Hollinger: Retire Joe's Number

[Bravo95]

Yesterday, John Hollinger said this:

RT @johnhollinger: Joe Johnson's No. 2 needs to go up in rafters at Philips. There should be no debate about this.

So after seeing the topic brought up again over on PH, I looked at some of the franchise records.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rs_career.html

The Hawks have only retired three numbers for playing careers: Pettit, Hudson, and 'Nique. Personally, I'd set the bar at something like (1) 10+ years with the team, (2) a good relationship with our fans, and (3) 70+ win shares, for analytics. Joe didn't meet any of those criteria. He helped get them from a laughing stock to a good five year run, but others have done that and he's outside of the Top 10 in franchise history by some stats we use to judge players today.

I say no, since other players like Mookie, Drew, and Doc had similar accomplishments and were actually loved by the fans but didn't get their jersey numbers retired. By the way, Josh has 43.4 WS in 8 seasons and Al has 34.5 WS in 4+ seasons, so both of them are on pace to reach all three criteria within the next five years, if they are still around.

[*Silver&Black*]

I would like for this to happen too, hence why I want to know how he plays the media on his time here (when he is finally introduced to the Nets media and speaks out about the trade). If he is respectful for the good he has done here, I hope everything can go smooth in the future with retiring his number, etc.

[jdiddy24]

I think if anyone we should put Danny Ferry up there in the rafters. Joe was hated by our fanbase... there is no reason for him to be up there.

[Atl Bill]

no, he didnt get past the 2nd round.

[bmac_121]

no, he didnt get past the 2nd round.

Neither did 'Nique...

I think his number should be hanging from the rafters too when its all said and done.

[Bravo95]

But 'Nique was/is LOVED by the fans, and was here for what 11 years? He also has a Hall of Fame career. Joe was only here for 7 years -- the fans never embraced him and vice versa. Like I said, other former Hawks had similar careers and the fans loved them but they didn't get their numbers retired, so I don't see why he should.

[ATL-ALL-DAY]

Nope, no, naw, nah, hell no, hell naw, hell nah, F--- no, sh-- no, God no, and any and all other variations and translations of the word NO!

No way in hell I want him in the same rafters as Pettite, Nique, & Hudson... Retire a jersey for Lenny Wilkins, Pistol Pete, Spudd, hell, even doc rivers! Lol

Matter of fact, retire a jersey for all of us fans who've had to deal with the same old Hawks bull---- for God knows how many years...

Joe already spit in our face by saying what he said about the fans, the hawks spit in our face by rewarding him with that contract and this would be an even bigger sea foam green gigantic loogey to the face if they retire Hoe's #.

[Bravo95]

Nope, no, naw, nah, hell no, hell naw, hell nah, F--- no, sh-- no, God no, and any and all other variations and translations of the word NO!

No way in hell I want him in the same rafters as Pettite, Nique, & Hudson... Retire a jersey for Lenny Wilkins, Pistol Pete, Spudd, hell, even doc rivers! Lol

Matter of fact, retire a jersey for all of us fans who've had to deal with the same old Hawks bull---- for God knows how many years...

That's a good point. Other teams retired numbers for their fans, who has taken more abuse than Hawks fans? What about those of us who stuck around through the 'Nique trade? Or the 13-win season? SHELDON WILLIAMS? We ain't asking for handouts, just some damn appreciation! lol

[Bravo95]

Top 20 Player Win Shares in Hawks franchise history:

LINK

1. B.Pettit 136.0 (HOF, number retired)
2. D.Wilkins 107.4 (HOF, number retired)
3. C.Hagan 75.1 (HOF)
4. L.Hudson 73.5 (number retired)
5. J.Drew 60.7
6. T.Rollins 58.8
7. M.Blaylock 58.4
8. Z.Beatty 55.9
9. K.Willis 54.2
10. D.Rivers 52.0
11. L.Wilkens 47.6 (HOF, number retired with Sonics)
12. D.Roundfield 45.9
13. J.Johnson 44.7
14. D.Mutombo 44.4
15. B.Bridges 43.9
16. J.Smith 43.4
17. E.Johnson 39.9
18. S.Smith 39.1
19. A.Horford 34.5
20. C.Levingston 32.2

[yakubripper]

This is preposterous! I didn't hate Joe, outside of that silly contract, but to retire his number is a bit absurd. Danny Ferry's maybe though...lol

