Honestly, who has been the best pitcher for Boston, Lester or Bucholz?

[baseballguru3]

I know Lester is considered the ace or whatever, but I'd rather have Buch out there in a must win game.... and I believe he's having a better year than Lester.

What do you think? Lester or Buch so far this year?

[j-bay]

ITS buchholz! HARDEST NAME TO TYPE ON THIS SITE

[Pittz]

Hoestly, this could probably be in the Red Sox forum, and you should probably spell Buchholz's name correctly.

To answer the question, the only thing Buchholz has on Lester this year is ERA. Lester has the superior peripherals, and he's done this before.

[xabial]

Wow both had no-hitters what are the odds

[Ragun]

lester...without a doubt. lower WHIP, 30 more innings pitched, 80 more strikeouts, lower BAA in the same amount of starts.

[NCBoSoxfan21]

I'd much rather have Mr. Automatic in Lester. But I'm glad the Sox have both pitchers. I cannot for the life of me figure out why we took Lackey at such a deal with the talent we already had at SP.

Worst GM move of Theo's career.

[Pittz]

Or player comparisons lol

[bagwell368]

Lester has been a top 10 ML pitcher going back to the end of the 2007 season, he's a lefty too boot.

Buchholz has been fine going back to sometime in the 2nd half last year. In the period he's probably top 15 ML wide, but the lack of innings hurts his cause.

Lester easily.

Also, it's the first year of Lackey. Signing him was a better move then signing Bay. Let's hold the axe for now.

[NCBoSoxfan21]

Lester has been a top 10 ML pitcher going back to the end of the 2007 season, he's a lefty too boot.

Buchholz has been fine going back to sometime in the 2nd half last year. In the period he's probably top 15 ML wide, but the lack of innings hurts his cause.

Lester easily.

Also, it's the first year of Lackey. Signing him was a better move then signing Bay. Let's hold the axe for now.

And? Signing him was also a better move than giving 100M to Joe Schmoe # 1. It doesn't detract from the fact that he's overpaid for career norms and still not even doing that crappy, so he's doubly underperforming his contract. I knew it was a horrible signing from the start and it will only get worse as he gets older.

[baseballguru3]

Why is everyone using past performances and evaluating from that who has been the better pitcher between the two? The past has nothing to do with my question which was who has been the better pitcher between the two this year.....not through their careers thus far or going forward.

It's crazy to me that his own Boston fans would underrate Buchholz.....he's a moster and is coming into his own. I'd have to think real hard between Lester and Buchholz for the future...certainly no "easily lester" about it.

[Gigantes4Life]

Why is everyone using past performances and evaluating from that who has been the better pitcher between the two? The past has nothing to do with my question which was who has been the better pitcher between the two this year.....not through their careers thus far or going forward.

It's crazy to me that his own Boston fans would underrate Buchholz.....he's a moster and is coming into his own. I'd have to think real hard between Lester and Buchholz for the future...certainly no "easily lester" about it.

Because past performance is indicative of future performance.

And Lester is the better pitcher, and it is quite easily. No knock on Clay, but Lester is just that good.

[bagwell368]

And? Signing him was also a better move than giving 100M to Joe Schmoe # 1. It doesn't detract from the fact that he's overpaid for career norms and still not even doing that crappy, so he's doubly underperforming his contract. I knew it was a horrible signing from the start and it will only get worse as he gets older.

You can make that assertion, but until the deal is done, there is no way to know. I see some evidence that Lackey is getting used to the AL East, and I also see that he's pretty adapted to throwing w/o his stuff that he had in '02. Beckett OTOH doesn't seem to be learning how to deal with not being a flame thrower as well. So if Lackey is better then Beckett the fromt the start of '10 on - then automatically you're wrong.

Personally as I made clear in the offseason, I wanted Holliday and a RP, and no Lackey and no Cameron.

[Crucis]

I haven't read this thread in a bit (mostly because it's not in the Red Sox forum where it really should be), but it is interesting.

Looking back at your post from 8-19 to the (sarcasm intended) so-called baseball guru, while I can see that there would be much greater similarity between two starters from the same team (as opposed to starters from different teams) in terms of defense and ballpark factors, "greater similarity" is NOT total equality. Guru, can you say that Lester and Buchholz pitched the exact same number of road and away games? Can you say that they had the exact same defense composition behind them in equivalent numbers of games? Can you say that each has faced the same opponents equal numbers of times? And so forth. Of course not. One night Buchholz may have Vmart catching, and the next night, Lester might have had Varitek catching. Or MacDonald in LF one night and Nava the next night. Or Buchholz may have two more games against the Orioles while Lester has two more games against the Rays. Similarity is not total sameness.



Now to be fair, I'm not entirely fond of some of the modern stats because they seem to lack an intuitive sense of meaning. That is, raw ERA represents the number of earned runs per 9 innings. What does that ERA+ number represent? I realize (IIRC) that ERA+ is supposed to be an ERA stat with defense issues removed, but what does the number mean? It's not particularly intuitive. Last I noticed, Buchholz' ERA+ was in the 190's. 190 what? At least when someone says that a pitcher has an ERA of 2.36, I instantly know that it means 2.36 runs per 9 innings. I guess that I'd lile an ERA+ like stat if it was measured on the same "runs per 9 innngs" scale as ERA. It would be more intuitive to me, and many other people, I suspect.

[Celtic AL]

when is the Mod gonna realize baseballguru3 is really Lou Holtz Lisp

[Pittz]

Did you think the same thing about Matsuzaka? Anyone can have a fluke year.

I'm not saying Buchholz is having a fluke year, just that his peripherals aren't as solid as Lester's. Because of that, there's more chance of regression. With Lester, who is still improving as well (only 26), you're pretty much guaranteed a top ten ML wide pitcher. With Buchholz, there's much less certainty for his career, for next year, and even for his next start.

PS - You didn't mean their careers going forward, but you'd have to think hard between Lester and Buchholz for the future... Lol