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  1. #76
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    I really liked Cutler in Denver. I thought he was going to be great. Maybe he still will, i don't know. It didn't look like it this year. But he really didn't have too much talent around him, so i don't know.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbpackers12 View Post
    I really liked Cutler in Denver. I thought he was going to be great. Maybe he still will, i don't know. It didn't look like it this year. But he really didn't have too much talent around him, so i don't know.
    I honestly think that was the only problem. You remember Favre a few years ago, everyone thought he regressed and it turns out he was just trying to carry a bad team on his shoulders. I know Cutler isn't Favre, but they are very similar players.

  3. #78
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    and this is why it matters whether QBs can win the big game. Rivers, Romo, Mcnabb, Flacco, and Palmer all played poorly in the playoffs.

    none of them have shown that they can play 4 straight weeks of good football against the best NFL has to offer.

    Guys like Eli Manning and Big Ben have, and that is what raises them from the aforementioned "pack"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giants99 View Post
    and this is why it matters whether QBs can win the big game. Rivers, Romo, Mcnabb, Flacco, and Palmer all played poorly in the playoffs.

    none of them have shown that they can play 4 straight weeks of good football against the best NFL has to offer.

    Guys like Eli Mannings DEFENSE and Big Ben and his DEFENSE have, and that is what raises them from the aforementioned "pack"
    fixed.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giants99 View Post
    and this is why it matters whether QBs can win the big game. Rivers, Romo, Mcnabb, Flacco, and Palmer all played poorly in the playoffs.

    none of them have shown that they can play 4 straight weeks of good football against the best NFL has to offer.

    Guys like Eli Manning and Big Ben have, and that is what raises them from the aforementioned "pack"
    Once . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by DCB/LAL View Post
    fixed.
    Ah, got it. So it was Roethlisberger who allowed the 64 yard TD catch and run to give up the lead. And it was really his defense that drove 80 yards in 2 minutes to throw a perfect pass above 3 defenders to the one place his receiver could catch it with 35 seconds left for the score and the come from behind victory. That makes . . . not sense. It makes something, but not sense. Definitely doesn't make sense.

    In all seriousness, after Super Bowl XLIII, and then the season he just had, why anyone thinks Roethlisberger is overrated and only wins because of his defense is beyond me.

    And not to stray away from the original point of this thread, I'll repeat my top 15 rankings, with some slight alterations.

    1. Brees
    2. Peyton
    3. Brady
    4. Rivers
    5. Favre
    6. Roethlisberger
    7. Rodgers
    8. Romo
    9. McNabb
    10. Schaub
    11. Warner
    12. Eli
    13. Palmer
    14. Ryan
    15. Flacco

  6. #81
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    your a steelers fan and have Rivers above Big Ben? Im a giants fan and that simply aint right. Rivers is overrated. With that team, there is no excuse to not have a ring by now

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giants99 View Post
    your a steelers fan and have Rivers above Big Ben? Im a giants fan and that simply aint right. Rivers is overrated. With that team, there is no excuse to not have a ring by now
    What team? You mean the one that was 4-12 when Rivers showed up?

    He played with a freaking torn ACL just for a chance at the ring. That right there makes him ineligible of being overrated.
    [
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Cyanide 28 View Post
    but he da best ever doo
    he iz lyke gonna be betta than revix u can sigg quot me

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giants99 View Post
    your a steelers fan and have Rivers above Big Ben? Im a giants fan and that simply aint right. Rivers is overrated. With that team, there is no excuse to not have a ring by now
    Oh wait what? You're a Giants fan?

    I'm not surprised that you don't understand what modesty is, and how someone can manage to not overrate a player based on what jersey he wears. Eli Manning at number 4, future hall of famer. I know you're a Giants fan, but really? As you pointed out, I'm a Steelers fan, and I don't even think the starting QB on my team is the best of his draft class.

    Rivers has had to overcome a lackluster defense the last two seasons (16th in 2009, 25th in 2008) to put up astounding numbers and lead his team into the playoffs each year.