[All day 89]

Man i dont understand why alot of people didnt like joe on the team i mean look at everything he has done he wasnt like ai and destoryed our team he didnt have off the court issues like kobe he didnt quit on his team like lebron when he was with clevland... This man came to atl when alot of collage teams were better than the hawks man the falcons and the hawks won the same amount of games did that fazed him no he just strapped it up and turned this francise around. He faced a double team every night he strapped it up and cover up the flaws in all the atl players game and still led us in points assists and steals untill this year and thats only cause he got hurt. He never made exuses when josh was still in devolpment nor when horford got here and got hurt or when j smoove quit on us during the playoffs or when j crawford was here he still got his numbers. assist and steals and all i see from you so call atl fans do is point out the negitive from three years ago when we lost to a great magic team when all they did was load up on joe. How many games joe won for us this year on last second shots would we still make the playoffs without joe. What about last year when he played the second half of the season with a broken elbow played tho double teams and still got his and help us win now we gonna take three steps back while joe gets into the eastern conf or even further cause now he got help. Its like watching nique get traded all over again and to be honest im happy for him at least he ll go and get treated like star he is and we will still be the one of the only teams that never one a championship

[All day 89]

Nope, no, naw, nah, hell no, hell naw, hell nah, F--- no, sh-- no, God no, and any and all other variations and translations of the word NO!

No way in hell I want him in the same rafters as Pettite, Nique, & Hudson... Retire a jersey for Lenny Wilkins, Pistol Pete, Spudd, hell, even doc rivers! Lol

Matter of fact, retire a jersey for all of us fans who've had to deal with the same old Hawks bull---- for God knows how many years...

Joe already spit in our face by saying what he said about the fans, the hawks spit in our face by rewarding him with that contract and this would be an even bigger sea foam green gigantic loogey to the face if they retire Hoe's #.

Yeah joe did say that one quote that it didnt matter if the fans come they still had to go out and play man and i cant even blame him on that have you ever been to a atl game man prob not man its crazy the fans here have booed us since 04 and cheer for the other team its embarassing to go to the game and see a crowd full of green or gold and yellow and you right about watching the same ol team but i feel they should have built around horford teague and joe and traded josh man i mean josh is tryna leave and when he im gonna see where the real fans are at

[ATL-ALL-DAY]

First of all, I've been a fan of any and all Atlanta teams since as long as I can remember... I've been to countless numbers of Hawks games, and again the reason other "fans" cheer for other teams is because Atlanta is a hot city where other folks have come to go to school and never left, or they started new life's/careers here so they bring their love for their team... And also bandwagon fans, funny how "hawks fans" sell out Philips during playoffs... But anyway, yeah, Joe DID quit in that blowout by 60+ points to the magic and that whole series he was "No Call/No Show Joe". And honestly, all it takes is one comment like that to ruin whatever fan support u would have gotten from me. Al, Josh, Jeff, or any other player could've said that and I'd feel the same way about them. Rule #1 as an athlete/entertainer you NEVER bad mouth the fans, without us , u have nothing. If/when Josh leaves, I'll miss the hell outta him in a Hawks jersey, but it is what it is, I love the HAWKS first, players 2nd.
Joe always carried himself like he was God's gift to Atlanta, well thankfully we kept the receipt and exchanged him for somethin else lol... If this many people disliked Joe and wanted him gone, it's obviously for a reason.. Fact is, myself, and these guys in this forum (and plenty of die hard fans in ATL and scattered across the U.S.) will ride or die for this team all day everyday and twice on Sunday.

[Bravo95]

No one is saying Joe was a bad player, he was part of the reason this team climbed out of the toilet in the first place and most fans recognize it. But the fact that he was so "quiet" and didn't WANT to become a fan favorite is why people didn't embrace him and part of why they didn't show up to games like they should have for a perennial playoff team. He wasn't an explosive athlete or have some great marketable personality -- people came to see Josh and Al for those reasons. Actually, you could argue that Jamal brought more electricity to the building than Joe did.

And that's before we get into the no-shows during playoff series, yes as the high paid player on the team. We expected more and didn't get it. 'Nique was a killer in the playoffs, he always went down shooting. Joe would let the team get embarrassed then give more embarrassing quotes in the postgame interview. Fans had no confidence in him and just got tired of it. Something had to change.