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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    The point is that no one appears to want to stop the endless increase in debt, both total and annual, and it must stop if the country is to survive long term.
    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    Considering the debt nearly tripled under Bush, I beg to differ.
    Let's say for example the national debt when Bush took office was one US dollar. You say the debt tripled during Bush's eight years in office, that means Bush leaves office with a national debt of three dollars.

    Along comes Obama and quadruples that debt in just 19 months? That makes the national debt 12 US dollars? The net change of debt under Bush was 2 dollars but the net change for Obama is 9 dollars? Last I checked 9>3.

    I guess Obama has his work cut out for him or his legacy will be that he allowed the next president to inherit the largest national debt in our history.

  2. #17
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    But Obama didnt quadruple the debt Bush had so the example seems pretty bad

  3. #18
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    Then what happened to the debt when Bush left office, seems to a lay person that there's something fishy about the accounting here.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    But Obama didnt quadruple the debt Bush had so the example seems pretty bad
    Bush vs. Obama Deficit




    Major props to rdwilliamson

  5. #20
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    The graph looks as if it sells my point. But wait, maybe those aren't real numbers......

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    But it's all Obama's fault right? Let's forget about the fact that the debt jumps insanely under every president through good and bad economies. And let's just blame the one guy who's had the worst economy in decades for it.
    And let's be more concerned about a juvenile blame game than we are about the f**king problem.

    At this point, it doesn't matter who did what in the past. Someone - I don't care if it's Obama, Bush, Superman, or the Tooth Fairy - needs to actually solve the problem.

    Unless we're out to commit collective financial suicide, this endless increase of annual and total debt MUST STOP.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  7. #22
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    ^ You are correct, but Obama and his supporters usually fire the first salvo anytime this subject is brought up. Let's face it, the White House and Capitol Hill are less interested in the tab they are running up than the clock that is ticking down to the November election.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski
    Let's face it, the White House and Capitol Hill are less interested in the tab they are running up than the clock that is ticking down to the November election.
    ...and one day they'll figure out that fixing the aforementioned problem is the magic ticket to really never having to worry about getting elected, or re-elected.
    "If [Republicans] were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the Flat Earth Society." -- Pres. Barack Obama

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubsrule View Post
    Debt and Defecit arent the same thing

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrice9 View Post
    Debt and Defecit arent the same thing
    Correct. A deficit is an annual assessment of money spent compared to revenue. The debt is the accumulation of many deficits. We have had some years with little or no deficit in our lifetime, but we have never not had a national debt.
    Last edited by desertrat218; 09-13-2010 at 04:21 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by corralski View Post
    Then what happened to the debt when Bush left office, seems to a lay person that there's something fishy about the accounting here.
    I misspoke earlier. The tripling was the government expenditure under Bush.

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ebt_histo5.htm

    There's our national debt by year.

    When Obama was elected the debt had just topped $10T. Today it's over $13T.

    That's a $3T increase or about $1.5T per year. By comparison, when the economy had turned down under Bush we saw a $1.25T increase in the national debt.

    Again, I acknowledge the number is bigger now but I ask where was the outrage in 2007 or 2008? Why did it wait until 2009 and 2010?

    EDIT:
    Here's a link to a great graph that shows where the bloating under Obama came from: http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/...erexpandi.html. I wish they went further back so we could see the same blip each time there's a census, but this is good enough.
    Last edited by ari1013; 09-13-2010 at 04:22 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertrat218 View Post
    Incorrect. A deficit is an annual assessment of money spent compared to revenue. The debt is the accumulation of many deficits. We have had some years with little or no deficit in our lifetime, but we have never not had a national debt.
    So then he was correct, right? They aren't the same thing.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DodgersFan28 View Post
    And let's be more concerned about a juvenile blame game than we are about the f**king problem.

    At this point, it doesn't matter who did what in the past. Someone - I don't care if it's Obama, Bush, Superman, or the Tooth Fairy - needs to actually solve the problem.

    Unless we're out to commit collective financial suicide, this endless increase of annual and total debt MUST STOP.
    The problem is when the debt:GDP ratio is so high that it leads to massive inflation of the currency. Again though, we're not anywhere near that point. As long as we keep teetering in and out of deflation, it's important for us to NOT start paying off the national debt. If we do that we'll go further into deflation and that's a terrible thing for economic growth. Stop thinking about this as if it's a guy with a big credit card bill. That analogy doesn't work here. Take a look at what happened in the Great Depression when they started paying off debts while the economy was still banged up. We double-dipped. That's not the type of solution to the problem that anybody would want -- be it Bush, Obama, Superman, or a poster on here.
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    "Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives."
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ari1013 View Post
    So then he was correct, right? They aren't the same thing.
    My bad, i thought he said "are the same", I misread it.

  15. #30
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    Maybe I'm being too simplistic here but isn't it all just money we don't have?

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