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  1. #1
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    2014 Off-Season Discussion

    Here is what I would like to see addressed going into this off-season:
    First I would let Timonen walk unless he is signing for 4.5 or less. So I am just going to assume he will retire or move on. I also think Luke Schenn played a great playoffs, and I think I have changed my mind and would like to keep him. Along with that, I think Brayden Schenn is also held onto.

    To get a top pairing Defenseman, I am wondering if you can trade Coburn, Laughton, 2nd for Byfuglein. I also like to move on from Grossman. I am also wondering if a team would take Lecavalier without having to take money back. I think our 5th d-man spot should go to Gustefsson. It's about time to see if he can make the next step, and the 6th spot should be one of our young guys that prove worthy out of camp.

    I would like to sign Gaborik to add a bit of speed and top-end scoring, add Deryk Engelland as a 7th D-man that can also add toughness, and add a quality back-up like Greiss.

    Hartnell 4.75- Giroux 8.275- Voracek 4.25
    Gaborik 6.5- Schenn 2.5- Simmonds 3.975
    Raffl 1.1- Couturier 1.75- Read 3.625
    Akeson .95- Cousins .812- Rinaldo .75

    Byfuglein 5.25-MacDonald 5
    Streit 5.25- Schenn 3.6
    Gustefsson 1- Konan/Gostisbere/Morin/Hagg/Alt/Lauridsen .9

    Mason 4.1
    Greiss 1.5

    Extra Skaters:
    Engelland .75
    Rosehill .675

    Cap Space: 4.2 million Give or take 2-3 million depending on how much Greiss/Schenn/Gaborik Sign for. If not Gaborik then Vanek or Moulsson. We need a speedy LWer.
    Last edited by Youarewrong; 05-01-2014 at 11:26 AM.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  2. #2
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    This offseason: find new homes for both Schenns, Coburn, Lecavalier, and don't re-sign Kimo (if he decides not to retire). Rebuild the defense around the ex-Islanders (duh). Brayden Schenn's good enough to be a trade chip, Luke is just God-awful and has to go - James vanRiemsdyk was never missed more than the last two weeks. They need a 40 goal scorer, desperately. PLEASE, NO MORE CONVERTING CENTERS TO WINGS!!!

    I appreciate that Luke Schenn improved, but he is slow, frequently holds on to the puck too long, can't clear the zone, and can't pass. Other than that he's great! Brayden Schenn had a better year than last, and I'd be more hesitant to do so, but I believe he needs to be moved at the right price.
    Echoing what so many others have said - Lecavalier never fit from day 1.
    Kimo had a very good run, essentially replacing Desjardins. Now it is his turn to pass the torch to Streit.
    I think Coburn was terrible in that series. He seemed to be on the ice for every goal, the pass into Hall Gill's skates almost cost me a television. Despite that I still think he'll be back.

    For the love of god, find a G.D. sniper!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaFrank View Post
    This[/url] offseason: find new homes for both Schenns, Coburn, Lecavalier, and don't re-sign Kimo (if he decides not to retire). Rebuild the defense around the ex-Islanders (duh). Brayden Schenn's good enough to be a trade chip, Luke is just God-awful and has to go - James vanRiemsdyk was never missed more than the last two weeks. They need a 40 goal scorer, desperately. PLEASE, NO MORE CONVERTING CENTERS TO WINGS!!!

    I appreciate that Luke Schenn improved, but he is slow, frequently holds on to the puck too long, can't clear the zone, and can't pass. Other than that he's great! Brayden Schenn had a better year than last, and I'd be more hesitant to do so, but I believe he needs to be moved at the right price.
    Echoing what so many others have said - Lecavalier never fit from day 1.
    Kimo had a very good run, essentially replacing Desjardins. Now it is his turn to pass the torch to Streit.
    I think Coburn was terrible in that series. He seemed to be on the ice for every goal, the pass into Hall Gill's skates almost cost me a television. Despite that I still think he'll be back.

