should be a good bat. I like that he hits lefty. If I need to trade him later to an AL team, so be it.
    Which is fine. Except Moreno's not a top 10 1B. Pomeranz and the other SP you gave up are more valuable than him. Good hitter, but he's just an average 1B.

    • Losing Pomeranz kind of hurts me this year, but not significantly. He's replaceable. Not a huge fan.
    Can't say I agree with that. He's at worst a #3 SP, and a guy you want around on a competitive team. He isn't replaceable, and he's more valuable to you than that SS or the average 1B prospect.

    • The 27th pick should net probably a 60ish overall player with a skill set I don't like.
    I don't disagree with that, but the fact of the matter is the 3 SP's you gave up are more valuable than the #5 pick, Sosa, and the 1B. Adding the 27th pick is crazy. You're overpaying for something you've convinced yourself that you need.

    By making this trade you fill one need (SS), lose 2 of your best non-Cramer SP's, and make yourself a team that's looking further into the future as the 5th pick and 1B won't be ready by 2019. If you're competing for 2019, you're better off with the players you traded.

    • I actually receive the pick 8 after my first round pick, making that even less of a significant loss. Overall, the second and third round picks probably won't give me anything worthwhile.
    You have the 8th pick regardless of whether you make this trade, so it's irrelevant to this trade.

    • 32 points brings me to 100, which is nice to be able to give a player a new pitch! Haha.
    Sadly, that player won't be as good as the 2 SP's you gave up.

    I like the trade because I'm dealing from strength to fill weaknesses. I'm curious why you think it's vetoable, because you're very good at evaluating players in this.
    Here's how I see the value of every player in this trade:

    Bluth > 5th > Hong > Pomeranz > 1B > Sosa > 27th pick > 32 points > 2nd > 3rd

    The only player going your way that's more valuable than Hong or Pomeranz is the 5th. I think you're giving up a lot, and you've made your team worse. I think you have a better shot of competing this year and in the future with Hong & Pomeranz in your rotation than Sosa/1B/5th pick years down the line.

    If Doog/Strife pass the trade then that's fine, but I have to veto it. My opinion, is you're giving up way too much value and making yourself worse now and in the future. I don't think you appreciate the SP you're giving up, and I think you're overvaluing the chances of your current relief corp in your rotation. They'd be #5 types, compared to the #2/3 you gave up. You'd probably have the best (or one of the best anyways) rotations in the division with Cramer/Bluth/Hong/Pomeranz as your top 4 as early as 2020/2021.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,187
    vCash
    1500
    Interesting. Thank you for going so in depth. I'm fine with it being vetoed. Hopefully Ron will agree to renegotiate?

    Just to clarify, I don't mean I have current holes I need to fill at SS and 1B, but holes for my organization - nobody in the minors either. Of everything you said, I'm surprised you value Hong so highly.

    Really, thanks for evaluating it so in depth.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    19,805
    vCash
    1500
    No problem. From what I've been told I'm in the minority of people thinking it's a bad trade, but I owe it to you to let you know my thought process. I'm sure Doog/Strife will approve it. I've always been of the pitching first mentality, so that might be part of it too.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    12,187
    vCash
    1500
    Well, you pretty much convinced me Twitchy. I think I'd like to void the deal, if that's acceptable. So... could Doog/Strife veto it too please? Or can we just call it void?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    47,304
    vCash
    1500
    I can't veto this. That 1st rounder from Texas is probably worth all of the crap Texas got combined. Those pitchers are OK, but none of them are huge difference makers. Sorry but I have to pass this. I honestly don't even think Ronin is winning. He's not exactly losing. But it's a pretty even trade IMO.
    Last edited by Doogolas; 11-24-2010 at 10:48 PM.

    And then. He made them pancakes.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,692
    vCash
    1500
    Sorry, but I have to pass this. I'm not even sure you're losing this trade Pittz, let alone being ripped off.

    If you'd like I can go through it more, but I view our duty is to have the default be letting trades pass and only stepping in when there is a clear case of abuse.

    OOTP TKO League Milwaukee Brewers 2010-2032:
    2011-1655, .549 Win %
    10 NL Central Titles, 2 Wild Card 12 Total Playoff Appearances
    1 World Series Title (2021)



    Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet: I will end you.

    -Malcolm Reynolds


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    9,503
    vCash
    1500
    done

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •