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  1. #46
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  2. #47
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    Chase Utley needs to be top 5 in these lists.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    No, this is the best hitters now - not over the last 3 years. If that were the case then Berkman would be in there and Braun would be out, which would make no sense. Votto was 5th in TAv in 2009 while Youkilis was 16th. Youk is also in his age 31 season (a decline year) while Votto is in his age 26 (almost at his peak).

    Vlad had an injury-plagued season in 2009 but he's a Hall of Famer having an excellent season. He is quite easily a top 10 hitter right now. The only difficulty I have with my list was whether Utley, Teixeira, or Mauer should be 10th. I settled on Utley because he best combined power with on base abilities (Mauer is lacking in power while Teixeira lacking in OBP, relative to their elite hitting class).
    Yourbasing it on this year? Then Youk defintly should be there, regardless of age. He's still having a fantastic season, even at his age. I dont see what that matters?

    But anyways, Youk is 3rd in wOBA, 2nd in OBP, 7th in SLG, 4th in OPS, 9th in ISO, 2nd in wRAA, 6th in BB/K, 4th in WPA and 4th in the batting part of WAR. If thats not a top ten hitter this year, then I dont know what is. Oh yea, Votto is behing Youk in every catagory I mentioned, yet he's somehow better?

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    Yourbasing it on this year? Then Youk defintly should be there, regardless of age. He's still having a fantastic season, even at his age. I dont see what that matters?

    But anyways, Youk is 3rd in wOBA, 2nd in OBP, 7th in SLG, 4th in OPS, 9th in ISO, 2nd in wRAA, 6th in BB/K, 4th in WPA and 4th in the batting part of WAR. If thats not a top ten hitter this year, then I dont know what is. Oh yea, Votto is behing Youk in every catagory I mentioned, yet he's somehow better?
    Thing is with these stupid polls is most don't base it on stats. It's all people plugging their team's favorites or buying into hype over subastance. In some cases, it's just stupidity IE. Prado.

  5. #50
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bosox3431 View Post
    Yourbasing it on this year? Then Youk defintly should be there, regardless of age. He's still having a fantastic season, even at his age. I dont see what that matters?

    But anyways, Youk is 3rd in wOBA, 2nd in OBP, 7th in SLG, 4th in OPS, 9th in ISO, 2nd in wRAA, 6th in BB/K, 4th in WPA and 4th in the batting part of WAR. If thats not a top ten hitter this year, then I dont know what is. Oh yea, Votto is behing Youk in every catagory I mentioned, yet he's somehow better?
    Sample size. I put the best hitters right now, not the hitters with the best statistics this year. If that were the case, Adam Dunn or Andre Ethier would make the top 10 and Fielder wouldn't. Youkilis finished far behind Votto last year in hitting, as I already stated. I realize that "better hitter now" is a nebulous term, but that's the point of the threads - have a discussion. If the point was to put the top 10 in WAR for an arbitrary 2.5 month period (such as the 2010 season so far), then everyone would have the same list and it would be boring. I bring up age not because it's a huge issue but because it's another strike against a player with similar hitting credentials.
    Last edited by flea; 06-20-2010 at 01:31 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClayMatthews View Post
    Fielder and Braun should both be on the list.
    No they shouldnt, braun could be hitting 330 but he always tries to pull the ball and hit a home run instead of taking it the opisit way, fielder isnt a good hitter he does the same thing.

  8. #53
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    Prado is the best 2B in the NL why no love?

    "I know one thing for sure; you won't be able to say that Braves fans don't care" Chipper Jones

  9. #54
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    Mauer, Morneau, Utley, Longoria, Howard, Arod, Pujols, Cabrera, Ichio, Vlad, Gonzalez

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by D-Will4Prez View Post
    Prado is the best 2B in the NL why no love?
    If you think he is one of the best 10 hitters in the majors you are out of your mind. Even if you only look at this year's stats where he has been playing way over his head he is still nowhere near top 10. When a .378 OBP/.469 SLG line is your ceiling you have no business in this discussion.
    In case you weren't aware, there is now a Religion Forum here. All high-quality discussion welcome!

