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  1. #1
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    2016 Off-season Thread

    Figure since the Roster/Trade Thread is well over 100 pages this would be a good idea.

    Draft is over. Free agency starts in about a week's time.

    Let's put any off-season rumors, signings, trades, ideas, questions, etc. in here.

  2. #2
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    Minor news: Flyers are bringing back Mark Alt.

    He signed a 1 year 2 way contract for $625K late yesterday. Confirmed today.

  3. #3
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    FLYER-FAN,

    I'm not sure what you mean by not having players that can skate with Giroux. I wholeheartedly disagree. Voracek, Simmonds, Raffl, Schenn have all proven at one point or another to be very good compliments to Giroux.


    I think what you mean to say is you feel this team is lacking in terms of star power goal scorers at the forward position, particularly in the farm system.


    I would agree with that, but I would combat that by saying the forwards they do have, are multidimensional forwards. You talk about two way play as if it is a minor thing. Having forwards that can play both ends of the ice is crucial in today's game. That's a tangible skill. All of the players Hextall has drafted over the past 3 drafts can skate, can play in all 3 zones, have high hockey IQs and have a good mix of size and speed.


    I think the main differentiation this draft compared to the past two drafts, is Dave Hakstol. Hextall now has a coach he feels has given this team in identity. They have a certain style they want to play, whereas the past 2 drafts, Hextall didn't really know what his coach wanted and he didn't know what direction his team would go in terms of an identity.


    In 2014, the Flyers simply needed talent. They needed to start stocking the farm system with some type of talent, because they had nothing. In 2015, they needed to continue to find talent in any way possible, and Hextall needed to figure out which direction Hakstol was going to go in terms of an identity. Now that Hextall knows where Hakstol wants to take this team, he can identify particular players to target, and I think that's what we saw in this draft.


    What does Dave Hakstol like to do? He likes two way players. He likes guys that can skate, that get in hard on the forecheck, that can gain the zone with speed and will be just as tenacious and hungry in the defensive zone and neutral zone as they are in the offensive zone. From his defensemen, he wants guys who can skate and move the puck efficiently, either start the rush or join the rush and be effective in stepping up in the neutral zone.


    Every player that was drafted the past 2 days fits that identity to a T. He's rounded out his prospect pool. The Flyers have an identity now, and he used this draft to acquire players who fit that identity.



    Now that the draft is over, it's time to start talking to free agents and potentially work out some trades. We have the entire off-season in front of us.



    You say you've been patient for 40 years or what have you; I got news for you, it's better to be patient when you know there's a plan in place than the 39 years prior when GMs in this organization only had the Stanley Cup in mind every year. That's not how you sustain success as an organization.


    Newsflash: until Hextall became GM, the Flyers had been doing it wrong for 39 years.



    Hextall knows what he's doing. He's building this team the right way, the way his predecessors SHOULD have been building this team prior to his arrival.


    He's needed - yes, needed - the past 2 full years to clean up the mess that was left for him when he took over.


    I'm not going to guarantee a Stanley Cup, but I PROMISE you, the next 2-3 years are going to be A LOT more fun than the previous 2-3 years.

  4. #4
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    Ok' I just seen the change over to this thread so I copied and pasted my response from the other thread below .

    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    "Voracek is not the answer" - huh?
    In my opinion, no voracek is not the answer he is not a top line guy and Giroux makes him better then he is . Voracek is a decent second line guy but he does not compliment Giroux on the top line sorry he has poor puck control and his shots missed the target most of the time and he also makes some poor decisions he is not a top line guy he has heart he gives it his all every shift but he does not have the tools needed to open up the ice for his line mates like is needed . Who would you rather see playing with Giroux, voracek or say Taylor Hall ? Hall can skate end to end with control and can either pass it off or put it in the net and so with a player like Hall takes all the pressure of Giroux which would make for better unpredictability on that top line .
    I still haven't addressed the second forward who we keep playing musical chairs with .

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYER-FAN View Post
    Ok' I just seen the change over to this thread so I copied and pasted my response from the other thread below .

