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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcoll View Post
    It's important to note that I am not a member of the Tea Party. It doesn't take an admission to notice that the Tea Party is conservative.

    That is not to say that they are necessarily Republican. They will tend to be more Republican than anything else, which is to be expected since the Republican Party is the more conservative. So, it's not surprising that their views tend to line up. So, the Tea Party is probably a bunch of people identifying themselves as Republican, a bunch of people identifying themselves as Independent, and a few identifying themselves as Democrats.


    I think (and hope) that the economic conservatism is the dominant idea in this movement though.
    Exactly.

    I think this is the most effiecient common denominator between members of the tea party, as well as those who lean right who are not members of the tea party. We vary all over the baord on social issues, but economics tie them all together, from my vantage point anyway.

  2. #17
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    tea party is a movement not an organization
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  3. #18
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    the tea party seems like a mini-democratic party than anything else. lots of diverse groups trying to get along for the common good. as they see it at least. with all the internal stresses that make being a democrat so much fun. some of these groups probably are GOP creations, some are grassroots, some are probably fox news creations. wonder if any of them are palin campaign creations? or some other candidate? democrats should start their own tea party group.


  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAKERMANIA View Post
    So it is a conservative movement, and Republicans are supposed to be conservatives? so its a republican movement?

    I thought we agreed the two aren't synonymous.
    OK this is pretty easily explained. The Republicans where founded on and have a platform that is generally based in conservative ideology. They have drifted from that ideology therefore losing some of its base with the feeling that the party has moved away from them. Those people who make up the bulk of the Tea Party movement if pressed would consider themselves Republicans before Democrats. So no the two are not synonymous though they could be if the party started standing up again for fiscal conservatism.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    First a quick factual repair, you meant to say Medicare, not Medicaid. They are not the same program.
    Fair enough I admit I did not take the time to go back and find out the true name got a bit lazy there.

    Now the part that separates us. As you pointed out, TARP and Medicare Part D (that is is the technical name for the drug program) were completely created during the tenure of President George W Bush. There was relatively little passion exhibited by conservatives over this. There was some discussion, but no passion really, at least, none of major consequence. So, given your argument, where were the screaming people then? Why were they not calling for the impeachment of President Bush?
    I probably follow conservative talk/news more than you and did hear the rumblings and out right outrage over these programs. Granted it had not turned into a full out fire right at the start though those where the embers that got it started. One thing you have to take into account is the fact that conservatives had been severely behind the ball on organized protests compared to the liberal side. So it really did take longer to get up and going even if the outrage was already there. They generally made their displeasure known by not showing up to support or vote for the GOP. Which I still think is hurting them since many conservatives don't believe the GOP has learned its lesson on not being fiscally conservative. Which may explain why there is a huge disparity in campaign donations to the GOP. Though the massive out pouring of cash to O'Donnel.

    Secondly, the works of Freedom Works and Dick Armey, with major contributions by the Kochs are in fact real. I said in another post, that I don't think this is strictly a partisan activity, but frankly, I find the denial to be just as wrong.
    I don't disagree that they have given money though I am not certain how much sway they have over anything. It is such a scattered organization even if you can call it an organization at all that there isn't anyone to go and persuade towards a specific agenda. Though I can't say for sure either way on this because I don't know who they are giving money to and what it is being done with it.

    Finally, I do not find this to be a homogeneous movement based in economics. I find it to be a melding of economics and social causes, and to say it is an economic movement without the large inclusion of the social component is an incomplete description at best, and a false description at worst.

    One last thing, to say that there are Democrats (when the numbers I have read are 4%) is factually correct, but only at the margins. I will agree with that, when the GOP side of this board will say that bills are passing the Senate in a bi partisan manner when it is all Democrats with 4 Republicans. That is just a false description.
    This would be really hard to gauge what percentage are true Democrats showing up. I would bet the farther you went south and west the numbers would climb higher than it would when you stay north and move east around the major population centers. I would bet as a whole it rises above that 4% but probably not more than I would say a total of 15% or so.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  6. #21
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    CNN

    To be sure, the number of Democrats in the Tea Party movement is small. A recent CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll shows that while 96 percent of Tea Party activists identify themselves as either Republican or Independent, only 4 percent say they are Democrats.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  7. #22
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    i think that's a bit misleading Cab, yes only 4% are democrats, but I don't think you can lump indy's and republicans together.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by behindmydesk View Post
    i think that's a bit misleading Cab, yes only 4% are democrats, but I don't think you can lump indy's and republicans together.
    To add on to this how many of those who called themselves Independents now considered themselves Democrats in 2008? Party affiliation is on the decline with Independents on the rise with both parties have such abysmal approval ratings right now.
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  9. #24
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    So what if only 4% are Democrats? The point was that there are Democrats in the Tea Party. It was a response to the false, misleading claim of there being no Democrats at all in the Tea Party.

