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  1. #1156
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowan1228 View Post
    I think the key distinction in the discussion is the assessment of the status of the farm system vs the reason why their farm system is currently not stocked with prospects and what that says about the organization.

    While their success from 2006 ( and before as they were several times in hunt for playoffs before 2007) to 2011 is irrelevant to the status of their current farm system, it is directly relevant to why their system is currently ranked where it is. They would have a terrific system if they never traded for Halladay, Pence, Oswald, etc and if they had finished in last multiple times in last 10 years but we would have missed out on multiple trips to postseason and a lot of exciting baseball.
    I have no issue with a direct assessment of their system , I just reject any argument that it reflects poorly on the organization.

    The padres have a great system because they traded away all their major league talent for prospects. The rangers I admit have won and built a good system.

    My complaint is an assessment that Biddle projects as a relief pitcher only as this is clearly out of step with every publication that projects him as a probable 3 starter and maybe better and just strikes me as being unjustly negative about the organization's status
    Why does everything have to be based on a publication? Its okay to have your own opinion especially when it comes from a respected member in the prospect forum ATeam). I do however believe and hope Biddle will be in the rotation.
    Proud Temple University Alumni
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    I hate domes... Brees wouldnt have a Job if there were no Domes

  2. #1157
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    And just to piggy back on this again, publications tend to get caught up in upside. Which makes sense because that's what people want to read about and dream on. A lot of good starting pitching prospects end up in the bullpen.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  3. #1158
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    Many of the posters on this site know a lot more about the players in the phillies farm system than I do. I have never seen any of these players in action. All I know is what I read on various websites and publications. I make my statements based on publications because it's the only source available short of actually speaking to baseball scouts which I don't have access to.

    The phillies farm system may be among the few worst in baseball. Their top pitching prospects may end up relief pitchers. Their infield prospects may just be overrated and placed in top 10 prospects because someone has to be. Cody Asche may not be a major league 3 rd baseman. I have no idea. Never saw any of them play live or for extended time on tv.

    I will defer judgment to those contributors to site who have that type of first hand experience or have spoken to scouts or other people in the know.

    As a fan, I hope these assessments are incorrect as they do not bode well for the future of this franchise.

  4. #1159
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    The good news is that the prospect problem can change quite suddenly. Just a few years ago, we went from a bottom 10 to a top 10 system for a season (then traded 4 of our prospects and had Brown fizzle out). If say Quinn, Cozens, Tocci, and a pitcher to be named later have good seasons, the Phillies could be back to being a fairly high quality system.

    Prospecting is all about the "ifs." We like to say that Prospect is _________, but in reality even the most certain prospects have a very wide range of possible outcomes. As an organization, you want to put yourself in a position where the likeliest outcomes are positive, but as the Royals pitching prospects have demonstrated, that can fall apart very quickly. Other systems have proven that you don't need highly regarded prospects to produce great talent (the mid '00's Phillies are a great example of this).

    Howard and Utley were liked but not loved and Ruiz wasn't considered to be anything.
    Last edited by The A Team; 12-21-2012 at 09:28 AM.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  5. #1160
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    The lack of development of Brown from a highly regarded prospect really hurt
    He should have been a solid contributing corner outfielder by now or atleast a young player with measurable upside
    Instead, we are left hoping he can contribute in some way

  6. #1161
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    The upside is still readily apparent when watching him but it's not clear he can tap into it. He's starting to remind me of Delmon Young or Lastings Milledge.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  7. #1162
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    There certainly have been a number of high profile multitooled outfielders that have failed over last 10 yrs of so.

    Those are good examples

    I do think his OB% will be much better than Young's.

    He strikes me as type of player who could develop in a low stress rebuilding environment where he is not seen a future star. ( certainly not Philly) and could get 500 AB's ( if he can stay healthy)

    Something like Minnesota, cleveland, San Diego

  8. #1163
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    The upside is still readily apparent when watching him but it's not clear he can tap into it. He's starting to remind me of Delmon Young or Lastings Milledge.
    Hopefully he doesnt get fat like did too.
    Proud Temple University Alumni
    Eagles: Jeremy Maclin
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    ...the beginning of a Philly Dynasty

    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    I hate domes... Brees wouldnt have a Job if there were no Domes

  9. #1164
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    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...pects-for-2013

    Sickels' list is up. I'm getting confused about Asche now. I can't tell if these online types are overreacting to a stat line or if there's actually something to him. As of August/September all of the scouts were still saying he was a second division role player (aka replacement level). Maybe something changed in fall ball?

    Sickels apparently likes the Phillies system as mid-tier fwiw. I think he's given a couple of toolsy pitchers a bit of a grade bump. They could turn out exactly as he describes, but I think the downside on that collection of arms is a little more than he makes out.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  10. #1165
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    Nice rankings...good to see Morgan getting some love.

  11. #1166
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    I found this old list, thought it was funny how at that time Gavin Floyd was ranked higher than Cole

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2005/3/4/114437/4745


    Bring on our 3rd WS ring, our first Super Bowl win, 4th NBA Championship, and 3rd Stanley Cup

  12. #1167
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    over 1000 posts, closed. You guys can make another one if you want (obviously)

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