    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    "Voracek is not the answer" - huh?
    In my opinion, no voracek is not the answer he is not a top line guy and Giroux makes him better then he is . Voracek is a decent second line guy but he does not compliment Giroux on the top line sorry he has poor puck control and his shots missed the target most of the time and he also makes some poor decisions he is not a top line guy he has heart he gives it his all every shift but he does not have the tools needed to open up the ice for his line mates like is needed . Who would you rather see playing with Giroux, voracek or say Taylor Hall ? Hall can skate end to end with control and can either pass it off or put it in the net and so with a player like Hall takes all the pressure of Giroux which would make for better unpredictability on that top line .
    I still haven't addressed the second forward who we keep playing musical chairs with .

    I think if we can sign Vanek at a decent contract, we should bring him in. I would hope for something in the 3 years 10m range.

  6. #6
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    My concern with Vanek is he's not a great skater, and as he gets older it's only going to get worse.

    IF they were to bring Vanek in, I wouldn't go more than 1 year.

    Frankly I'd rather go after players like Stempniak, Perron (price may be too high though), Matthias, Santorelli. Some lower end guys with speed who can really get in hard on the forecheck and add some secondary scoring at 5 on 5.


    If they can clear some more cap space, maybe you look into other options. But again, you want to make sure you're not doing so much that you clog up spots that should go to the young guys coming up over the next few years.

  7. #7
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    Also, Vanek sucks

  8. #8
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    Newsflash: until Hextall became GM, the Flyers had been doing it wrong for 39 years.
    that is insanity.

    i realize you're too young to have seen it with your own eyes, but it is a huge mistake conflate the pre-lockout and post-lockout eras. pre-2004, the flyers were cup contenders year in/year out. we may not have gotten one, but we were constantly in the mix.

    post-lockout, things immediately went to ****. we had to buy out a number of our veteran leaders; we spent big on aging defensemen who couldn't keep up with the new rules; we completely failed to adjust to the 'New NHL'; clarke was aging and out of touch; shootouts.

    we missed the boat in every possible way post-2004, but even then, we still managed to rebound for a cup run in 2010.

    this organization, even in the post-lockout era, is not nearly as feeble as you want us to believe it is. you talk about this being hextall's 3rd season, but paul holmgren inherited the worst team in franchise history and took them to the finals within 3 years.


    i'm optimistic about hextall's future, but this idea that hextall's hands have been tied and cuffed and taped and glued is not tethered to reality. he chose to keep mark streit; he chose to keep matt read; he chose to trade for rj umberger. he could have torn this team down as soon as he got here, but he chose not to.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    that is insanity.

    i realize you're too young to have seen it with your own eyes, but it is a huge mistake conflate the pre-lockout and post-lockout eras. pre-2004, the flyers were cup contenders year in/year out. we may not have gotten one, but we were constantly in the mix.

    post-lockout, things immediately went to ****. we had to buy out a number of our veteran leaders; we spent big on aging defensemen who couldn't keep up with the new rules; we completely failed to adjust to the 'New NHL'; clarke was aging and out of touch; shootouts.

    we missed the boat in every possible way post-2004, but even then, we still managed to rebound for a cup run in 2010.

    this organization, even in the post-lockout era, is not nearly as feeble as you want us to believe it is. you talk about this being hextall's 3rd season, but paul holmgren inherited the worst team in franchise history and took them to the finals within 3 years.


    i'm optimistic about hextall's future, but this idea that hextall's hands have been tied and cuffed and taped and glued is not tethered to reality. he chose to keep mark streit; he chose to keep matt read; he chose to trade for rj umberger. he could have torn this team down as soon as he got here, but he chose not to.

    You're right, let me rephrase: Since the salary cap has been implemented, the Flyers have been doing it wrong. They've been operating under the same assumption: spend to the cap, try to load up for a Cup run, don't worry about the farm system.


    It's easy pre-cap era to be a consistent contender when you have the money the Flyers possess. That's not building a team.

    "Managing a Cup run" isn't how you sustain success. How Hextall is building this team is how a team should be built.

    In terms of your argument of choosing to keep Streit and Read and trading for Umberger:

    a) I guess I have to repeat, the off-season just started 3 days ago, so to say he's chosen to do anything other than draft players is premature at best.

    b) Streit is due a $2M signing bonus on July 1st of this year, so if you actually believed a team was going to trade for him before that signing bonus was allocated, you were kidding yourself. No team in their right mind would trade for him before July 1st.

    c) Since when is trading Read something that has to happen? I wouldn't mind it, but to throw him into the same conversation as Streit and worse, Umberger, is unwarranted.

    d) Trading for Umberger was probably the worst move Hextall has made to this point, and in the grand scheme of things, it isn't really that bad. He took a bad contract in Hartnell and shortened it to 3 years in Umberger. Sure, he got next to nothing out of Umberger while Hartnell produced in CBJ. But Hartnell is now on the block in CBJ and it doesn't seem like many teams are banging down the door to take on that contract. So big picture, how bad of a deal was it really? I'd argue not all that bad.



