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  1. #1
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    IGT: Philadelphia Flyers at New York Islanders

    Time: 1:00pm
    Place: Nassau County Coliseum

    News & Notes:

    - Islanders are coming off a 6-4 loss to MTL on Saturday
    - Islanders have won 7 of their last 10 games
    - John Tavares leads the team in goals (20) and points (43)
    - Flyers are coming off of a 4-3 win over BUF on Saturday
    - Flyers are 14-1-1 when scoring 4 or more goals; they are 4-20-6 when they don't
    - Jake Voracek continues to pace the league in scoring with 53 points

  2. #2
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    I really, really, really miss Lavy. He accused a ref that he winked at Joel Quenneville during a game. So we in Philly know, if Lavy sees that, its not gonna be pretty

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au68N4JwCl8


  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randall Stevens View Post
    I really, really, really miss Lavy. He accused a ref that he winked at Joel Quenneville during a game. So we in Philly know, if Lavy sees that, its not gonna be pretty

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au68N4JwCl8
    yah ... we had to to let him go because his personal and $ issues got in the way of coaching, as evidenced by the extremely crappy training camp and the players not being in shape - but 0 doubt he is 10x the coach berube is, and a top coach in the league ... has a cup, and when he has a defense that can play his up tempo style like we did when he got here in 2010 ... he has a game plan that is pretty tough to beat.

  4. #4
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    Nothing unexpected. Islanders are a good possession team built on speed. Flyers are....well, not.

  5. #5
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    I know it's not Berube's fault, but he better not be back with the team next year. But keep him for this year and assure us a decent pick. Can we just bring up Cousins, Leier, Straka, Hagg and see what they can do and get them some experience, also help us with getting a decent pick. This season is a complete write off.

  6. #6
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    This team is downright embarrassing. I can't believe they were a game 7 win away from the conference semis last year. Come back this year with the same bunch for the most part and its a major disaster.
    Lets keep G, Voracek and Simmons, give everyone else away, starting with Holmgren, forfeit the season and save us fans the embarrassment and agony of watching the last 30+ games of a lost year. Whats worse is that Hextall won't do ANYTHING to try to make the team better, its like they have given up on the season just like the players. Snider can't be a happy guy right now, I share his pain as a loyal fan over the last 40 years.

  7. #7
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    are they still paying dipietro?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vikes_Fan_TC View Post
    This team is downright embarrassing. I can't believe they were a game 7 win away from the conference semis last year. Come back this year with the same bunch for the most part and its a major disaster.
    Lets keep G, Voracek and Simmons, give everyone else away, starting with Holmgren, forfeit the season and save us fans the embarrassment and agony of watching the last 30+ games of a lost year. Whats worse is that Hextall won't do ANYTHING to try to make the team better, its like they have given up on the season just like the players. Snider can't be a happy guy right now, I share his pain as a loyal fan over the last 40 years.
    Its a good thing hextall isn't doing anything. What can he even do?? No one wants macdonald, umby, or vinny. This team is pretty different from last year. No Hartnell, timmo, more injuries to the d....

    60 hits. Wow. I really hope this team can start getting some bigger faster forwards.

  9. #9
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    couturier, read, and umberger were a collective -14; and couturier was a career worst -5

    they got dominated all game ...

    i'm couturier's ... 2nd biggest supporter, i think PEM takes the cake there ... and i hope we don't trade him ... but we really really need to have him play like he can play every game, and give him a legit winger ... way too inconsistent still

    matt read is maybe having a bad year, but he is starting to look like a bad resigning at 4+m/year ... they all need to turn it up

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    couturier, read, and umberger were a collective -14; and couturier was a career worst -5

    they got dominated all game ...

    i'm couturier's ... 2nd biggest supporter, i think PEM takes the cake there ... and i hope we don't trade him ... but we really really need to have him play like he can play every game, and give him a legit winger ... way too inconsistent still

    matt read is maybe having a bad year, but he is starting to look like a bad resigning at 4+m/year ... they all need to turn it up


    Ok, let me start by saying I agree that this line was not good at all today. They got beat up. That said, the entire team as a whole was pretty terrible. So lets not excuse everyone else by focusing on the Couturier line.


    Specifically, Couturier. Yes, I'm about to defend him, and this article explains why:

    http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...rier-breakdown


    He was not responsible for ONE goal that he was on the ice for. MAYBE you could make the case for 1 of the goals, but the other 5, no way no how. Hell, one of them he was literally stepping out of the penalty box when the goal was scored.


    Like the article says, perfect example of why plus/minus is a terrible stat, especially on an individual game basis.



    Also, you can't combine plus/minus for a line, just like you can't combine points scored for a line. You can't say they were a combined -14. 14 goals were not scored by the Islanders while they were on the ice. Hell, there were only 11 goals scored by both teams in total. That's like saying it took 6 hours for 3 different people driving 3 separate cars leaving at the same time to drive to New York, when each person got there in 2 hours, respectively.



