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  1. #46
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    A bit of light on this, the deficit, in the first full fiscal year of the Obama administration, is down 8% in the first 6 months from a year ago.

    Second, what strawman? That you implicit in your question is that national debt that is never paid off is bad? One need not answer loaded questions like your to point out that they are loaded. When you start with a supposition, that borrowing goes on forever, that the GDP over an extended period of time will not rise, it is a loaded question. Countries carry debt service, Corporations carry debt. These debt rise and fall, but tend to never be paid in full.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    So since cab made up a straw man to respond to instead of the actual question I asked, and ari thinks of everyone else's debt in order to feel better about ours, I guess the answer to my question is that there is no backup plan for when the spending doesn't cause an increase in growth.

    Interesting seeing as the current spending only led to tepid growth for a small bit, and isn't leading to any sort of growth any longer. Hmm. Bringing me back to my original question to all of you - when the spending fails, what is the alternative besides more spending?
    From the fiscal side, there is no alternative to spending. That's how our economy works. Did you read my post? When consumption declines (as it has), investment and government spending have to pick up the pace. Obviously government spending isn't going to do nearly as much good as consumption since it's a much smaller piece of the puzzle. But since our economic system is circular, we can't afford to let a downturn drag everything down. Therefore, government spending is needed to fill the void.

    Sometimes monetary policy is strong enough by itself to avoid massive government spending. Unfortunately, 9/11 and slow growth last decade forced the Fed to cut rates so low that they never got a chance to rebound. So when the recession hit, there really was no wiggle room with the interest rates. Therefore, the only thing the Fed could do at that point was start buying up t-bills to inject more cash into the system. That too was a stimulus of some sort.

    With all the actions we've taken so far, the right question to ask is just how bad could it have gotten had we not acted? Would this have been a repeat of the Great Depression when Hoover failed to act? Quite possibly, yes.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    A bit of light on this, the deficit, in the first full fiscal year of the Obama administration, is down 8% in the first 6 months from a year ago.

    Second, what strawman? That you implicit in your question is that national debt that is never paid off is bad? One need not answer loaded questions like your to point out that they are loaded. When you start with a supposition, that borrowing goes on forever, that the GDP over an extended period of time will not rise, it is a loaded question. Countries carry debt service, Corporations carry debt. These debt rise and fall, but tend to never be paid in full.
    This whole thing reminds me of the fake crisis with the stock market when Obama was elected. The market fell a few 100 points after he was elected and the right-wing talking heads started screaming about Armageddon. It's the same thing here. I would bet anything that if we had a President McCain who also unrolled a stimulus package, you wouldn't be hearing a peep from 90% of these people.

    EDIT:
    Actually you might here something like this: http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/20...-bush-to-fail/ Just with McCain in place of Bush. You know like how the Dems are putting this out about the GOP now: http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._06/024428.php

    While I don't doubt that some people are hoping for failure from one side or the other I still believe that each side simply has a different view of how to fix things. Unfortunately, hysteria, as witnessed in this thread and the other, appear to have drowned out the desire to help the economy on either side.
    Last edited by ari1013; 09-14-2010 at 03:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Madison
    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
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  4. #49
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    It seems that what we need is two things, the consumer to go back to work, and the administration to inspire a little consumer confidence.

    I would say at the present time the administration is failing at both....

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