    Whether you want to see it or not, Hextall is doing things the right way, and he's done a lot to get this team on the right track given what he was left to work with by Holmgren.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    FLYER-FAN,

    I'm not sure what you mean by not having players that can skate with Giroux. I wholeheartedly disagree. Voracek, Simmonds, Raffl, Schenn have all proven at one point or another to be very good compliments to Giroux.


    I think what you mean to say is you feel this team is lacking in terms of star power goal scorers at the forward position, particularly in the farm system.


    I would agree with that, but I would combat that by saying the forwards they do have, are multidimensional forwards. You talk about two way play as if it is a minor thing. Having forwards that can play both ends of the ice is crucial in today's game. That's a tangible skill. All of the players Hextall has drafted over the past 3 drafts can skate, can play in all 3 zones, have high hockey IQs and have a good mix of size and speed.


    I think the main differentiation this draft compared to the past two drafts, is Dave Hakstol. Hextall now has a coach he feels has given this team in identity. They have a certain style they want to play, whereas the past 2 drafts, Hextall didn't really know what his coach wanted and he didn't know what direction his team would go in terms of an identity.


    In 2014, the Flyers simply needed talent. They needed to start stocking the farm system with some type of talent, because they had nothing. In 2015, they needed to continue to find talent in any way possible, and Hextall needed to figure out which direction Hakstol was going to go in terms of an identity. Now that Hextall knows where Hakstol wants to take this team, he can identify particular players to target, and I think that's what we saw in this draft.


    What does Dave Hakstol like to do? He likes two way players. He likes guys that can skate, that get in hard on the forecheck, that can gain the zone with speed and will be just as tenacious and hungry in the defensive zone and neutral zone as they are in the offensive zone. From his defensemen, he wants guys who can skate and move the puck efficiently, either start the rush or join the rush and be effective in stepping up in the neutral zone.


    Every player that was drafted the past 2 days fits that identity to a T. He's rounded out his prospect pool. The Flyers have an identity now, and he used this draft to acquire players who fit that identity.



    Now that the draft is over, it's time to start talking to free agents and potentially work out some trades. We have the entire off-season in front of us.



    You say you've been patient for 40 years or what have you; I got news for you, it's better to be patient when you know there's a plan in place than the 39 years prior when GMs in this organization only had the Stanley Cup in mind every year. That's not how you sustain success as an organization.


    Newsflash: until Hextall became GM, the Flyers had been doing it wrong for 39 years.



    Hextall knows what he's doing. He's building this team the right way, the way his predecessors SHOULD have been building this team prior to his arrival.


    He's needed - yes, needed - the past 2 full years to clean up the mess that was left for him when he took over.


    I'm not going to guarantee a Stanley Cup, but I PROMISE you, the next 2-3 years are going to be A LOT more fun than the previous 2-3 years.

    PEM you said
    I'm not sure what you mean by not having players that can skate with Giroux. I wholeheartedly disagree. Voracek, Simmonds, Raffl, Schenn have all proven at one point or another to be very good compliments to Giroux.

    I disagree or perhaps your misunderstanding me . My point is Giroux first off is a playmaker not a goal scorer only because he chooses to be but we do not have a player other than Giroux who can skate end to end while controlling the puck moving through the opposition to either dish it off or put a move on the goalie and put it in the back of the net . I am not saying we need a super star I am saying we do not have the player who can do this either on the current NHL team or in our system . Hexstall keeps going for the two way player and the tenacious forecheckers which is fine but in order to have the proper balance we need two or three guys who can skate end to end while controlling the puck away from defenders we can't expect to win without those type players I mean take a look at our shoot outs we are terrible , why ? Because we do not have the type of player I am asking we go get and or draft and it's the same reason we are not winning a lot of games and it's the same reason we are constantly at the bottom for goals scored by a team .... It doesn't have to be a superstar and Giroux needs that type of player for him to excel as well .