    His first playoff game was following his first year as a starter, where he was mostly riding then-league MVP LaDainian Tomlinson. Threw for maybe 230 yards, below 50% completion percentage, no touchdowns, an interception and a fumble lost. That could partially be credited to his offensive line, giving up 3 sacks, and maybe more if Rivers didn't throw the ball away, giving way to his sub-50% completion percentage. And this was back when the Patriots defense still had traces of its Super Bowl winning hay-day. I'm just speculating, I don't remember it at all. It was 3 years ago.

    His second season as a starter, he led his team to the Championship Game, where he lost to the then-undefeated Patriots. No shame in losing to the Patriots in 2007 if you didn't have a defensive line consisting of Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, or Osi Umenyiora. Rivers was near spotless in the wild card and divisional round.

    Third year as a starter, he was the first QB to pass for over 300 yards against the Steelers that season. Had 3 TDs in that game. Blame the Steelers and their abilities to control the ball (which they forgot to do this season in the 4th quarter. ****** Bruce Arians) for the Chargers loss. The Chargers had the ball for 17 seconds in the entire 3rd quarter, and could only run one play. It was an interception off a ball tipped up at the line. A loss to the eventual Super Bowl champions. A team from California playing in the north in January, but I try not to make weather excuses.

    And for the second consecutive playoff exit, he faced the #1 defense in the league. This best defense in the league forced him into mistakes like it has many of the top quarterbacks in the league this season. Even Peyton Manning was playing somewhat poorly until he was benched Week 16. Then he wasn't playing at all. Rivers still nearly broke 300 yards today, but his defense couldn't even rough up a rookie QB or RB.

    The Chargers have had the worst defense of the three when comparing them, the Giants and the Steelers. So it's really no surprise that Rivers is the only one of the big 3 QB's from 2004 that doesn't have a ring.

    Rivers has turned Vincent Jackson, Malcolm Floyd and Legedu Naanee into one of the better receiving corps in the league. I can't credit Rivers for this part, I can and will credit him for being able to execute the plays so well, but the Chargers offense has figured out how to use Darren Sproles, something which the Bears (Devin Hester) and Saints (Reggie Bush, but they're getting closer) haven't been able to do yet.

    Roethlisberger's top target is Hines Ward, who was a Hall of Fame lock before Roethlisberger was even drafted. Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller and Rashard Mendenhall were all first round draft picks. Jackson was a 2nd rounder, Floyd a 3rd rounder, Sproles a 4th rounder, Naanee a 5th rounder, and even Gates was undrafted. Rivers's first year as a starter was only Gates's second year as a starter. This is just my opinion, but if receivers are late round draft picks and they do well, I credit the quarterback more than I would if the receiver were a 1st round pick. Unless it was multiple quarterbacks, as is 3rd round pick Ward's case.

    Final point: You can't say one player is better than another because he has a Super Bowl ring and the other doesn't. That's just one game, and a team effort. I'd love to hear your logic for why Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson are all better than Dan Marino. Even though I know what your logic is already. It's nothing more than "Super Bowl win."

    Closing remarks: Philip Rivers is dirty, he will win at least one Super Bowl in his career, he just needs a defense that opposing teams can't just walk over like they have been, and a young (not Tomlinson), true (not Sproles) running back. But they should start with the defense first. Which they did with Larry English.

  9. #84
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    1. Peyton Manning
    2. Drew Brees
    3. Tom Brady
    4. Brett Favre (this season he has been great...)
    5. Phil Rivers
    6. Aaron Rodgers
    7. Ben Roethlisberger
    8. Matt Shaub
    9. Kurt Warner
    10. Tony Romo
    11. Carson Palmer
    12. Donovan McNabb
    13. Eli Manning
    14. Matt Ryan
    15. Joe Flacco

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ring91013144043 View Post
    Oh wait what? You're a Giants fan?

    I'm not surprised that you don't understand what modesty is, and how someone can manage to not overrate a player based on what jersey he wears. Eli Manning at number 4, future hall of famer. I know you're a Giants fan, but really? As you pointed out, I'm a Steelers fan, and I don't even think the starting QB on my team is the best of his draft class.

    Rivers has had to overcome a lackluster defense the last two seasons (16th in 2009, 25th in 2008) to put up astounding numbers and lead his team into the playoffs each year.