    For the love of god, find a G.D. sniper!!!
    No offense Frank but what games were you watching? Both Schenns played well. Luke turned the puck over just as much as Coburn, and MacD if not less, he looked comfortable on the pinch, and he cleaned up on the backcheck. Brayden isnt going anywhere, period. The onlt way Coburn goes is if we get a top 10 defenseman in a trade, he didnt play well in the last few games but he is still our best defenseman. Kimmo is probably gonna retire or give it a shot with a contender. We need a pure goal scorer to pair with Jake and G, I agree.

    I think we should trade up and draft this Jake Virtanen kid. Very quick, can score, 6'0" 200lbs, right handed shot, perfect for the first line. Probably will be go top 5. Definitely top 10.

    Jake Virtanen 2013-2014 WHL Highlights: http://youtu.be/UpbmydIO1aY
    Last edited by BaddNewz; 05-01-2014 at 12:40 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaddNewz View Post
    Jake Virtanen 2013-2014 WHL Highlights: http://youtu.be/UpbmydIO1aYQUOTE=Flo...;28412152]This offseason: find new homes for both Schenns, Coburn, Lecavalier, and don't re-sign Kimo (if he decides not to retire). Rebuild the defense around the ex-Islanders (duh). Brayden Schenn's good enough to be a trade chip, Luke is just God-awful and has to go - James vanRiemsdyk was never missed more than the last two weeks. They need a 40 goal scorer, desperately. PLEASE, NO MORE CONVERTING CENTERS TO WINGS!!!

    I appreciate that Luke Schenn improved, but he is slow, frequently holds on to the puck too long, can't clear the zone, and can't pass. Other than that he's great! Brayden Schenn had a better year than last, and I'd be more hesitant to do so, but I believe he needs to be moved at the right price.
    Echoing what so many others have said - Lecavalier never fit from day 1.
    Kimo had a very good run, essentially replacing Desjardins. Now it is his turn to pass the torch to Streit.
    I think Coburn was terrible in that series. He seemed to be on the ice for every goal, the pass into Hall Gill's skates almost cost me a television. Despite that I still think he'll be back.

    For the love of god, find a G.D. sniper!!!
    No offense Frank but what games were you watching? Both Schenns played well. Luke turned the puck over just as much as Coburn, and MacD if not less, he looked comfortable on the pinch, and he cleaned up on the backcheck. Brayden isnt going anywhere, period. The onlt way Coburn goes is if we get a top 10 defenseman in a trade, he didnt play well in the last few games but he is still our best defenseman. Kimmo is probably gonna retire or give it a shot with a contender. We need a pure goal scorer to pair with Jake and G, I agree.

    I think we should trade up and draft this Jake Virtanen kid. Very quick, can score, 6'0" 200lbs, right handed shot, perfect for the first line. Probably will be go top 5. Definitely top 10.

    Jake Virtanen 2013-2014 WHL Highlights: http://youtu.be/UpbmydIO1aY
    I think Luke Schenn was a great defenseman this series, and ever since getting MacDonald has been very consistant. He is still young in terms of D-men. I'm going to keep him. I agree to let Kimmo walk, unless he signs for 4.5 or less.

    I also agree with a sniper. One that plays LW. Gaborik or Vanek would be ideal in UFA, but I would settle for Moulson. I wonder what it would take to get Byfuglein and Kane from Winnipeg. Schenn, Schenn, Laughton, Gostisbere? Not a terrible idea.

    Kane-Giroux-Vorcek
    Hartnell-Lecavalier-Simmonds
    Raffl-Couturier-Read
    Akeson-Cousins-Rinaldo

    Byfuglein-MacDonald
    Streit-Coburn
    Gustefsson-Lauridsen

    Mason
    Greiss
    Last edited by Youarewrong; 05-01-2014 at 11:41 AM.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

  5. #5
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    _____ G Jake
    Akeson Couts Read
    Raffl Laughton Simmonds
    Rinaldo Hall ______

    Streit _______
    Kimmo Coburn
    Gust Macdonald

    Mason
    _______

    Gone Vinny, Hartnell, Grossmann, B Schenn, L Schenn, Downie.