    Guys like vorcek , raffle, schenn, Simmonds are nice players but these guys are not the type of player I am suggesting we need and who really Giroux needs those guys perhaps would fit nicely as the third forward on the top line or second line guys and raffle belongs on the 3rd maybe 2nd line ... Giroux is a talent being wasted without the type of guy I am asking for.
    Remember when we had Jagr ? How was Giroux playing then ?

    And to downplay my patience and people like me who have been true flyer fans for years is wrong . We have been patient we also heard the talk of how great the next GM will be etc etc . What are you 25 years old ? You go through this for another 20 years and let me know how you feel about all those broken promises heard them all before .

    PEM you sound like a very knowledgable and great flyer fan but you are putting way to much faith and giving more than deserved credit to Hextall not unless your related , lol .

    We have sucked before he became GM and we still suck three years later but it does look promising with our young defenseman and konecney looks like a player to watch but until we start improving and winning games and advancing in the playoffs and for me I want to see exciting players who can skate and score some damn goals consistently.

    We need better balance offensively more than just the two way player we need fast skating guys who will put the puck in the net consistently. I would love to see break a ways or 2 on 1's etc. remember them ? I would love to have the type player who puts fear into the opposing teams goalies during shoot outs other than just Giroux .... I believe Giroux could take it to the next level if he had that other guy on his line with him ..

    Like you said it's still only June so I am hoping for hextall to work magic like some of the great GM ' do and make a trade for a guy perhaps Taylor Hall ... I would rather have him than vorcek or raffle and use Shultz or streit to go with vorcek or raffle to get him .. I still have faith because it's only June .. Lol .

  11. #11
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    Like you said it's still only June so I am hoping for hextall to work magic like some of the great GM ' do and make a trade for a guy perhaps Taylor Hall ... I would rather have him than vorcek or raffle and use Shultz or streit to go with vorcek or raffle to get him .. I still have faith because it's only June .. Lol .

    Edmonton doesn't want Streit or Schultz. Streit and Voracek would be a lot of salary to take on. Why would Edmonton do something like that?

  12. #12
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    We will have to agree to disagree on this, FLYER-FAN.

    I disagree that Giroux is the only guy on this team able to go end to end. Voracek is plenty capable of that. In fact he has the highest offensive zone entry percentage on the team over the past 3 seasons. He's actually known for rushing the puck up ice, so I'm not sure why you fail to see that in games.

    As the kids come up, Konecny and Aube Kubel are efficient end to end rushers.



    Regardless, the best teams in the league get up the ice through efficient and timely passing plays, not end to end rushes with single players. That's the direction Hextall is taking this team.


    One of the biggest flaws of this team - and I'd argue this is a much bigger issue than their scoring - is their inability to efficiently and consistently exit the zone. They can be an absolute nightmare trying to execute a breakout from the defensive zone, and a lot of that stems from their lack of puck moving ability on their blue line as well as their overall lack of passing ability as a team. Their passing precision is poor overall; they routinely miss sticks on passes and it disrupts their ability to move up the ice efficiently.


    Again, as they add their young players to the team, particularly on the defense with Sanheim and Provorov to go along with Ghost and Del Zotto, this team will get faster. Not just because they will have literally better foot speed, but because these guys are all very good passers who can move the puck up ice in that manner as well.



    End to end rushes are great; it's exciting to watch a player weave through traffic. But it's not a sound strategy when you go up against the very good teams in the league. You need to be able to make it up the ice in multiple ways, and efficient and precision passing will ALWAYS be more effective than end to end rushes from a single player. It promotes a 5 man unit approach.



    Feel free to disagree. I have a feeling over the next 2-3 years, starting with this season, you'll begin to see what I foresee with this team moving forward.

  13. #13
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    Just to make sure we are all on the same page ... Once the defense can actually skate, move the puck out of our zone with a first, crisp pass, and can actually be a threat from the blue line, we will be an entirely different team; and I consider us actually stacked on offense - even with the bad year.

    We struggle at the start of all plays with our defense, so it is 2x as hard to score ... And we still are very dangerous offensively

    The defense is 1 year from being fixed. Everyone needs to be patient who is yaming for the Flyers to have drafted a one dimension goal scorer to "cure" the woes

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYER-FAN View Post
    PEM you said
    I'm not sure what you mean by not having players that can skate with Giroux. I wholeheartedly disagree. Voracek, Simmonds, Raffl, Schenn have all proven at one point or another to be very good compliments to Giroux.

