Prospect Updates, Part 2!

[Ender]

At least there are prospects to list. In the 80's and early 90's you'd be hard pressed to name 3 prospects of any kind.

Strike that; there were many, many terrible prospects you could name.

[bowan1228]

I think the key distinction in the discussion is the assessment of the status of the farm system vs the reason why their farm system is currently not stocked with prospects and what that says about the organization.

While their success from 2006 ( and before as they were several times in hunt for playoffs before 2007) to 2011 is irrelevant to the status of their current farm system, it is directly relevant to why their system is currently ranked where it is. They would have a terrific system if they never traded for Halladay, Pence, Oswald, etc and if they had finished in last multiple times in last 10 years but we would have missed out on multiple trips to postseason and a lot of exciting baseball.
I have no issue with a direct assessment of their system , I just reject any argument that it reflects poorly on the organization.

The padres have a great system because they traded away all their major league talent for prospects. The rangers I admit have won and built a good system.

My complaint is an assessment that Biddle projects as a relief pitcher only as this is clearly out of step with every publication that projects him as a probable 3 starter and maybe better and just strikes me as being unjustly negative about the organization's status

[The A Team]

Addressing the first point last, in my experience, players who are profiled as #3 starters without more than 2 plus pitches tend to wind up in the bullpen. So that's where I'm coming from with that.

I do think Biddle has a fair chance to stick as a starter, more than May did.

If you look at the prospects we gave up in those trades, they wouldn't make our farm system that much better. It would be mid-tier and have MLB ready depth, but that's about it.

[Dark Donnie]

If we had Singleton or someone like D'Arnaud we'd probably be in the 10-15 range because those two are viewed as blue chip prospects by BA and other outlets. Discussion was brought up over at Phuture Phillies as well. Lack of any "blue chip' prospects hurts a teams ranking.

[bowan1228]

As a new contributor to the site, I certainly respect the various opinions and enjoy the debate, I just disagree with the assessment of the farm system without trades

A system with
Singleton
D Arnaud
Gose
Santana
Cosart

Would definitely be more highly rated than 25 which I believe is the number I have most frequently seen not to mention the impact of continued success has had on our draft position.

Our farm system is weaker than I would like. I think it's just fair to explain the reason why it is weak.

[Dark Donnie]

If we still had all of those guys we'd probably have a system in the 5-8 range. I have no issue with the front office trading away D'Arnaud for Doc...only move I questioned was Pence...gave away Singleton, Cosart and Santiago for less then a year of Pence.

[bowan1228]

THe pence trade was a mistake and an overreaction.
Amaro was trying as best he could to make the team bulletproof in a short postseason series which is not a good reason to make a trade because its so unpredictable.
The Oswald trade was different because he was a direct factor in us winning the division in 2010
We would have won the division in 2011 without Pence.
Just an example of proceeding with caution when fans say " Go all in " for a particular season

[The A Team]

Again, the ranking isn't really something to be concerned about. The overall quality of the system is more important. If you take all those guys back, the major players are Singleton and D'Arnaud. Cosart is a pen spec and there are a couple interesting role type players like Gose.

D'Arnaud is obviously a big deal and Singleton would be nice, but other than that I don't see anything that would change the roster considerably. Maybe they could trade for JUpton.

[k_dol50]

Bowan, that's a fair assessment. I think it's really that one trade and the hasty overspending in the Ibanez/Papelbon deals that people criticize the organization for. I don't think anyone is criticizing them for trying to win. It's just that you can't use trying to win as an excuse to make bad decisions.

[The A Team]

Yea I guess I don't know what we're talking about anymore. I'm just saying that the farm system is objectively weak and the roster is old and therefore risky.

[bowan1228]

Unfortunately, i think we are going to have plenty of opportunity and high draft picks over the next 5 yrs to rebuild the quality of our Farm system.

I hope our assessment of the current system is incorrect and it turns out better than we think or we are in for a long rebuilding process.

[The A Team]

Being among the league's Have's should help. A team like the Braves has to have a successful farm system. The Phillies just need a couple good players once and awhile. And to not completely waste $25 million at a time...

[mets100%]

If we had Singleton or someone like D'Arnaud we'd probably be in the 10-15 range because those two are viewed as blue chip prospects by BA and other outlets. Discussion was brought up over at Phuture Phillies as well. Lack of any "blue chip' prospects hurts a teams ranking.

Hamels for d'Arnaud.

[Phillzfan1126]

I believe since 1999 or 2000 only 62 % of the Phillies Prospects failed to produce, which was actually second best in the league. A huge reason for success

I mean we can have some great prospects that flounder at the major league level, I think thats why (I apologize if I am wrong or offend here) A-Team is generally careful on his assessment of our minor league system. I mean people have been claiming that the Royals were going to be unbelievable with their farm system.............eh so far not that impressed.

I agree completely with a few good role players and one solid prospect, Phillies can be a playoff caliber team, its nice when a franchise has enough money to bring in talent

[Synyster89]

I think the Phil's farm system is pretty much what you would expect from a team that has drafted in the bottom half or at the bottom of the first round for a decade, has traded away prospects to try to win another WS and signed compensation associated free agents with the same goal in mind.

For the person who posted the Phils system is bottom five and the teams not listed may also be better, I will respond that I have not seen a single publication that has listed us as the worst Farm system in baseball. If that source exists, please post it.
I would also find it hard to believe that there are multiple organizations with more than 30 prospects better than Asche. If there are, please name them.

If you want a really strong farm system, easy solution. Trade away major leaguers for prospects and suck for a decade like the Nationals. Not like they were some draft gurus to select Harper and Strausburg.

And by the way, the Braves organization that everyone admires so much has made 2 trips to playoffs as wild card in last 7 yrs and lost both times in first round they played.

Not that our organization has not made major mistakes in draft, trades and free agent signings but really, we've missed playoffs once in 6 yrs in a year when we had catastrophic injury totals but if I listened to this site, I would think we are the worst organization in baseball.

Arguments carry more weight when they are not so biasly negative for an organization that has done very well in the last 10 yrs.

My list isnt based off of any publication but there is no reasoning to list the Philles specs above any of the teams I listed and I noted that they could be anywhere in the bottom 5-6 depending on who you value, never said they were the worse. Althout the case could be made.