    Finally, on Matt Read, he's having a bad year, yeah. He's been dealing with 2 separate injuries, one to his foot, the other a high ankle sprain, which took about 2 full months to heal because he continued to play on it. I'm not willing to even think about him being a bad signing. It's an injury-riddled season. You don't go from averaging 20+ goals a year, to this, and just completely fall of a cliff for the rest of his career.


    If he has another year like this, then there is cause for concern. At this point, just a bad year filled with injuries on a bad team.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    Ok, let me start by saying I agree that this line was not good at all today. They got beat up. That said, the entire team as a whole was pretty terrible. So lets not excuse everyone else by focusing on the Couturier line.


    Specifically, Couturier. Yes, I'm about to defend him, and this article explains why:

    http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...rier-breakdown


    He was not responsible for ONE goal that he was on the ice for. MAYBE you could make the case for 1 of the goals, but the other 5, no way no how. Hell, one of them he was literally stepping out of the penalty box when the goal was scored.


    Like the article says, perfect example of why plus/minus is a terrible stat, especially on an individual game basis.



    Also, you can't combine plus/minus for a line, just like you can't combine points scored for a line. You can't say they were a combined -14. 14 goals were not scored by the Islanders while they were on the ice. Hell, there were only 11 goals scored by both teams in total. That's like saying it took 6 hours for 3 different people driving 3 separate cars leaving at the same time to drive to New York, when each person got there in 2 hours, respectively.



    Finally, on Matt Read, he's having a bad year, yeah. He's been dealing with 2 separate injuries, one to his foot, the other a high ankle sprain, which took about 2 full months to heal because he continued to play on it. I'm not willing to even think about him being a bad signing. It's an injury-riddled season. You don't go from averaging 20+ goals a year, to this, and just completely fall of a cliff for the rest of his career.


    If he has another year like this, then there is cause for concern. At this point, just a bad year filled with injuries on a bad team.
    1) he was on the ice and it was team play ... sure he isn't directly responsible, but the forwards lost the board battle and the puck came back out ... the FORWARDS, plural - not saying he is directly at fault (cough matt read), but they didn't have a good dump-in; and that is what happened ... deserved a minus as a group, didn't understand set and setting and didn't have a good dump-in

    2) garbage defense, and awful pursuit by couturier after the turnover (also presented a poor passing angle) ... lazy even by couturier ... go watch on nhl.com ... and BSH is a flyers site ... couturier was out of position, and it was a broken play ... deserved a minus, entire group on the ice did

    3) any short handed goal - entire unit deserves a minus - even for a single person's stupid decision to shoot the puck ... couturier is too high in the zone for where he is playing, and closes the shooting lane even further ... sure, he opens the passing lane - but on-ice communication counts ... whole group deserves a minus

    4) he was IN THE BOX, he is the theoretical reason they scored 2 seconds after he got out of the box ... deserved a minus ... that is how the game even itself out statistically, just like a strong wind blowing in from left at citizen's bank maybe takes away a HR on a day (taking about how stats even themselves out, not drawing a comparison between apples and oranges). Put the team in a bad spot, hurt your line/the team ... either get lucky and avoid the minus or have your mistake count against you ... this time, it counted against him ... lucky or not, they aren't in that position without the penalty

    5) 1st - he lost the face-off; which led to the initial shot (not pictured in this), then he lost the battle for the puck on the rebound ... leading to tavares passing the puck to leddy for the goal ... EXTREMELY VALID MINUS

    6) we have had a few goals that happened in the last minute of play this year ... for all those +'s that weren't earned for giroux and voracek magic ... this is a minus ... even'd out


    i see 5/6 valid minus's ... and a valid stat.
    Last edited by castan_b; 01-20-2015 at 12:49 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    1) he was on the ice and it was team play ... sure he isn't directly responsible, but the forwards lost the board battle and the puck came back out ... the FORWARDS, plural - not saying he is directly at fault (cough matt read), but they didn't have a good dump-in; and that is what happened ... deserved a minus as a group, didn't understand set and setting and didn't have a good dump-in

    2) garbage defense, and awful pursuit by couturier after the turnover (also presented a poor passing angle) ... lazy even by couturier ... go watch on nhl.com ... and BSH is a flyers site ... couturier was out of position, and it was a broken play ... deserved a minus, entire group on the ice did

    3) any short handed goal - entire unit deserves a minus - even for a single person's stupid decision to shoot the puck ... couturier is too high in the zone for where he is playing, and closes the shooting lane even further ... sure, he opens the passing lane - but on-ice communication counts ... whole group deserves a minus

    4) he was IN THE BOX, he is the theoretical reason they scored 2 seconds after he got out of the box ... deserved a minus ... that is how the game even itself out statistically, just like a strong wind blowing in from left at citizen's bank maybe takes away a HR on a day (taking about how stats even themselves out, not drawing a comparison between apples and oranges). Put the team in a bad spot, hurt your line/the team ... either get lucky and avoid the minus or have your mistake count against you ... this time, it counted against him ... lucky or not, they aren't in that position without the penalty

    5) 1st - he lost the face-off; which led to the initial shot (not pictured in this), then he lost the battle for the puck on the rebound ... leading to tavares passing the puck to leddy for the goal ... EXTREMELY VALID MINUS

    6) we have had a few goals that happened in the last minute of play this year ... for all those +'s that weren't earned for giroux and voracek magic ... this is a minus ... even'd out


    i see 5/6 valid minus's ... and a valid stat.

