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View Poll Results: Who has had the better career?

Voters
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  • Johan Santana

    13 22.81%
  • Roy Halladay

    44 77.19%
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Results 16 to 30 of 37
  1. #16
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    I used to argue hard for Santana based on how did once he became a SP through 2008. However, given the AL East vs. AL Central and NL East, it's closer to even then the raw stats would indicate.

    However from here on, I think Halladay has a big edge:

    more relaxed delivery, much larger frame, more repeatable mechanics, less injuries. Santana has been ebbing since 2008 (see his K/BB ratios), the brilliant years likely behind him. The IP per season dropping.

    Halladay had his problems in '04 and '05, but since then:

    IP -- ERA+

    220 - 143
    225 - 121
    246 - 152
    239 - 156
    221 - 175

    OTOH over the same time frame, Santana

    233 - 162
    219 - 129
    234 - 166
    166 - 132
    199 - 135

    Doc could be done tomorrow, you never know, but if Vegas is giving odds I know where my money is going. Also not sure if Santana really is 22 months younger then Halladay.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Halladay had his problems in '04 and '05
    I wouldn't say that Halladay had problems in '05 since his season ended on a freak accident..

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I used to argue hard for Santana based on how did once he became a SP through 2008. However, given the AL East vs. AL Central and NL East, it's closer to even then the raw stats would indicate.

    However from here on, I think Halladay has a big edge:

    more relaxed delivery, much larger frame, more repeatable mechanics, less injuries. Santana has been ebbing since 2008 (see his K/BB ratios), the brilliant years likely behind him. The IP per season dropping.

    Halladay had his problems in '04 and '05, but since then:

    IP -- ERA+

    220 - 143
    225 - 121
    246 - 152
    239 - 156
    221 - 175

    OTOH over the same time frame, Santana

    233 - 162
    219 - 129
    234 - 166
    166 - 132
    199 - 135

    Doc could be done tomorrow, you never know, but if Vegas is giving odds I know where my money is going. Also not sure if Santana really is 22 months younger then Halladay.
    Do you always say that last line when comparing a player from a former country?
    Adam Wainwright
    Cards Sig Game

    4-1 (5 starts), 37.0 IP, 8.51 K/9, 2.19 BB/9, 1.46 ERA, 2.22 FIP, 42 -ERA, 61 -FIP

  4. #19
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    johan but id rather have halladays type carrer with all those cg and that perpect game

  5. #20
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    Biased towards Halladay but the numbers he put up in the AL East were pretty remarkable. I also do not like being one to knock on my Jays but there were plenty of nights where he deserved the win but the bats never showed up. Halladay is also pure class and his work ethic is unmatched. When it is this close I will take that anyday and twice on Sunday.

  6. #21
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    Give me Halladay or give me death!

  7. #22
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    19 to 4 is a joke.

    Santana has a better career ERA, WHIP, K/9, K/BB and H/9

    Also, he dominated the AL in a greater fashion than Halladay did.

    Regardless of the division Santana was still the best pitcher in the AL in the middle 2000s.

    I can see people voting for Halladay, but if you actually look at the careers there isnt a chance in hell it should be that lopsided.
    Son, you just don't get it, i'm talking bout the TWTW!

  8. #23
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    tough one.... both have great stats... but i hate the fact that as an "ace", you can't count on Johan to ever go 9 innings... its so rare that he completes a game... when they are both retired you are going to see it pretty lopsided in the favor of halladay in my opinion.... he has more secondary pitches... now that johan's fastball isn't what it used to be, it has effected how hitters view his change up... plus his fastball and his changeup are both straight, but i should mentioned deadly accurate... i don't like stuff that stays straight once the spread on the MPH gets tighter....
    no frills, no avatars, nothing but pure unadulterated yankee talk mixed in with some sox hatred....

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitesoxfan83 View Post
    19 to 4 is a joke.

    Santana has a better career ERA, WHIP, K/9, K/BB and H/9

    Also, he dominated the AL in a greater fashion than Halladay did.

    Regardless of the division Santana was still the best pitcher in the AL in the middle 2000s.

    I can see people voting for Halladay, but if you actually look at the careers there isnt a chance in hell it should be that lopsided.
    Halladay basically has 2-3 great seasons over Santana, it isn't a joke.

    Santana is playing catch up with Halladay, and Halladay is better currently over Santana moving toward the future, which other posters have explained.

    Either way, it is a good comparison, and they aren't that far off
    Adam Wainwright
    Cards Sig Game

    4-1 (5 starts), 37.0 IP, 8.51 K/9, 2.19 BB/9, 1.46 ERA, 2.22 FIP, 42 -ERA, 61 -FIP

  10. #25
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    Basically, Halladay has 300 more innings at the same effective ratesand their era's, WHIP, k/bb ratio are very very close, and are within a few good/bad games and they are tied...that is how close they are.
    Adam Wainwright
    Cards Sig Game

    4-1 (5 starts), 37.0 IP, 8.51 K/9, 2.19 BB/9, 1.46 ERA, 2.22 FIP, 42 -ERA, 61 -FIP

  11. #26
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    halladay b/c he was never a met

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDMac80 View Post
    halladay b/c he was never a met
    This does a better job of explaining the current standings of this pole than any other argument presented.

    Sadly.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Do you always say that last line when comparing a player from a former country?
    former or foreign? And yes, frequently I do when it comes to areas known to have poor record keeping and/or manipulation to alter the dates for competitive advantage.

    BTW, with the news of Santana's operation, the answer to this thread is now clear.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  14. #29
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    LOL. great thread poll right when johan goes down for the season. what did you think the results would be?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by #27in2007 View Post
    tough one.... both have great stats... but i hate the fact that as an "ace", you can't count on Johan to ever go 9 innings... its so rare that he completes a game... when they are both retired you are going to see it pretty lopsided in the favor of halladay in my opinion.... he has more secondary pitches... now that johan's fastball isn't what it used to be, it has effected how hitters view his change up... plus his fastball and his changeup are both straight, but i should mentioned deadly accurate... i don't like stuff that stays straight once the spread on the MPH gets tighter....
    Johan had 3 straight complete games.
    Last edited by jetsfan28; 09-13-2010 at 10:03 AM. Reason: First part not necessary

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