    Find a LW sniper for the first line and someone to pair with Streit as the #1 D line. Hopefully Kimmo comes back at a reasonable cost. Have an open competition for the last spot on the 4th line. Sign a vet to play behind Mason.
    Last edited by lbz88; 05-01-2014 at 12:04 PM. Reason: spacing

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaddNewz View Post
    No offense Frank but what games were you watching? Both Schenns played well. Luke turned the puck over just as much as Coburn, and MacD if not less, he looked comfortable on the pinch, and he cleaned up on the backcheck. Brayden isnt going anywhere, period.
    None taken. I don't like Luke Schenn, didn't like him in Toronto, don't like him on the Flyers. I'd be shocked if I'm alone on this. I disagree that he was great in this series.

    One of the most noticeable differences between the Rangers and Flyers to me was the Rangers crisp passing, and the Flyers constantly missing their passes leading to offsides, icings and turnovers. Luke Schenn and Coburn were the biggest culprits. The passing from the defensemen was attrocious, that includes Coburn and MacDonald and Grossman. Clearing the zone was also a universal issue. Timonen was what he is, steady, smart, but unspectacular. Streit was good, solid and steady. I'm in favor of overhauling the 2/3 of the blue line, but know that is unrealistic.

    Brayden was okay, and I don't think I said otherwise. I wouldn't be pissed if he were on the team next year, but think he has more value as a trade chip. I don't want to trade Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, or Couturier. I think Lecavalier can be moved, but for what value? Hartnell can't be moved. After that what trade chips are there? Read won't fetch the return that B.Schenn would. Adam Hall? Rinaldo? Akeson - I'd like to see more of him, actually - but as a trade chip?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbz88 View Post
    _____ G Jake
    Akeson Couts Read
    Raffl Laughton Simmonds
    Rinaldo Hall ______

    Streit _______
    Kimmo Coburn
    Gust Macdonald

    Mason
    _______

    Gone Vinny, Hartnell, Grossmann, B Schenn, L Schenn, Downie.

    Find a LW sniper for the first line and someone to pair with Streit as the #1 D line. Hopefully Kimmo comes back at a reasonable cost. Have an open competition for the last spot on the 4th line. Sign a vet to play behind Mason.
    Why is eveyone on the Brayden Schenn is a bust train? This season was his FIRST full 82 game season and he put up 20 goals. Not every player is Nathan MacKinnon and shoots out the gate. Give Schenn time to develop. He is scoring 20-20 against 2nd line competition. Its not shabby, and not worth giving up on him. As for Luke, last season he was a beast. He seemed to regress earlier in the season when Berube changed the system, but has been very solid since then. Will he ever be a top 10 NHL d-man. Probably not, but he earns his cap hit plus some, and is only 24 with room to grow.

    Unless the package is for a top NHL defenseman plus, I'm not moving the Schenn Bros.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

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    I'm not giving up on him. I think it's easier to move both Schenn's to get a 1st line winger or a 1st line D man. I don't think our D would be good enough with Kimmo, Coburn, Streit, Macdonald, Schenn, Gust. If we could sign a FA LW then I'd say keep him.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaFrank View Post
    None taken. I don't like Luke Schenn, didn't like him in Toronto, don't like him on the Flyers. I'd be shocked if I'm alone on this. I disagree that he was great in this series.

    One of the most noticeable differences between the Rangers and Flyers to me was the Rangers crisp passing, and the Flyers constantly missing their passes leading to offsides, icings and turnovers. Luke Schenn and Coburn were the biggest culprits. The passing from the defensemen was attrocious, that includes Coburn and MacDonald and Grossman. Clearing the zone was also a universal issue. Timonen was what he is, steady, smart, but unspectacular. Streit was good, solid and steady. I'm in favor of overhauling the 2/3 of the blue line, but know that is unrealistic.