    1) So I'm guessing this is the one you're saying isn't valid, so I'll leave it alone for the most part. I will say this though. Couturier is in position defensively. CC got beat BAD by Grabner. That goal is on CC. Say what you want about the forwards not establishing a forecheck, CC should never let Grabner get by him like that. Very poor positioning on his part.


    2) Couturier is doing his job defensively on this play. As the article states, Nelson is his guy. He's shadowing Nelson. Reason he is higher in the zone, is because Streit took Nelson. Like you said, it was a broken play, so the players had to react quickly. Streit tied up a man in front. Read went out to challenge the shot, though not very well. Couturier got in position to block the shot, because Read was late getting over to challenge the shooter. The two players not doing anything on this play, are Lecavalier and Schenn. They are not defending anything. And after the shot, the rebound comes out, Schenn whiffs on it and Lecavalier turns up ice rather than coming down to take Kulemin. They are at fault on this play. Yeah, BSH is a Flyers site. So I'm assuming you saying that is saying they are being biased. So if that were true, wouldn't the article be defending the Flyers as a whole, not just Couturier?


    3) This is so ridiculous. You're going to blame not just Couturier, but the entire rest of the group, because Matt Read decided to shoot the puck with a man standing directly in front of him? Look at the screenshot of when Read shoots the puck. He's got Del Zotto wide open on the half-boards, and he's got Vinny wide open at the other point, STICK IN THE AIR, waiting for a one-timer. Yet he decides to shoot. Couts in NOT too high in the slot. If that pass goes to Del Zotto, Del Zotto has an easy one time pass to Couturier for a quick shot on net. Or if the puck goes cross ice to Vinny, all Couts has to do is slide over and he creates a double screen in front of Halak. Couts is in good position. That was a piss poor decision by Read. Nothing more.


    4) This is the biggest contradiction of your argument. Plus/minus - right or wrong - is not affected for the player in the box. You can't say that plus/minus is a valid stat, and then turn around and say his plus/minus should be affected for taking a penalty, when that's not how it works. Like the article says, you want to blame him for taking the penalty, fine. But that's not how plus/minus works.


    5) I'd be willing to concede SOMEWHAT to this, because he lost the initial face-off. Though again, he's in position when the shot is taken. The puck just found its way through 4 skaters. Hard to blame really anyone for this goal. I mean seriously look at that screenshot and tell me how that puck ended up in the net.


    6) I'm not touching this it's just comical for that to be an actual excuse for Couturier earning a minus with the net empty. You're argument has literally nothing to do with what actually happened on the ice.




    Again, I'm not trying to completely absolve Couturier from any blame, and neither is the article. He had a bad game, by any metric. But the way people look at plus/minus, it's not fair to look at the box score, see a -5, and say wow Couts was horrible. Just like when you see a guy has a +4, it's not fair to assume he had an awesome game. He could have had absolutely nothing to do with how the goals were scored. He doesn't deserve that +4 just because he was on the ice at the time. He could have literally been laying down on the ice taking a nap, but if a goal was scored by his team, he gets a plus.


    I mean ****, the 4th line was worse than the 3rd line, but no one is talking about that, because VandeVelde scored a ****ing goal. So that absolves them from anything, because they scored one goal, despite being completely dominated all night otherwise?


    It's a terrible statistic. It is extremely basic and shallow. It gives you next to zero insight on how a player actually performed, especially on a single game basis.

  13. #13
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    so in one post someone trashed Couturier AND brought up +/- ??????

    PEM's head has exploded.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    It's a terrible statistic. It is extremely basic and shallow. It gives you next to zero insight on how a player actually performed, especially on a single game basis.
    That can be argued for every player statistic, conventional or advanced, in sports like Hockey and Football

    just saying


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    i mean, don't get me wrong ... i got a signed couturier WC jersey, i love him and want him to be a flyer forever

    the whole line played like **** last night, and deserved to have some sort of 'calling out for it' ... whether that is in +/- or in another stat ... we need to have couturier play like he does in the playoffs every game, be damned who his wings are ... i think he is that good, he needs to think it now. I'm tired of watching bad hockey ... when i watch good hockey, it isn't us playing it

    rationalize anything we need to - but that game was brutal and tonight will even be worse ... yuck.

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