    hoosier's point is also quite valid. Those that still call themselves Democrats today in the face of how negative the Democratic party is perceived in the general public these days probably aren't saying that lightly. So to have 4% of the Tea Party calling themselves Democrats is actually pretty significant.
    Last edited by DodgersFan28; 09-20-2010 at 04:18 AM.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    So what if only 4% are Democrats? The point was that there are Democrats in the Tea Party. It was a response to the false, misleading claim of there being no Democrats at all in the Tea Party.

    hoosier's point is also quite valid. Those that still call themselves Democrats today in the face of how negative the Democratic party is perceived in the general public these days probably aren't saying that lightly. So to have 4% of the Tea Party calling themselves Democrats is actually pretty significant.
    They must be really spurned democrats because there is a reason that no one is running as a tea party candidate under the democratic party umbrella. The reason being, that democrats do believe that the federal government has a role to play in our lives. For instance, thank god for the federal government in the civil rights movement. The tea party and conservatives have tried to hijack the civil rights movement as a state's rights movement, when in fact it was an appeal to the federal government to step in and attempt to level the playing field.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    So what if only 4% are Democrats? The point was that there are Democrats in the Tea Party. It was a response to the false, misleading claim of there being no Democrats at all in the Tea Party.

    hoosier's point is also quite valid. Those that still call themselves Democrats today in the face of how negative the Democratic party is perceived in the general public these days probably aren't saying that lightly. So to have 4% of the Tea Party calling themselves Democrats is actually pretty significant.
    I dont think anybody ever argued that a Democrat has never attended a Tea Party rally, but the point is it was created, is funded, endorsed, and all their political speakers are Republicans. It's made up of a vast majority of Republicans. Their points echo GOP talking points. They're anti-government...but only as soon as a Democrat took the Executive office. Where were these clowns after the Patriot Act, Bush bailouts, no-bid contracts in Iraq, etc.?

    All the proof is there, and you can't fool me by saying this is just some sporatic, grass-roots movement. Although some people, many who attend, probably believe this...I'm not buying it.

    I posed the question, has the Tea Party ever endorsed a Democrat? To no avail...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoosiercubsfan
    Schmooze I do not understand why you continually ask these types of questions. Regardless of the answers your given you are just not going to accept them as fact.
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze
    I posed the question, has the Tea Party ever endorsed a Democrat? To no avail...
    Have you researched to try to find one? I came up with one pretty quickly. Meet Mike Oliverio (towards the bottom) - Tea Party endorsed - Democratic nominee for West Virginia's 1st Congressional District, according to the source.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze
    Where were these clowns after the Patriot Act, Bush bailouts, no-bid contracts in Iraq, etc.
    The Patriot Act? Really? The Patriot Act has had so much bipartisan support since it was originally passed. Only the fringe left ever really opposed it. To expect any current member of the Tea Party to have opposed then is highly unlikely in my estimation.

    Bush bailouts? What are those exactly? TARP? The vast majority of conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, and just about everyone cringed at TARP when it was first proposed. I remember many people saying Bush was finally off completely off his rocker with that one, but then we all, and I mean everyone, bought the line that without TARP, the economy would suffer almost total collapse. It's still a successful selling speech, as unprovable as it is.

    I'd continue but you keep echoing the notion that you're not listening anymore. You've concluded that these are "clowns" who are all Republicans, even the Democrats, and just spout GOP talking points, even though Tea Party candidates have already defeated Republican incumbents and establishment candidates in GOP Primaries. If you want to continue in your certainties, feel free, but I think you'll find yourself rather lonely.
    Last edited by DodgersFan28; 09-20-2010 at 09:55 AM.
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  13. #28
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    The Patriot Act is a bad example, because as DF said, it was extremely bipartisan. Now you could argue that was 100% fear (and i think you would be right), but that one the blame goes both ways. Now to the stronger point about the Patriot Act, it has really only been democrats calling to repeal it.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    I dont think anybody ever argued that a Democrat has never attended a Tea Party rally, but the point is it was created, is funded, endorsed, and all their political speakers are Republicans. It's made up of a vast majority of Republicans. Their points echo GOP talking points. They're anti-government...but only as soon as a Democrat took the Executive office. Where were these clowns after the Patriot Act, Bush bailouts, no-bid contracts in Iraq, etc.?

    All the proof is there, and you can't fool me by saying this is just some sporatic, grass-roots movement. Although some people, many who attend, probably believe this...I'm not buying it.

    I posed the question, has the Tea Party ever endorsed a Democrat? To no avail...
    I answered this for you but again you chose to ignore it. Again why do you bother when your not willing to acknowledge responses?
    French writer Alexis de Tocqueville warned about when visiting this fledgling democracy in the early 19th century that this "American republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    .



    Have you researched to try to find one? I came up with one pretty quickly. Meet Mike Oliverio (towards the bottom) - Tea Party endorsed - Democratic nominee for West Virginia's 1st Congressional District, according to the source.
    And yet we still wind up with this for that district: http://wvgazette.com/News/201009140998
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