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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    At least three years of data for it to be truly accurate. Five years is better.
    Cool, thank you. It's just a shame that some people might only take into account a stat like that and this that Beltran had a horrible year defensively.
    Props to MetsLegacy

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilson21 View Post
    Probably is some bias but ask any fan who watches the Twins on a consistent basis and Morneau has gotten better and better at "scoops". He has been tremendous at saving errors for the rest of the infield. Plus like other SABR stats, this one has flaws and I think it's much harder to gauge how well a player is at "scoops" than any other defensive stat.
    Then you're definitely looking at major bias. Remember, this is comparing Morneau to other first basemen at handling throws. That's how a WOWY method works. So while he might be "good," there's better.
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    Sean Smith did a study on "scoops" made by first basemen- the usual suspects were at the top of the list (Todd Helton, Travis Lee, Keith Hernandez, John Olerud, J.T. Snow, etc.) and the ones you would expect to be at the bottom of the list (Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas, Carlos Delgado, etc.). Morneau was a -4 runs per 1000 throws. The only player near the bottom of this list that I'd disagree with is Don Mattingly.

    This study was done up until 2007, so I guess this begs the question as to whether or not Morneau has improved substantially over the course of 1.5 seasons or if there's some sort of error in the data processing. Or, if there's bias on your behalf.
    Where is Paul Konerko on this list?
    Quote Originally Posted by Impaler View Post
    Some posters like yourself don't understand how a single is better then a home run,
    #TWTW

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    Then you're definitely looking at major bias. Remember, this is comparing Morneau to other first basemen at handling throws. That's how a WOWY method works. So while he might be "good," there's better.
    Yeah but you said the study was done up until 2007 so I'm figuring his numbers wouldn't be as bad as they were then compared to other first basemen (hence the improvement). Over the past couple years he has seemed to improve at "scoops" but what I took from what you said is that the "scoop" data has not been updated since 2007 so I'm guessing that his numbers would be better now than they were 2 years ago.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDIsMyGod23 View Post
    Where is Paul Konerko on this list?
    Exactly a 0.
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    Exactly a 0.
    Is 0 like 100 for OPS+?
    Quote Originally Posted by Impaler View Post
    Some posters like yourself don't understand how a single is better then a home run,
    #TWTW

  7. #22
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    It just means he's average, he saves no more or less than the average 1B.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilson21 View Post
    Yeah but you said the study was done up until 2007 so I'm figuring his numbers wouldn't be as bad as they were then compared to other first basemen (hence the improvement). Over the past couple years he has seemed to improve at "scoops" but what I took from what you said is that the "scoop" data has not been updated since 2007 so I'm guessing that his numbers would be better now than they were 2 years ago.
    Right....

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwilson21 View Post
    Yeah but you said the study was done up until 2007 so I'm figuring his numbers wouldn't be as bad as they were then compared to other first basemen (hence the improvement). Over the past couple years he has seemed to improve at "scoops" but what I took from what you said is that the "scoop" data has not been updated since 2007 so I'm guessing that his numbers would be better now than they were 2 years ago.
    Morneau was, on average, -2.2 runs saved over that span of time. You mean to tell me that over the course of one and a half seasons he's become a plus defender?
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  10. #25
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    Because, like most sabermetrics, its flawed.

    Our QB > Yours

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam brett favre View Post
    Because, like most sabermetrics, its flawed.
    Thanks for your input. I think if you understood the methodology you'd see things differently.
    My blog- analysis of the San Francisco Giants, Baseball, and Sabermetrics.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam brett favre View Post
    Because, like most sabermetrics, its flawed.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by C1Bman88 View Post
    Morneau was, on average, -2.2 runs saved over that span of time. You mean to tell me that over the course of one and a half seasons he's become a plus defender?
    For "scoops" or just total defense?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam brett favre View Post
    Because, like most sabermetrics, its flawed.
    Yet you can't explain why it is flawed

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam brett favre View Post
    Because, like most sabermetrics, its flawed.
    Not as flawed as your logic.

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