Ike Davis vs Justin Smoak

[Jack of Blades]

I'd take Smoak anyday. No homer.

[Nymfan87]

I'd take Smoak anyday. No homer.

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/video/pl...79118&c_id=nym

Ike Davis's defense and offensive numbers (same HR's after tonight, way higher BA, SLG%, OBP) would like to disagree.

[SaltyLover]

Smoak has a cooler name so I'll give him the edge.

[zzConflict]

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/video/pl...79118&c_id=nym

Ike Davis's defense and offensive numbers (same HR's after tonight, way higher BA, SLG%, OBP) would like to disagree.

Smoak has a (very) slightly better BB%, far superior K% (19.6 vs. 29.2), far superior ISO (.261 vs. .146), only Smoak is being killed by a low BABIP (.171), whereas Davis is riding high at .382.

Taking a quick look at wOBAr's shows:
Smoak- .380
Davis- .352

Better defense? Please don't tell me you're quoting 15 games of UZR or ONE catch to make that opinion.

And all this is assuming that we care about this year's numbers in a comparison, when really we should be trying to project what they will do over the next 10+ years. I think both players are going to be good, but I'm easily taking Smoak, he has the tools to be elite.

[cambovenzi]

Smoak has a (very) slightly better BB%, far superior K% (19.6 vs. 29.2), far superior ISO (.261 vs. .146), only Smoak is being killed by a low BABIP (.171), whereas Davis is riding high at .382.

Taking a quick look at wOBAr's shows:
Smoak- .380
Davis- .352

Better defense? Please don't tell me you're quoting 15 games of UZR or ONE catch to make that opinion.

And all this is assuming that we care about this year's numbers in a comparison, when really we should be trying to project what they will do over the next 10+ years. I think both players are going to be good, but I'm easily taking Smoak, he has the tools to be elite.

The difference is Davis has actually been performing, while your formula thinks smoak should be performing better. its a little early to be using a stat like wOBAr for rookies isnt it? considering they have no prior MLB stats to refer to.

OPS and wOBA are significantly in Davis' favor so far.

[zzConflict]

The difference is Davis has actually been performing, while your formula thinks smoak should be performing better. its a little early to be using a stat like wOBAr for rookies isnt it? considering they have no prior MLB stats to refer to.

OPS and wOBA are significantly in Davis' favor so far.

I realise that you are a Mets fan and so therefore have this need for Davis to be better than Smoak so I understand your clouded vision. Whether you care to acknowledge it or not, luck plays a big part in baseball, and Davis has been lucky whereas Smoak has been terribly unlucky in their short MLB careers to date. When regression to the mean kicks in (and believe me, it will), Smoak will, in all likelihood, come out as the better player, and this is echoed by wOBAr.

[Sick Of It All]

Smoak has a (very) slightly better BB%, far superior K% (19.6 vs. 29.2), far superior ISO (.261 vs. .146), only Smoak is being killed by a low BABIP (.171), whereas Davis is riding high at .382.

Taking a quick look at wOBAr's shows:
Smoak- .380
Davis- .352

Better defense? Please don't tell me you're quoting 15 games of UZR or ONE catch to make that opinion.

And all this is assuming that we care about this year's numbers in a comparison, when really we should be trying to project what they will do over the next 10+ years. I think both players are going to be good, but I'm easily taking Smoak, he has the tools to be elite.

You need to update those numbers because their are different now.

wOBA
Davis .416
Smoak .319

ISO
Davis .255
Smoak .240

BB%
Davis 14.8
Smoak 13.6

SO%
Davis 29.4
Smoak 18.4

...and as far as projecting what their numbers will be? who knows, but the point of this thread when I made was that Smoak was not that much superior to Davis as scouts and rankings made it out to be.

[zzConflict]

but the point of this thread when I made was that Smoak was not that much superior to Davis as scouts and rankings made it out to be.

Based on what? Your Mets bias and some minor league numbers?

[jetsfan89]

Based on what? Your Mets bias and some minor league numbers?

so you happened to ignore those stats that sick put out?

[Sick Of It All]

Based on what? Your Mets bias and some minor league numbers?

Who is being biased here?

I never said that Davis was better, read through the damn thread.

...and yes performance on the field matters because that is what the game is about. Projections are great, but they are not facts, they are not givens, just because a guy is projected to be more productive does not mean it will be so period.

We can go more by what guys have done on the field and so far they have almost equal numbers in the minors and Davis has out performed him on the majors, so cry about projections all you want fact are that their stats so far in the pros show that Smoak in no way is far superior than Davis period.

[Sick Of It All]

so you happened to ignore those stats that sick put out?

Conveniently, he does, when they favored Smoak he was very glad to throw them out there and now that they don't he ignores them and goes back to call somebody bias because that is all he got now. Now he will go to what scouts project and so on to try and make his point valid.

Like i showed and said from the 1st post, Smoak is better, but Davis is not that far behind.

[zzConflict]

Based on what? Your Mets bias and some minor league numbers?

so you happened to ignore those stats that sick put out?

Read much?

[zzConflict]

Conveniently, he does, when they favored Smoak he was very glad to throw them out there and now that they don't he ignores them and goes back to call somebody bias because that is all he got now. Now he will go to what scouts project and so on to try and make his point valid.

Like i showed and said from the 1st post, Smoak is better, but Davis is not that far behind.

15 games worth of data is meaningless. It tells us almost nothing about what they will do long term. I was just using stats to show that Davis was getting lucky because Nymfan87 was claiming that Davis is better base on the numbers, but really, they're misleading.

[Nymfan87]

Sick posted major league numbers, not minor league numbers. Davis hit 2 HR's last night and made a spectacular play in the field. Davis is killing Smoak in wOBA and doesn't play in a crazy hitter's park like Smoak does.

[zzConflict]

Sick posted major league numbers, not minor league numbers.

It's not possible for him to have posted Major league numbers at the beginning of this thread before either of them had played in the majors, which is what he was referring to here:

but the point of this thread when I made was that Smoak was not that much superior to Davis as scouts and rankings made it out to be.

and I was replying to here:

Based on what? Your Mets bias and some minor league numbers?

Davis hit 2 HR's last night and made a spectacular play in the field. Davis is killing Smoak in wOBA and doesn't play in a crazy hitter's park like Smoak does.

Again. It's 15 games. It's near meaningless long term.