    His first playoff game was following his first year as a starter, where he was mostly riding then-league MVP LaDainian Tomlinson. Threw for maybe 230 yards, below 50% completion percentage, no touchdowns, an interception and a fumble lost. That could partially be credited to his offensive line, giving up 3 sacks, and maybe more if Rivers didn't throw the ball away, giving way to his sub-50% completion percentage. And this was back when the Patriots defense still had traces of its Super Bowl winning hay-day. I'm just speculating, I don't remember it at all. It was 3 years ago.

    His second season as a starter, he led his team to the Championship Game, where he lost to the then-undefeated Patriots. No shame in losing to the Patriots in 2007 if you didn't have a defensive line consisting of Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, or Osi Umenyiora. Rivers was near spotless in the wild card and divisional round.

    Third year as a starter, he was the first QB to pass for over 300 yards against the Steelers that season. Had 3 TDs in that game. Blame the Steelers and their abilities to control the ball (which they forgot to do this season in the 4th quarter. ****** Bruce Arians) for the Chargers loss. The Chargers had the ball for 17 seconds in the entire 3rd quarter, and could only run one play. It was an interception off a ball tipped up at the line. A loss to the eventual Super Bowl champions. A team from California playing in the north in January, but I try not to make weather excuses.

    And for the second consecutive playoff exit, he faced the #1 defense in the league. This best defense in the league forced him into mistakes like it has many of the top quarterbacks in the league this season. Even Peyton Manning was playing somewhat poorly until he was benched Week 16. Then he wasn't playing at all. Rivers still nearly broke 300 yards today, but his defense couldn't even rough up a rookie QB or RB.

    The Chargers have had the worst defense of the three when comparing them, the Giants and the Steelers. So it's really no surprise that Rivers is the only one of the big 3 QB's from 2004 that doesn't have a ring.

    Rivers has turned Vincent Jackson, Malcolm Floyd and Legedu Naanee into one of the better receiving corps in the league. I can't credit Rivers for this part, I can and will credit him for being able to execute the plays so well, but the Chargers offense has figured out how to use Darren Sproles, something which the Bears (Devin Hester) and Saints (Reggie Bush, but they're getting closer) haven't been able to do yet.

    Roethlisberger's top target is Hines Ward, who was a Hall of Fame lock before Roethlisberger was even drafted. Santonio Holmes, Heath Miller and Rashard Mendenhall were all first round draft picks. Jackson was a 2nd rounder, Floyd a 3rd rounder, Sproles a 4th rounder, Naanee a 5th rounder, and even Gates was undrafted. Rivers's first year as a starter was only Gates's second year as a starter. This is just my opinion, but if receivers are late round draft picks and they do well, I credit the quarterback more than I would if the receiver were a 1st round pick. Unless it was multiple quarterbacks, as is 3rd round pick Ward's case.

    Final point: You can't say one player is better than another because he has a Super Bowl ring and the other doesn't. That's just one game, and a team effort. I'd love to hear your logic for why Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson are all better than Dan Marino. Even though I know what your logic is already. It's nothing more than "Super Bowl win."

    Closing remarks: Philip Rivers is dirty, he will win at least one Super Bowl in his career, he just needs a defense that opposing teams can't just walk over like they have been, and a young (not Tomlinson), true (not Sproles) running back. But they should start with the defense first. Which they did with Larry English.
    While I think you can flip a coin to determine between Ben and Philip, your stance is somewhat flawed. You can't say because a guy was drafted later hsi success is more than likely due to the quarterback. What if he had character issues(i.e. Brandon Marshall) that knocked him out of the first round? What if he is meant to be a possesion receiver? That's a ridiculous way of thinking about it. Almost as ridiculous as winning a Super Bowl = instantly better. Now winnign 2 Super Bowls? I'll take that into consideration lol.

    Fact is the Chargers have long been considered the "most talented team" in the NFL every year since 2004 except for 2007... Their defense may not be showing up lately but Rivers has some great receivers in Jackson and Gates and an awesome O-Line...

    But again, I'd rank Rivers at 4 and Ben at 5.

