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View Poll Results: Who has had the better career?

Voters
57. You may not vote on this poll
  • Johan Santana

    13 22.81%
  • Roy Halladay

    44 77.19%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    42,232
    I used to argue hard for Santana based on how did once he became a SP through 2008. However, given the AL East vs. AL Central and NL East, it's closer to even then the raw stats would indicate.

    However from here on, I think Halladay has a big edge:

    more relaxed delivery, much larger frame, more repeatable mechanics, less injuries. Santana has been ebbing since 2008 (see his K/BB ratios), the brilliant years likely behind him. The IP per season dropping.

    Halladay had his problems in '04 and '05, but since then:

    IP -- ERA+

    220 - 143
    225 - 121
    246 - 152
    239 - 156
    221 - 175

    OTOH over the same time frame, Santana

    233 - 162
    219 - 129
    234 - 166
    166 - 132
    199 - 135

    Doc could be done tomorrow, you never know, but if Vegas is giving odds I know where my money is going. Also not sure if Santana really is 22 months younger then Halladay.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    16,372
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Halladay had his problems in '04 and '05
    I wouldn't say that Halladay had problems in '05 since his season ended on a freak accident..

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    48,831
    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I used to argue hard for Santana based on how did once he became a SP through 2008. However, given the AL East vs. AL Central and NL East, it's closer to even then the raw stats would indicate.

    However from here on, I think Halladay has a big edge:

    more relaxed delivery, much larger frame, more repeatable mechanics, less injuries. Santana has been ebbing since 2008 (see his K/BB ratios), the brilliant years likely behind him. The IP per season dropping.

    Halladay had his problems in '04 and '05, but since then:

    IP -- ERA+

    220 - 143
    225 - 121
    246 - 152
    239 - 156
    221 - 175

    OTOH over the same time frame, Santana

    233 - 162
    219 - 129
    234 - 166
    166 - 132
    199 - 135

    Doc could be done tomorrow, you never know, but if Vegas is giving odds I know where my money is going. Also not sure if Santana really is 22 months younger then Halladay.
    Do you always say that last line when comparing a player from a former country?

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    connecticut
    Posts
    24,902
    johan but id rather have halladays type carrer with all those cg and that perpect game

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    187
    Biased towards Halladay but the numbers he put up in the AL East were pretty remarkable. I also do not like being one to knock on my Jays but there were plenty of nights where he deserved the win but the bats never showed up. Halladay is also pure class and his work ethic is unmatched. When it is this close I will take that anyday and twice on Sunday.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Thousand Oaks, CA
    Posts
    1,687
    Give me Halladay or give me death!

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    14,970
    19 to 4 is a joke.

    Santana has a better career ERA, WHIP, K/9, K/BB and H/9

    Also, he dominated the AL in a greater fashion than Halladay did.

    Regardless of the division Santana was still the best pitcher in the AL in the middle 2000s.

    I can see people voting for Halladay, but if you actually look at the careers there isnt a chance in hell it should be that lopsided.
    Son, you just don't get it, i'm talking bout TWTW!

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,122
    tough one.... both have great stats... but i hate the fact that as an "ace", you can't count on Johan to ever go 9 innings... its so rare that he completes a game... when they are both retired you are going to see it pretty lopsided in the favor of halladay in my opinion.... he has more secondary pitches... now that johan's fastball isn't what it used to be, it has effected how hitters view his change up... plus his fastball and his changeup are both straight, but i should mentioned deadly accurate... i don't like stuff that stays straight once the spread on the MPH gets tighter....
    no frills, no avatars, nothing but pure unadulterated yankee talk mixed in with some sox hatred....

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    48,831
    Quote Originally Posted by whitesoxfan83 View Post
    19 to 4 is a joke.

    Santana has a better career ERA, WHIP, K/9, K/BB and H/9

    Also, he dominated the AL in a greater fashion than Halladay did.

    Regardless of the division Santana was still the best pitcher in the AL in the middle 2000s.

    I can see people voting for Halladay, but if you actually look at the careers there isnt a chance in hell it should be that lopsided.
    Halladay basically has 2-3 great seasons over Santana, it isn't a joke.

    Santana is playing catch up with Halladay, and Halladay is better currently over Santana moving toward the future, which other posters have explained.

    Either way, it is a good comparison, and they aren't that far off

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    48,831
    Basically, Halladay has 300 more innings at the same effective ratesand their era's, WHIP, k/bb ratio are very very close, and are within a few good/bad games and they are tied...that is how close they are.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    267
    halladay b/c he was never a met

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    5,934
    Quote Originally Posted by JDMac80 View Post
    halladay b/c he was never a met
    This does a better job of explaining the current standings of this pole than any other argument presented.

    Sadly.

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    42,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Do you always say that last line when comparing a player from a former country?
    former or foreign? And yes, frequently I do when it comes to areas known to have poor record keeping and/or manipulation to alter the dates for competitive advantage.

    BTW, with the news of Santana's operation, the answer to this thread is now clear.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Syracuse, NY
    Posts
    26,641
    LOL. great thread poll right when johan goes down for the season. what did you think the results would be?

  15. #30
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    PRESS BOX
    Posts
    1,484
    Quote Originally Posted by #27in2007 View Post
    tough one.... both have great stats... but i hate the fact that as an "ace", you can't count on Johan to ever go 9 innings... its so rare that he completes a game... when they are both retired you are going to see it pretty lopsided in the favor of halladay in my opinion.... he has more secondary pitches... now that johan's fastball isn't what it used to be, it has effected how hitters view his change up... plus his fastball and his changeup are both straight, but i should mentioned deadly accurate... i don't like stuff that stays straight once the spread on the MPH gets tighter....
    Johan had 3 straight complete games.
    Last edited by jetsfan28; 09-13-2010 at 10:03 AM. Reason: First part not necessary

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