    Brayden was okay, and I don't think I said otherwise. I wouldn't be pissed if he were on the team next year, but think he has more value as a trade chip. I don't want to trade Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux, or Couturier. I think Lecavalier can be moved, but for what value? Hartnell can't be moved. After that what trade chips are there? Read won't fetch the return that B.Schenn would. Adam Hall? Rinaldo? Akeson - I'd like to see more of him, actually - but as a trade chip?
    I believe Lecavalier can be moved. He said he wanted to play on the east coast. Given his position and the fact he is on 4th line, if he requests a trade I can see Montreal, Toronto, Islanders, Devils, and Nashville being interested. Now. If Vinny has been playing with medical issues all season, and our training staff is aware and believes he will recover in the off-season I have no issue keeping him if the idea is to move Schenn for defenseman.

    Hartnell is also not un-movable. Yes he has a NMC, so it would have to be to a team that he approves, but his salary is in line with his production. A team like Edmonton would be a good fit. They need bigger stronger players, and older leaders to go along with their top talent youth. And Hartnell is from the Edmonton area and would likely waive to go there. He could also be willing to waive for Nashville, Vancouver, Calgary, or Toronto.

    Brayden & Luke are also not your only trade chip. There is Laughton, Gostisbere, Hagg, Morin, plus Draft picks.

    I would also not move Read. He is the multi-tool. PP, PK, defensive forward, offensive forward.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lbz88 View Post
    I'm not giving up on him. I think it's easier to move both Schenn's to get a 1st line winger or a 1st line D man. I don't think our D would be good enough with Kimmo, Coburn, Streit, Macdonald, Schenn, Gust. If we could sign a FA LW then I'd say keep him.
    Check the market, there are none that tickles my fancy. You need a player that can score in the slot, in tight, and screen the goalie. Who fits that bill? I also dont feel it is worth making a trade for a top line sniping left winger because frankly we have other things to maybe focus on trading for a #1 guy on defense. Like I stated before id rather draft a guy like Virtanen who is just 18 and is a grown man on the ice and throw him in the fire, than go after guys like Vanek, Moulson, Gaborik, or Kane etc. We are not a contender and our window isnt closing so lets not go into this offseason with that "lets retool and win the cup" mentality. Lets stay competitive and continue to build from within, with youth as well as talent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youarewrong View Post
    I believe Lecavalier can be moved...

    Hartnell is also not un-movable. Yes he has a NMC, so it would have to be to a team that he approves, but his salary is in line with his production...

    I would also not move Read... He is the multi-tool. PP, PK, defensive forward, offensive forward.
    I agree that Vinny could be moved, I just question what the return for him would be. I'm not sure Hartnell will be too eager to waive his NMC, and again, I'm not sure what the return would be. My point is the Schenns are their best trade chips.

    I wouldn't want to trade Read either. I like him for the same reasons you mentioned.

    What does the Flyers list of draft picks look like? They've already traded one or two, haven't they? If I remember clearly they gave one for MacDonald, but got one back for Mez. Was there any other activity (from prior years that I've forgotten about)?

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    Nice to see some of you haven't lost sight of the fact that the draft is still a viable option.

    Flyers draft at 17. HIGHLY unlikely they find a kid at 17 that can play next year. They could always move up. Goldobin is another to keep an eye on. Little guy (5'11'') but skates like the wind and has a hell of a shot.

    This is a long way off. A lot can and will happen between now and the draft.

    Mobility/puck-moving on D
    speedy LW for 1st line
    backup for Mason


    This is about the gist of what they need for next season. That's really it. How they go about acquiring these things is a whole other story. No one can predict that this early.

