Who Would you Rather have? Bj Upton or Jacoby Ellsbury

[Riveramk2]

Jacob only if I knew for sure he isn't injury prone

this is his first year getting hurt


so i wouldnt hit him with an "injury prone" label yet but if this same **** wit ells happens next yr sox fans are gonna have a riot n burn his house down

[NYY NYJ NYK]

Upton

Ellsbury one of the most overrated players in baseball

[Algmuskrats]

Ellsbury when healthy.

[Reversed86Curse]

Not that I value SB's that high to begin with but the difference isn't even that great to be considered, Ellsbury can't stay healthy and Upton is WAY better in CF. Upton

Els has one injury that just hasn't healed correctly, how is that that he can't stay healthy? It's not like he's on the DL every other month for something different. I'll take Els' upside when fully recovered over BJ's all day

[bagwell368]

Upton

Ellsbury one of the most overrated players in baseball

They both are. If I had either, I'd deal them.

[bosox3431]

Ill take the talent. Can't stand the David Ecksteins. Manny Ramirez doesn't give a **** and look at his career

Talent don't mean anything if you don't use it.

winner....

On a small/mid market team where you may not have the talent level there, I think a Jacoby can make all the difference in the world, where Upton could crack and potentially become a problem. a hustle guy who is balls out all day would shine in Cleveland, while a "natural talent" guy could get frustrated

On an established team where there is no "pressure" to make things happen (NYY, BOS etc) I am taking Upton because all he has to do is show up and play to make a difference. The Manny Ramirez comparison is dead on here.

This does not take into account injury history, service time, or other business issues.

Im sorry the Manny comparison is not dead. While Manny has the I dont give a **** attutude, he still went out and produced. He produced so well he's on of the greatest right handed batters of all-time. Upton has had one real good year with the bat, two years slightly above average(2010) and one pretty bad year. Manny on the other hand, has never had a full season that was just slightly above average. Even in two of Manny's worst years(09,10) he was better then Upton's best year. And his worst year with the bat, 07, was close to Uptons best year. Mannys worst years are most players career years. There is no comparison. They may both have the talent and same attitude, but Manny atleast used his talent, unlike BJ.

And don't take this as Im sticking up for Ellsbury, I don't like either of them personally, and I wish Ellsbury would have been traded when his value was high.

But this is alot closer then some think.
Ellsbury has played in 349 games, and has a career WAR of 7.6. Upton has played in 635 games, and has a career WAR of 12.9.

If I did the math correct, Uptons WAR per 162 games played is ~3.29. Ellsburys WAR per 162 games is ~3.53. Pretty even to me.

[bosox3431]

ha, yeah I laughed when I saw that someone said Upton wasn't a great base stealer. He's probably one of the 3-5 best in the AL at it.


Ellsbury's numbers are that of a 4th outfielder. Upton's aren't much better, but his defense takes the cake here.

4th outfielder? Actually in his two full seasons, his bat has been above league average. In 08, his .333 WOBA was better then the league average of .328 and in 09 his WOBA of .354 was above the league average of .329. Id hardly call that 4th OF'er numbers, especially for a CF'er. In 09his WOBA he was tied 4th in WOBA among CF'ers. Also for the 08 and 09 seasons, he ranked tied 8th, with Upton, for WAR among CF'ers.

[bagwell368]

how's ellsbury overrated?

I'm pretty sure I've seen over 70% of his games in the Majors, and this is what I see:

1. A player who has a game built almost totally on speed. He is a very good base runner and has very good SB/CS.
2. He can hit for a good average.

3. He has a poor OBP in the lead-off slot - lower then any other slot he has more then 1 PA at. He doesn't work pitchers and has a fairly meh pitches/PA average.
4. He has a weak SLG% for a LF, decent for a CF.
5. His speed makes up for a lot of mistakes with the glove. He often gets a bad jump because he doesn't recognize what he is looking at. Then he makes a lot catches that get oohs and ahhs that a really good CF - like the one in Seattle, or even Mike Cameron make as routine plays.
6. Turns out the word on him being soft physically started to dog him in the Minors.

At his current salary, he's worth having. But even better, he's worth trading. People keep excusing his weaknesses because he is young, but the fact is this time next year he'll basically be at the 50% point in MLB age. If the Sox keep him, they need a real leadoff guy - or at least Scutaro for one year because Ellsbury belongs in the 9 slot.

He's vastly - yes VASTLY overrated by those that don't know what they are looking at, or those easily blinded by diving catches and stolen bases.

[Driven]

They both are. If I had either, I'd deal them.

Totally agree. I have no idea why people love Upton.