  11. #56
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    Martin Prado...hahahaha...really!?!?!...Top Ten....really...cmon!
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    noah is gonna be a beast man.

    with him and harvey, its like were gonna have Goku and Vegetta in the same rotation

  12. #57
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    Rob Deer

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Sample size. I put the best hitters right now, not the hitters with the best statistics this year. If that were the case, Adam Dunn or Andre Ethier would make the top 10 and Fielder wouldn't. Youkilis finished far behind Votto last year in hitting, as I already stated. I realize that "better hitter now" is a nebulous term, but that's the point of the threads - have a discussion. If the point was to put the top 10 in WAR for an arbitrary 2.5 month period (such as the 2010 season so far), then everyone would have the same list and it would be boring. I bring up age not because it's a huge issue but because it's another strike against a player with similar hitting credentials.
    Far behind? You act as if the stat you use is the end of all stats. Why nottry using multiple stats.

    OBP
    Votto- .414
    Youk- .413

    Slg
    Votto- .567
    Youk- .548

    OPS
    Votto- .981
    Youk- .961

    wOBA
    Votto- .418
    Youk- .413

    wRAA
    Votto- 40.2
    Youk- 41.3

    ISO
    Votto- .245
    Youk- .242

    Batting component of WAR
    Votto- 37.8
    Youk- 39.1

    IDK, maybe in Cincy they consider that "far better", but that looks pretty damn close to me. Now, so far this year, Youk has been far better, but we'll see what it looks like at the end of the season.

  14. #59
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    Those counting components for wins and runs above replacement are not as good of barometers for comparing players. TAv utilizes these but sets a median and uses a kind of bell curve to tell how good players are. For example, it's much harder to gain a 10 point advantage in TAv if you're talking about .310 versus .320, rather than .260 versus .270. Thus, it's telling that Votto finished with a .335 TAv (good for top 5 in all the league), while Youk had a still excellent but not really comparable 2009 with a .317 TAv. Youk finished behind guys like Berkman, Dunn, and Derrek Lee.

    Counting stats like WAR and WRAA don't give an accurate picture for comparison. They tell you how they helped their team, sort like advanced RBIs or OBI%, but not how their individual hitting compares with other good hitters. wOBA is fine but I don't necessarily agree with their hard-and-fast weights, nor the fact that it doesn't take park factors into account.

    BTW: I'm not a Cincy fan, nor do I live there. But it's obvious you're a Red Sox fan based upon how offended you are by the fact that Votto is a better hitter than your team's best hitter.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Those counting components for wins and runs above replacement are not as good of barometers for comparing players. TAv utilizes these but sets a median and uses a kind of bell curve to tell how good players are. For example, it's much harder to gain a 10 point advantage in TAv if you're talking about .310 versus .320, rather than .260 versus .270. Thus, it's telling that Votto finished with a .335 TAv (good for top 5 in all the league), while Youk had a still excellent but not really comparable 2009 with a .317 TAv. Youk finished behind guys like Berkman, Dunn, and Derrek Lee.

    Counting stats like WAR and WRAA don't give an accurate picture for comparison. They tell you how they helped their team, sort like advanced RBIs or OBI%, but not how their individual hitting compares with other good hitters. wOBA is fine but I don't necessarily agree with their hard-and-fast weights, nor the fact that it doesn't take park factors into account.

    BTW: I'm not a Cincy fan, nor do I live there. But it's obvious you're a Red Sox fan based upon how offended you are by the fact that Votto is a better hitter than your team's best hitter.
    Offended? Im not offended by any means. If I was I would have resorted to name calling like most goons on here. Im not saying Votto wasnt better last year, I was debating the fact you said far behind, based on 1 stat. I posted many stats that showed it was much closer then what you were stating. But Youk has been better this year. Like I said, we'll wait til the end of the year and see where they are.

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