    A lot riding on what Timonen decides to do and if they can move Lecavalier IMO. I think Grossmann and Lecavalier have to go, and I think many if not all would agree on that. I'd rather keep Luke Schenn, but if they move him for a puck mover with size, I'd be ok with that.

    **KEY NOTE** The Flyers need to get quicker, better puck-moving D men, but they don't all have to be small. You still need a combination of size, you just need to make sure those big guys can skate and/or move the puck.


    Should be an interesting off-season. Only a few changes to be made but a lot of different directions they can go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BaddNewz View Post
    Check the market, there are none that tickles my fancy. You need a player that can score in the slot, in tight, and screen the goalie. Who fits that bill? I also dont feel it is worth making a trade for a top line sniping left winger because frankly we have other things to maybe focus on trading for a #1 guy on defense. Like I stated before id rather draft a guy like Virtanen who is just 18 and is a grown man on the ice and throw him in the fire, than go after guys like Vanek, Moulson, Gaborik, or Kane etc. We are not a contender and our window isnt closing so lets not go into this offseason with that "lets retool and win the cup" mentality. Lets stay competitive and continue to build from within, with youth as well as talent.
    Why are we not a contendor? Our top players are just entering their prime... Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenns, Couturier, Mason.... He have good solid vets Hartnell, Lecavalier, Striet, Coburn, MacDonald. What they need to do is address IMO 2 things...

    1) Top scorer. Its nice to have 7 guys that can score 20 goals. Its better to have 1 guy that can score 40, and 5 others that can score 20. That 40 goal scorer will draw a lot of focus off Giroux, or Giroux will draw a lot of focus off him.

    2) Either a Top Number 1 defenseman OR really good depth. If we can replace Timonen with like Andrei Markov or Niskanen and Replace Grossmann with Gustefsson that would give us good mobile defense top to bottom.
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

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    posted this in the roster/ trade thread before I saw this. thought id move it over.



    My ideal offseason.
    OUT:
    Emery
    Bradyen Schenn
    Luke Schenn
    Scott Laughton
    KIMO
    Grossman/amac/streit (I know hard to trade guys, but just get me a pick. idc. id prefer one of the isles to traded. but likely grossman would be the one, 2nd or 3rd in return (id hope)
    vinny would also need moved, prospect, draft pick idc. get him out.

    IN:
    Elliot/vokoun/dubnyk/Nabokov
    PK SUBBAN
    Orpik
    Paul Stasney

    so from the back out we look like this:
    MASON
    vet backup

    PK SUBBAN-Brayden Coburn
    Brooks Orpik- Mark Streit
    AMAC/Grossman-Ghost Bear/Gus/manning/hagg/morin/oli laur... whoever wins the spot out of camp.

    93-28-17
    19-stasney-42
    24-14-12
    ..-18-...

    I think simmer moving with jake and g would be enough speed, while still providing grit, and net presence, and G's body guard. they click on the pp so let them do it ES as well. moving akeson up to the 2nd line allows him in a more offensive role, while allowing the third line to find another solid two way guy (raffl FA whoever). stasney, is a quality top 6 center, who ive always loved, that has already had a long dispute over this contract. plus if you move brayden. id rather someone not named vinny in that spot.

    find two vets, or a kid or two for the fourth line, the only one I want back is adam hall. RH center.. +50% facoffs. Need one of those type of guys.

    the goalies are simple emery will be one year slower, and that REALLY worries me. bring in someone a little higher... ceiling?

    defense, simple idea yet very unlikely. we need a #1 guy/puckmover. pk fits, and is rfa. the schenns+ laughton +a 1st or two, while offering him a ridiculous offer sheet 8m+/year. could make it possible... doubt it but possible.. Orpik.. UFA, d core is undersized, and from what ive seen is the only bigger type dman available that is a top 4 guy. moving amac would be ideal, that was a reach of a contract that we will regret for years to come if berube cant teach him where, when and how to pass out of his zone. if amac cant be moved grossman has to be for cap relief. if young guys don't look ready for next year and 6/7 spots, try hard for strallman or niskannen, either would be awesome 3rd pair guys with 2nd pair upside + RH shots.

    so simply put. I would look to land ELITE dman. without moving claude, jake, simmer, couts ,or read (who I think are the core of this team moving forward.) if you can land one, while keeping those guys I think you have to pull the trigger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    posted this in the roster/ trade thread before I saw this. thought id move it over.



