The "I don't buy all this advanced stats stuff!" Thread

[baller101200]

Honestly, it seems as if the only people who are "against" advanced statistics are the ones who's favorite players' weaknesses are exposed by the analysis (i.e. Melo fans, Monta Ells fans, Derrick Rose fans).

I'm relatively new to the whole "advanced statistics" scene, but I love them. It's like Hawkeye said, you have to be willing to embrace the factual evidence and profound analysis found in these stats.

[Basketash]

Don't really know if this falls in this thread but i have a request, to have more threads like the "Statistics 101: Possesions" so fans can become more aquainted with these stats and learn to use them in the proper way.

And my take on the thread is that, like it was said before, you have to watch the game and take a look in the stats to get the big picture.

[DenButsu]

Don't really know if this falls in this thread but i have a request, to have more threads like the "Statistics 101: Possesions" so fans can become more aquainted with these stats and learn to use them in the proper way.

I posted the "Primers" thread with hopes that it might be a starting introductory point for the uninitiated.

That said, I totally agree that more threads centered on specific stats where people can learn about and explore what they mean in depth is a great idea.

Really, I hope some of these will come from the people who have questions about them.

[Basketash]

I posted the "Primers" thread with hopes that it might be a starting introductory point for the uninitiated.

That said, I totally agree that more threads centered on specific stats where people can learn about and explore what they mean in depth is a great idea.

Really, I hope some of these will come from the people who have questions about them.

Yeah well this forum really got me exploring these advanced stats so i'll try and make one.

[lakers4sho]

Don't really know if this falls in this thread but i have a request, to have more threads like the "Statistics 101: Possesions" so fans can become more aquainted with these stats and learn to use them in the proper way.

Don't worry, more will be coming

I'm sorry, it's just that I've been busy lately, I'll probably add another 101 by the end of this week.

[Raidaz4Life]

I would be a lot more receptive to advanced statistics if the people who used them didn't throw them around thinking they were so much better than everyone else and had the secret answers that nobody else could understand. Advanced statistics are very helpful but just as open to misinterpretation as traditional statistics. There is nothing wrong with either form of statistics, they don't lie... they do exactly what they say they do. Its lazy people that skew their meaning by inferring things from them that they are not stating. For example... the most common would be people thinking that PPG= offensive ability or efficiency. PPG tells exactly what it says... how many points a player scores in a game but there are so many other factors involved in determining how valuable those points actually are to a team. The same goes for advanced statistics though. The big one with that one I seem to find it people throwing out me that player A has a higher AST% and therefore is a better passer. That is just as ignorant as saying a players PPG determines a players offensive ability. But of course people think that just because it is an advanced statistic it automatically tells the whole story when it doesn't.


Like I said I have been turned off to advanced statistics in the past which is why I rarely use them unless someone is dead set on bringing them out. Thats not to say I have a problem understanding them, I just find them to be a bit overrated in regards of what they are able to tell us. ESPECIALLY in regards to player comparisons.

[DenButsu]

I would be a lot more receptive to advanced statistics if the people who used them didn't throw them around thinking they were so much better than everyone else and had the secret answers that nobody else could understand. Advanced statistics are very helpful but just as open to misinterpretation as traditional statistics. There is nothing wrong with either form of statistics, they don't lie... they do exactly what they say they do. Its lazy people that skew their meaning by inferring things from them that they are not stating. For example... the most common would be people thinking that PPG= offensive ability or efficiency. PPG tells exactly what it says... how many points a player scores in a game but there are so many other factors involved in determining how valuable those points actually are to a team. The same goes for advanced statistics though. The big one with that one I seem to find it people throwing out me that player A has a higher AST% and therefore is a better passer. That is just as ignorant as saying a players PPG determines a players offensive ability. But of course people think that just because it is an advanced statistic it automatically tells the whole story when it doesn't.


Like I said I have been turned off to advanced statistics in the past which is why I rarely use them unless someone is dead set on bringing them out. Thats not to say I have a problem understanding them, I just find them to be a bit overrated in regards of what they are able to tell us. ESPECIALLY in regards to player comparisons.

I understand where you're coming from, and I've been there at times, too.

And I do think the people who are into this stuff, if they want to promote its usefulness, best serve the cause by being tolerant and patient with people who haven't caught on yet.

That said, there are those who stubbornly refuse to even open their minds to the possibility that better basketball analysis can be achieved through more modern stats that are efficiency based. And it can be frustrating - even maddening.

But I hope those people will come into this thread and post their doubts. And I hope those of us who disagree, rather than bashing them, will make such persuasive arguments that we'll bring them around to seeing the benefits.

[lakers4sho]

Yes, if people are doubting stats because of certain reasons, post those uncertainties here, and we'll try to help you out.

Remember we're all learning here. No one here knows everything, and from learning from our mistakes we all become better.

[Hawkeye15]

I would be a lot more receptive to advanced statistics if the people who used them didn't throw them around thinking they were so much better than everyone else and had the secret answers that nobody else could understand. Advanced statistics are very helpful but just as open to misinterpretation as traditional statistics. There is nothing wrong with either form of statistics, they don't lie... they do exactly what they say they do. Its lazy people that skew their meaning by inferring things from them that they are not stating. For example... the most common would be people thinking that PPG= offensive ability or efficiency. PPG tells exactly what it says... how many points a player scores in a game but there are so many other factors involved in determining how valuable those points actually are to a team. The same goes for advanced statistics though. The big one with that one I seem to find it people throwing out me that player A has a higher AST% and therefore is a better passer. That is just as ignorant as saying a players PPG determines a players offensive ability. But of course people think that just because it is an advanced statistic it automatically tells the whole story when it doesn't.


Like I said I have been turned off to advanced statistics in the past which is why I rarely use them unless someone is dead set on bringing them out. Thats not to say I have a problem understanding them, I just find them to be a bit overrated in regards of what they are able to tell us. ESPECIALLY in regards to player comparisons.

I can't begin to explain how much you are missing. Using a single advanced stat to prove something is subjective, depending, but you are in the dark without learning them. I have already stated this to you bro. When you peel the layers, you do indeed learn Melo isn't an elite player, Ellis is pretty bad, and Rose is not a top 6 PG. Those are facts. You can choose to acknowledge them, or ignore them. Up to you

[Basketash]

Don't worry, more will be coming

I'm sorry, it's just that I've been busy lately, I'll probably add another 101 by the end of this week.

Awesome, love your stuff.