kawa 3.86 ERA in 156.1 IP
moyer 4.94 ERA in 162 IP
ERA isnt the best comparitive tool but in this case its clear that Kawakami is better... hes younger and in any other rotation he would be way more then a #5 starter..
Hamels and Jurrjens are pretty equal IMO... if anything you would give the edge JJ because he is coming off a monster season and the guy just keeps improving.
All in all, its an easy pick. The Braves have the better rotation when you compare 1-5.
The way CC/Cliff Lee dominated in the AL, its going to be on another level with Halladay. The guy is the best in the game. He's going to run through those lineups. If Hammels can do anything, the Phils have the best rotation.
Lowe is by far better than Blanton, 2009 a season that Braves Fans wanted Lowe out he pitched better then any of Blantons seasons ever, so no do your research, and as far as Jair if he pitched for a team with an offense he would have had more than 20 wins( guess we will see this year) Hamels barely had what 10 wins with an era of 4.32 and thats with your monster offense, yea your argument has bearing there.
Keep in mind the Phillies do not have to be the best at everything......
Jair: W/14 L/10 ERA: 2.60 IP/211
Cole: W/10 L/11 ERA: 4.32 IP/193.2 you are actually trying to argue a point here....you can just stop.
Last edited by Bravefan29; 12-27-2009 at 06:27 AM.
I could be wrong and very well might be but didn't Blanton pitch better then lowe last year????? That being said Lowe also pitched in one of the best pitching parks in the majors where Blanton pitched in one of the worst. My Point on Hamels is that he had a down year and Jair had a good year so yes you can say what you want about that but the fact is that when Hamels is on he is by far more dominate then Jair. Braves fans want their rotation to be the best so bad and it was... But you GM made a dumbass trade that killed you rotation.
Happ over your top 4 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
look I grew up in Philly and I know how the fans are, I am not going to win this argument and I do not need to, I also do not need to resort to stupid comments to get my point across.
Blanton:W/12 L/8 ERA/4.05 and gave up 30 bombs
Lowe: W/15 L/10 ERA/4.62and gave up 16 bombs
So Lowe had 3 more wins and gave up 14 fewer homers, so yes he got the braves more wins, and historically I would take Lowe any day of the week over Blanton.
Phillies fans do not get it, even with Cole Hamels you had to go get a cy young pitcher to compete(lee), now you had to get another (halladay), just because you have 1 stud pitcher it does not give you the best rotation.
If the Braves offense was like the Phils offense..well you get the picture.
I am a baseball fan as well as a Braves fan, if the Phillies had a better rotation than the Braves I would say it but thats just not the case. You are entilted to your opinion but it really has no basis.
Dude wow. Really. Wins and losses? and fewer home runs is what you are going by? Are you kidding me? Wow what a joke you are. I am not even going to get into all that because you just proved my point for me by posting what you posted. Also the Phillies having a better rotation then the braves is not just because they got Halladay... Its also because YOU TRADED AWAY YOUR BEST PITCHER FOR VERY LITTLE.
Lmao... Wow wins and losses.
Stop right there. You just said:but in this case its clear that Kawakami is better...
So if it's not the best comparative tool, you shouldn't use it to compare people!ERA isnt the best comparitive tool
If he's more than a #5 starter in any other rotation than that team isn't making the playoffs.hes younger and in any other rotation he would be way more then a #5 starter..
They're a lot closer than I thought this year. Going forward I'd say Hamels has a better shot at being successful because Jurrjens walks too many batters and doesn't strike out enough to make up for it.Hamels and Jurrjens are pretty equal IMO... if anything you would give the edge JJ because he is coming off a monster season and the guy just keeps improving.
I compared it and I agree, it was an easy pick. Except it was in favour of the Phils.All in all, its an easy pick. The Braves have the better rotation when you compare 1-5.
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The Braves have a slightly better rotation than the Phillies, but their offense is just a monster. Therefore, the Phillies still have a much better team.
Originally Posted by Twitchy
I didn't bother comparing "Kawakamy" to Moyer because the fifth spot is pretty weak for both sides.
What? Kawakami is not weak. Man up and say you didn't compare the 5th spots because the Braves' is much better and you didn't feel like it.
As for Hudson/Halladay debate, it's hard to argue that Hudson is better right now because of how the last few years have gone. As a career though they are quite close. Hudson dominated the AL for 6 years but has simply been very good since coming to the senior circuit. They're relatively close in age (Hudson is 2 years older) and they've both pitched nearly the same amount of innings with Hudson becoming a regular about 2 years earlier in age than Halladay. Their ERAs are pretty close as well, but playing the last 5 years in the AL East is certainly more difficult than the last 5 in the NL East (though not by as much as some people want to believe).
Using FIP and tRA to judge a career is stupid. Those statistics are made for gauging future results, and the argument against ERA is that its too dependent upon other factors that cause inaccurate fluctuations. We're talking about over 2000 innings of work here though - the sample size means the fluctuations are primarily borne out.
The worst thing coming out of sabremetrics has been novice fans' idea that it means ERA is useless. ERA gauges exactly what it claims to: the average number of earned runs a pitcher gives up in 9 innings. Since the game is about runs and outs at its most basic level, ERA is very effective for comparing what pitchers have done (but not what they will do, which is why FIP and tRA are helpful).
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I'm not saying he's going to turn into an ace, but he had a good year for a 5th starter and I think he needs a little bit more time in the majors before you can declare him a "glorified long reliever" - especially given his track record of immense success in Japan.
You can say you prefer strikeout pitchers if you want, but you can't argue with over 2000 innings of results. (And saying that he's had excellent defenses just shows you don't know much about the teams he played for.)
Like I said, their careers as a whole are a lot closer than people would think lately (mainly because baseball fans are fickle and have no long-term memories).
But I mean, if you want to go ahead and argue that Kamikami sic is a long reliever, that Hudson is no where near Halladay's level, and that the most fundamental statistic in baseball is worthless then go ahead.