    My ideal offseason.
    OUT:
    Emery
    Bradyen Schenn
    Luke Schenn
    Scott Laughton
    KIMO
    Grossman/amac/streit (I know hard to trade guys, but just get me a pick. idc. id prefer one of the isles to traded. but likely grossman would be the one, 2nd or 3rd in return (id hope)
    vinny would also need moved, prospect, draft pick idc. get him out.

    IN:
    Elliot/vokoun/dubnyk/Nabokov
    PK SUBBAN
    Orpik
    Paul Stasney

    so from the back out we look like this:
    MASON
    vet backup

    PK SUBBAN-Brayden Coburn
    Brooks Orpik- Mark Streit
    AMAC/Grossman-Ghost Bear/Gus/manning/hagg/morin/oli laur... whoever wins the spot out of camp.

    93-28-17
    19-stasney-42
    24-14-12
    ..-18-...

    I think simmer moving with jake and g would be enough speed, while still providing grit, and net presence, and G's body guard. they click on the pp so let them do it ES as well. moving akeson up to the 2nd line allows him in a more offensive role, while allowing the third line to find another solid two way guy (raffl FA whoever). stasney, is a quality top 6 center, who ive always loved, that has already had a long dispute over this contract. plus if you move brayden. id rather someone not named vinny in that spot.

    find two vets, or a kid or two for the fourth line, the only one I want back is adam hall. RH center.. +50% facoffs. Need one of those type of guys.

    the goalies are simple emery will be one year slower, and that REALLY worries me. bring in someone a little higher... ceiling?

    defense, simple idea yet very unlikely. we need a #1 guy/puckmover. pk fits, and is rfa. the schenns+ laughton +a 1st or two, while offering him a ridiculous offer sheet 8m+/year. could make it possible... doubt it but possible.. Orpik.. UFA, d core is undersized, and from what ive seen is the only bigger type dman available that is a top 4 guy. moving amac would be ideal, that was a reach of a contract that we will regret for years to come if berube cant teach him where, when and how to pass out of his zone. if amac cant be moved grossman has to be for cap relief. if young guys don't look ready for next year and 6/7 spots, try hard for strallman or niskannen, either would be awesome 3rd pair guys with 2nd pair upside + RH shots.

    so simply put. I would look to land ELITE dman. without moving claude, jake, simmer, couts ,or read (who I think are the core of this team moving forward.) if you can land one, while keeping those guys I think you have to pull the trigger.
    Too much team change. I think you can pry Byfuglein out of Winnipeg for Coburn, Laughton, and a 2nd round pick. Maybe a 1st round pick. Winnipeg is in need of a Culture change. If they wanted to move Kane and Byfuglien I would give them Both Schenns, Cousins or Akeson, and either Hagg or Gostisbere. We could litterally kill the 2 needs that we would have in 1 blow. But then we would need a second line center. Another team that may be making a culture change is LA. I wonder what it would take to get Jeff Carter back...Laughton, and a 1st.

    Kane-Giroux-Voracek
    Hartnell-Carter-Simmonds
    Raffl-Couturier-Read
    McGinn-Cousins-Rinaldo
    Rosehill

    Byfuglein-Coburn
    MacDonald-Streit
    Gustefsson-Alt
    Engelland

    Mason
    Greiss
    "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.", "The circle is now complete. When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master.", "I find your lack of faith disturbing.", "I can feel your anger... it gives you focus, it makes you stronger!"

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