    I disagree or perhaps your misunderstanding me . My point is Giroux first off is a playmaker not a goal scorer only because he chooses to be but we do not have a player other than Giroux who can skate end to end while controlling the puck moving through the opposition to either dish it off or put a move on the goalie and put it in the back of the net . I am not saying we need a super star I am saying we do not have the player who can do this either on the current NHL team or in our system . Hexstall keeps going for the two way player and the tenacious forecheckers which is fine but in order to have the proper balance we need two or three guys who can skate end to end while controlling the puck away from defenders we can't expect to win without those type players I mean take a look at our shoot outs we are terrible , why ? Because we do not have the type of player I am asking we go get and or draft and it's the same reason we are not winning a lot of games and it's the same reason we are constantly at the bottom for goals scored by a team .... It doesn't have to be a superstar and Giroux needs that type of player for him to excel as well .

    Guys like vorcek , raffle, schenn, Simmonds are nice players but these guys are not the type of player I am suggesting we need and who really Giroux needs those guys perhaps would fit nicely as the third forward on the top line or second line guys and raffle belongs on the 3rd maybe 2nd line ... Giroux is a talent being wasted without the type of guy I am asking for.
    Remember when we had Jagr ? How was Giroux playing then ?

    And to downplay my patience and people like me who have been true flyer fans for years is wrong . We have been patient we also heard the talk of how great the next GM will be etc etc . What are you 25 years old ? You go through this for another 20 years and let me know how you feel about all those broken promises heard them all before .

    PEM you sound like a very knowledgable and great flyer fan but you are putting way to much faith and giving more than deserved credit to Hextall not unless your related , lol .

    We have sucked before he became GM and we still suck three years later but it does look promising with our young defenseman and konecney looks like a player to watch but until we start improving and winning games and advancing in the playoffs and for me I want to see exciting players who can skate and score some damn goals consistently.

    We need better balance offensively more than just the two way player we need fast skating guys who will put the puck in the net consistently. I would love to see break a ways or 2 on 1's etc. remember them ? I would love to have the type player who puts fear into the opposing teams goalies during shoot outs other than just Giroux .... I believe Giroux could take it to the next level if he had that other guy on his line with him ..

    Like you said it's still only June so I am hoping for hextall to work magic like some of the great GM ' do and make a trade for a guy perhaps Taylor Hall ... I would rather have him than vorcek or raffle and use Shultz or streit to go with vorcek or raffle to get him .. I still have faith because it's only June .. Lol .
    those only come with a better defense to put them in the situation ... it has nothing to do with offense

    we can improve in the shootout, but even the best players are around or under 40% ... which is still 6/10 misses

    i'm not entirely sure what you mean by your post, or how taylor hall would solve (insert what you think the issue is) without fixing the defense first

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by phillyeaglesman View Post
    You're right, let me rephrase: Since the salary cap has been implemented, the Flyers have been doing it wrong. They've been operating under the same assumption: spend to the cap, try to load up for a Cup run, don't worry about the farm system.


    It's easy pre-cap era to be a consistent contender when you have the money the Flyers possess. That's not building a team.

    "Managing a Cup run" isn't how you sustain success. How Hextall is building this team is how a team should be built.

    In terms of your argument of choosing to keep Streit and Read and trading for Umberger:

    a) I guess I have to repeat, the off-season just started 3 days ago, so to say he's chosen to do anything other than draft players is premature at best.

    b) Streit is due a $2M signing bonus on July 1st of this year, so if you actually believed a team was going to trade for him before that signing bonus was allocated, you were kidding yourself. No team in their right mind would trade for him before July 1st.

    c) Since when is trading Read something that has to happen? I wouldn't mind it, but to throw him into the same conversation as Streit and worse, Umberger, is unwarranted.

    d) Trading for Umberger was probably the worst move Hextall has made to this point, and in the grand scheme of things, it isn't really that bad. He took a bad contract in Hartnell and shortened it to 3 years in Umberger. Sure, he got next to nothing out of Umberger while Hartnell produced in CBJ. But Hartnell is now on the block in CBJ and it doesn't seem like many teams are banging down the door to take on that contract. So big picture, how bad of a deal was it really? I'd argue not all that bad.



    Whether you want to see it or not, Hextall is doing things the right way, and he's done a lot to get this team on the right track given what he was left to work with by Holmgren.
    For what its worth, trading Hartnell got us Anthony Salinitri and Mikhail Vorobyov in the draft. Not household names now but we'll see.


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