  11. #86
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    1) Peyton- Best in the league. Will retire as one of the best
    2) Brady- Good bounce back year.Maintains the second spot
    3) Brees- Very good quarterback and puts up a fight with Brady
    4) Rivers- Young quarterback who continues to improve.
    5) Favre- Old man winter has been consistently good for 3 straight years (until injury last year). Hes still got in in 3 different systems in the past 3 years
    6) Rodgers- He is getting better with every year. He learned from one of the best.
    7) Rothelisberger- Personal prefrence. He knows how to win and has an amazing arm.
    8) Romo- Excellent quarterback. Continues to improve in Dallas.
    9) Schaub- Continues to improve and makes the Texans a scary team offensively when passing the ball.
    10) Warner- He cracks the top ten and its a shame he may retire. Great with his arsenal.
    11) Mcnabb- Still a great qb but he will continue to decline as he ages.
    12) Eli- Very good passer but he still has a lot to prove in terms of being a top 10.
    13)Palmer- Led the Bengals back into the playoffs this year. He makes that team a lot better and is a good qb.
    14) Ryan- Not as magical as his rookie year but Ryan still lead the Falcons to an above .500 record.
    15) Cutler- Huge slip from last year. Barely makes the list but at the end of the year he started to come into his own. Misses Marshall and that Oline.

    On the Brink
    Garrard- Still has work to do
    Cassel- Alright considering his team
    Orton- (did a lot better with a new team)

    Could be there next year but not yet
    Sanchez- One more year plus a very strong team.
    Henne- See above.
    Flacco- Ray Rice is not the only reciever, needs to look more on others

    In Decline/Wont ever make it back to top 15
    Matt Hasselbeck- Probably gone
    Delhomme- gone
    Pennington- Probably Retirement
    Collins- Retirement. Just a backup

    Wont Move into top 15 Next year
    Stafford- Too young of a team with just too little
    Young- Im a fan but I dont think he will ever be a top 15. He's on a run first team with a top running back and he just isnt that good.
    Alex Smith- Just cant see it.
    Matt Moore- Could easily be replaced but I think they will choose other needs over QB in the draft.
    Quinn/Anderson- I dont think the Browns give up on them but they aren't moving up on this list

    Wont start next year (not including declining players)
    Jamarcus
    Fitzpatrick
    Last edited by jetsforever; 01-18-2010 at 06:42 PM.

  12. #87
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    1. Peyton Manning
    2. Drew Brees
    3. Brett Favre
    4. Philip Rivers
    5. Aaron Rodgers
    6. Tom Brady
    7. Ben Rothelisberger
    8. Tony Romo
    9. Matt Schaub
    10. Donovan Mcnabb
    11. Kurt Warner
    12. Carson Palmer
    13. Eli Manning
    14. Matt Ryan
    15. Kyle Orton

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegendX View Post

    1 - Peyton Manning
    2 - Phillip Rivers
    3 - Tom Brady
    4 - Drew Brees
    5 - Kurt Warner
    6 - Aaron Rodgers
    7 - Donovan McNabb
    8 - Brett Favre
    9 - Ben Rapistburger
    10 - Tony Romo
    11 - Carson Palmer (would skyrocket to Top 5, maybe even 3, if he could stay healthy)
    12 - Matt Schuab
    13 - Vince Young
    14 - Matt Ryan
    15 - Joe Flacco
    Not going to lie... I hate this list.

    Warner is not a top 5 Qb, Romo is better then Mcnabb now, Flacco is not bette rhten Cutler, Young and Flacco over Eli? Rivers over Brady and Brees?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarEagle24 View Post
    1. Peyton Manning
    2. Drew Brees
    3. Brett Favre
    4. Philip Rivers
    5. Aaron Rodgers
    6. Tom Brady
    7. Ben Rothelisberger
    8. Tony Romo
    9. Matt Schaub
    10. Donovan Mcnabb
    11. Kurt Warner
    12. Carson Palmer
    13. Eli Manning
    14. Matt Ryan
    15. Kyle Orton
    So, don't look at the stats for a minute. The Broncos get one of the best defenses in the NFL after having one of the worst you could imagine last season, and they finish with the same record. Why? Because Orton is incomparably worse than Cutler.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsforever View Post
    Not going to lie... I hate this list.

    Warner is not a top 5 Qb, Romo is better then Mcnabb now, Flacco is not bette rhten Cutler, Young and Flacco over Eli? Rivers over Brady and Brees?
    x2

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